Jpowors

Not the new Donald Trump Presidency thread

56,241 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

He's personally financially involved with the countries involved with every single decision that he's made that has drawn scrutiny. He is absolutely compromised. What Woke posted was not whataboutism because it was not even apples and oranges, it was more like apples and tire irons. Nobody involved with any of it profited from it and that is without question. Trump is in bed with everybody that he's helping to the clear detriment of our country.

We made Jimmy Carter sale his peanut farm......I get your position. I'm not even arguing against it. 

 

Minus your position though...... it's not the same. It hasn't been the same. It never was the same.

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Just now, Jpowors said:

We made Jimmy Carter sale his peanut farm......I get your position. I'm not even arguing against it. 

 

Minus your position though...... it's not the same. It hasn't been the same. It never was the same.

We didn't make him do it. He did it because (unlike somebody) he wanted to make sure he avoided the appearance of impropriety. It was a controversy when Billy Beer was sold because Billy Carter was nobody without his connection to Jimmy. Compare and contrast Billy Carter's cash grab to that of Donny, Eric, Ivanka, Jared and Trump himself. I'd be surprised if Billy Carter netted $100 grand. And I'd be shocked if the lowest earning Trump has made less than $10 million with deals made since 2016. There is a reason why presidential candidates release their tax returns before primaries. Only a fool would vote for someone with something to hide. Full stop.

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4 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

1.The previous administration didn't let Russia invade the Ukraine.

2. You oversimplified Fast and Furious, but okay, I'm not digging into that.the big difference in all of this is that nothing that you listed went to the direct financial benefit of anyone involved in it. 

1. This is objectively false. Like bold face lie false.

2. You sure?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/documents-atf-used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations/

Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations

Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.

In Fast and Furious, ATF secretly encouraged gun dealers to sell to suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels to go after the "big fish." But ATF whistleblowers told CBS News and Congress it was a dangerous practice called "gunwalking," and it put thousands of weapons on the street. Many were used in violent crimes in Mexico. Two were found at the murder scene of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.

ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

 

Yes the Obama admin got people killed to manipulate gun legislation which is a political motivation for the left.

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@JayOzOne

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  • 6/26/2012

Scandal: The head of the House oversight panel suggests the real reason for the administration's invoking executive privilege in the Fast and Furious case is to hide proof that the operation was part of a push for gun control.

Defenders of President Obama's use of executive privilege to provide cover for Attorney General Eric Holder in the gun-running fiasco that resulted in the deaths of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and ICE Agent Jaime Zapata may dismiss it as just another conspiracy theory. But the suggestion by Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., that the deadly operation was conceived to advance the administration's gun-control agenda is quite plausible.

"Here's the real answer as to gun control," Issa said on ABC's "This Week": "We have email from people involved in this that are talking about using what they're finding here to support the — basically assault weapons — ban or greater reporting."

Scandal: The head of the House oversight panel suggests the real reason for the administration's invoking executive privilege in the Fast and Furious case is to hide proof that the operation was part of a push for gun control.

Defenders of President Obama's use of executive privilege to provide cover for Attorney General Eric Holder in the gun-running fiasco that resulted in the deaths of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and ICE Agent Jaime Zapata may dismiss it as just another conspiracy theory. But the suggestion by Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., that the deadly operation was conceived to advance the administration's gun-control agenda is quite plausible.

"Here's the real answer as to gun control," Issa said on ABC's "This Week": "We have email from people involved in this that are talking about using what they're finding here to support the — basically assault weapons — ban or greater reporting."

Issa was asked about the possible connection after comments he made at an NRA convention. "Could it be," he said on NRA News' "Cam & Company" program, "that what they really were thinking of was in fact to use this walking of guns in order to promote an assault weapons ban? Many think so. And they haven't come up with an explanation that would cause any of us not to agree."

Perhaps the answer is in the documents that Holder and Obama are risking much to hide. As we observed recently, the way Fast and Furious, the government's gun-running operation, was executed made no sense unless its intended purpose was to facilitate violence with U.S. weapons in the interests of pursuing the administration's gun-control agenda.

