Jpowers

Not the new Donald Trump Presidency thread

31,385 posts in this topic

11 minutes ago, bdog 29 said:

Stop with the hyperbole. It's clown **** and makes you look like you don't have a real argument. No one in Canada or Scandinavia is waiting months or years for an MRI. Maybe a few weeks but if I needed an MRI right now, my doctor's office probably wouldn't have an opening anyway.

What isn't hyperbole is that Americans are paying hundreds of dollars for routine procedures and people are going into bankruptcy because of medical bills. Policies have made it worse but the crux of the issue is a for-profit healthcare system. Everyone who knows anything about healthcare policy knows that single payer is the best option. The only question is how we get there. 

The only people who disagree are those who haven't thought about the issue for more than two seconds and think capitalism=America=good.

basically he's accepted and internalized the axiom that medically-trained triage is somehow a worst determiner for care than money, for no other reason than ideology.

he assumes the "free market" will just solve health care absent of any societal intervention, and that when the market tosses out the indigent charities will magically be able to pick up the slack. 

the bottom line is that the market doesn't care how many people it covers. it doesn't care about the quality of coverage, and it doesn't care about people unable to participate in the market. capital cares about nothing but profit, and it fundamentally will not be able to produce the same quality of care to all people as a public system designed to deliver health care to all people regardless of income or wealth.

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1 minute ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

Just bring up South Korea or West Germany as examples and they have no answers.

Can we have the government programs and social welfare those countries have?

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15 minutes ago, The Legendary SB said:

It's true.

Just like my speech about being good consumers. 

If you don't like what this country stands for go somewhere that fits your ideals more.  You have a choice.  Use it.

my choice is to fight to make my country better for all of its people.

socialism or barbarism.

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Just now, The Legendary SB said:

 

Monopolies should be broken up.

If they are not than it's not a true capitalist system.  

Please name a true capitalist system where monopolies didn't develop.

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Just now, Psychic Gibbon said:

Can we have the government programs and social welfare those countries have?

While you're at it the populations too. I mean considering your policies you would have gladly chosen to live in NoKo and East Germany.

To that, I would have to disagree with you.

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Just now, The Legendary SB said:

Pushing Your Windows App to the Top â User Camp â Medium

I said that because by-and-large minorities don't believe in American Exceptionalism. America to us has never been exceptional and it still isn't.

But I took that out because I figured it was inflammatory and would let you miss the whole point of my post. And lo and behold, that's where we ended up. I blame myself.

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Just now, Gritzblitz 2.0 said:

In short, "love it or leave it" is about the sh*ttiest thing a citizen of a free democracy can say to another. 

Also, Trump didn’t say “love it or leave it’.  He originally said “go back to where you came from” to US citizens, which has even deeper racist roots than “love it or leave it”.  

We can’t let the right get by with shifting what he actually said.

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1 hour ago, The Legendary SB said:

You cannot go fully out of pocket right away as costs are currently insane.

If it were up to me my goal would be:

1. Make insurance only for catastrophic health issues.  Ie...multiple day hospital stay or bad car accident or something.

2. Since it is only for "catastrophic" health issues, premiums are much lower.

3. All outpatient services are out of pocket.  Ie...people would shop for doctors for check ups and minor procedures.  

You just described Singapore's system roughly. 

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7 minutes ago, bdog 29 said:

Lol ok chief. Go ahead and point out one capitalist healthcare system which has lower costs and better outcomes than the socialist ones of Europe and Canada. 

American Exceptionalism really did a number on a whole generation of people. Has dudes ignoring all empirical evidence and statistics to support a failing healthcare system. I'm all for capitalism in most industries but healthcare by definition is one in which it won't work. The only way it will is if we allow those who can't afford it to die. But you're too much of a ***** to concede that you'd be cool with that.

this is what steve will never ever address. he will insist on the fantasy in his head being better than public health care systems that have existed for decades, because he did not reason himself into believing in our lord and savior the free market, it was akin to a religious conversion. 

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2 minutes ago, GEORGIAfan said:

You just described Singapore's system roughly. 

Most of Singapore is covered through their public healthcare system so what Steve is describing does not align with that.

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1 minute ago, The Legendary SB said:

Not gonna happen within my lifetime at least.  

You'd have to overturn the US Constitution, etc...  Not gonna happen.  

8 minutes ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

Please name a true capitalist system where monopolies didn't develop.

Please answer the question.

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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, achilles return said:

this is what steve will never ever address. he will insist on the fantasy in his head being better than public health care systems that have existed for decades, because he did not reason himself into believing in our lord and savior the free market, it was akin to a religious conversion. 

The Cult of Capitalism really is a religion. People put faith a nearly spiritual faith in the "market".

"How will costs go down and quality go up?"

"I don't know but the market works all things out for good" 

They speak of the free market as some type of omniscient entity which ultimately works for our good, even if we don't understand how. It's really quite scary. That weirdo that started Turning Point USA had a meltdown at some conference a while back where he yelled, "I live capitalism every day of my life" like a religious person who'd just been accused of blasphemy. It makes sense when you think of how they bow to the alter of capitalism.

3 minutes ago, The Legendary SB said:

Not gonna happen within my lifetime at least.  

You'd have to overturn the US Constitution, etc...  Not gonna happen.  

Wait, does the Constitution say that America is and will forever be capitalist? I must have missed that. George Washington must be turning over in his grave knowing that the government provides socialists services like road maintenance. 

Everyday we stray further and further from Capitalism's light.

Edited by bdog 29

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Posted (edited)

33 minutes ago, The Legendary SB said:

Sounds like someone bought into the rhetoric.

 

@mdrake34 @Leon Troutsky@psychokiller@Jpowers @Serge @Psychic Gibbon yalls rhetoric over the years would you say I've bought into of your posts?

I'm not talking rhetoric @The Legendary SB I'm talking real world. We have people who can't pay to get the medicines they need. The cost is more than most charities and churches can absorb. The free market isn't going to make it more available because they don't make enough money to pay for it. And they can't go get a new job because there aren't Alot of jobs that pay that much in rural areas. And you can't move unless you want to be even more homeless them they are now. So your plan is well some folks are just gonna have to die until we can figure this out. My plan is get everyone the ability to get the medical attention they need do they don't die and we can tweak it as needed for the US. 

Which one of those sounds better?

Edited by T-Falcon

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Just because "Capitalism" by some "strange" coincidence" helped form the greatest most powerful nation on Earth?

Yeah, America is lucky like that...:lol:

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4 minutes ago, T-Falcon said:

@mdrake34 @Leon Troutsky@psychokiller @Jpowers @Sergehow much of yalls rhetoric over the years would you say I've bought into of your posts?

I'm not talking rhetoric @The Legendary SB I'm talking real world. We have people who can't pay to get the medicines they need. The cost is more than most charities and churches can absorb. The free market isn't going to make it more available because they don't make enough money to pay for it. And they can't go get a new job because there aren't Alot of jobs that pay that much in rural areas. And you can't move unless you want to be even more homeless them they are now. So your plan is well some folks are just gonna have to die until we can figure this out. My plan is get everyone the ability to get the medical attention they need do they don't die and we can tweak it as needed for the US. 

Which one of those sounds better?

Who the **** is psychokiller? Lol

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1 minute ago, T-Falcon said:

@mdrake34 @Leon Troutsky@psychokiller @Jpowers how much of take rhetoric over the years would you say I've bought into if your posts?

I'm not talking rhetoric @The Legendary SB I'm talking real world. We have people who can't pay to get the medicines they need. The cost is more than most charities and churches can absorb. The free market isn't going to make it more available because they don't make enough money to pay for it. And they can't go get a new job because there aren't Alot of jobs that pay that much in rural areas. And you can't move unless you want to be even more homeless them they are now. So your plan is well some folks are just gonna have to for until we can figure this out. My plan is get everyone the ability to get the medical attention they need do they don't die and we can tweak it as needed for the US. 

Which one of those sounds better?

You're like a good friend of mine. He's pretty hardcore Republican (less so since Trump) but even he realizes that our healthcare system doesn't work. When you look at how much we pay in taxes to Medicare plus what we and our employers pay in healthcare premiums, plus what we pay in deductibles, it's obvious that the money would be better spent if we just pooled it all and used it so that we could go to whatever provider we see fit.

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2 minutes ago, T-Falcon said:

@mdrake34 @Leon Troutsky@psychokiller @Jpowers how much of take rhetoric over the years would you say I've bought into if your posts?

I'm not talking rhetoric @The Legendary SB I'm talking real world. We have people who can't pay to get the medicines they need. The cost is more than most charities and churches can absorb. The free market isn't going to make it more available because they don't make enough money to pay for it. And they can't go get a new job because there aren't Alot of jobs that pay that much in rural areas. And you can't move unless you want to be even more homeless them they are now. So your plan is well some folks are just gonna have to for until we can figure this out. My plan is get everyone the ability to get the medical attention they need do they don't die and we can tweak it as needed for the US. 

Which one of those sounds better?

That's what the ACA was supposed to be. But when the gobmint gets involved by nature prices automatically go up.

Don't ask the them to fix what they already exacerbated.

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Just now, Jpowers said:

Who the **** is psychokiller? Lol

Lolol supposed to be psychic Gibbon I spit my drink out thanks

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