As Issa noted on "This Week," the Department of Justice announced on April 25, 2011, "right in the middle of the scandal," that it was requiring some 8,500 gun stores in Arizona, California, Texas and New Mexico to report individual purchases of multiple rifles of greater than .22 caliber by law-abiding American citizens to the ATF because such guns are "frequently recovered at violent crime scenes near the Southwest border."

Like the ATF-supplied guns found next to the body of Brian Terry?

Coincidence? We think not. On July 14, 2010, roughly five months before Agent Terry's murder, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix special agent in charge of Fast and Furious. "Bill," the email read, "can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time? We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun sales. Thanks."

A Jan. 24, 2011, email showed Newell saw it as an opportunity "to address (the) Multiple Sales on Long Guns issue." Chait emailed Newell that "this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of the case."

These documents, and perhaps others that have been withheld, show that Fast and Furious was intended not to interdict gun trafficking, but to make the administration's case for more gun control. According to Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, "There's plenty of evidence developing that the administration planned to use the tragedies of Fast and Furious as rationale to further their goals of a long gun reporting requirement."

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and others in the administration had been pushing the discredited line that 90% of guns seized in Mexico came from the U.S. as justification for stricter gun laws and reporting rules.

The final ****ing evidence that Fast and Furious was a gun-control plot just may be in the documents the administration is fast and furiously trying to hide.

Scandal: The head of the House oversight panel suggests the real reason for the administration's invoking executive privilege in the Fast and Furious case is to hide proof that the operation was part of a push for gun control.

Defenders of President Obama's use of executive privilege to provide cover for Attorney General Eric Holder in the gun-running fiasco that resulted in the deaths of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and ICE Agent Jaime Zapata may dismiss it as just another conspiracy theory. But the suggestion by Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., that the deadly operation was conceived to advance the administration's gun-control agenda is quite plausible.

"Here's the real answer as to gun control," Issa said on ABC's "This Week": "We have email from people involved in this that are talking about using what they're finding here to support the — basically assault weapons — ban or greater reporting."

Issa was asked about the possible connection after comments he made at an NRA convention. "Could it be," he said on NRA News' "Cam & Company" program, "that what they really were thinking of was in fact to use this walking of guns in order to promote an assault weapons ban? Many think so. And they haven't come up with an explanation that would cause any of us not to agree."

Perhaps the answer is in the documents that Holder and Obama are risking much to hide. As we observed recently, the way Fast and Furious, the government's gun-running operation, was executed made no sense unless its intended purpose was to facilitate violence with U.S. weapons in the interests of pursuing the administration's gun-control agenda.

As Issa noted on "This Week," the Department of Justice announced on April 25, 2011, "right in the middle of the scandal," that it was requiring some 8,500 gun stores in Arizona, California, Texas and New Mexico to report individual purchases of multiple rifles of greater than .22 caliber by law-abiding American citizens to the ATF because such guns are "frequently recovered at violent crime scenes near the Southwest border."

Like the ATF-supplied guns found next to the body of Brian Terry?

Coincidence? We think not. On July 14, 2010, roughly five months before Agent Terry's murder, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix special agent in charge of Fast and Furious. "Bill," the email read, "can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time? We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun sales. Thanks."

A Jan. 24, 2011, email showed Newell saw it as an opportunity "to address (the) Multiple Sales on Long Guns issue." Chait emailed Newell that "this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of the case."

These documents, and perhaps others that have been withheld, show that Fast and Furious was intended not to interdict gun trafficking, but to make the administration's case for more gun control. According to Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, "There's plenty of evidence developing that the administration planned to use the tragedies of Fast and Furious as rationale to further their goals of a long gun reporting requirement."

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and others in the administration had been pushing the discredited line that 90% of guns seized in Mexico came from the U.S. as justification for stricter gun laws and reporting rules.

The final ****ing evidence that Fast and Furious was a gun-control plot just may be in the documents the administration is fast and furiously trying to hide.

Fast And Furious Gun Control Plot Was Widely Known

Scandal: A drug enforcement agent says other agencies knew in 2009 about the Justice Department's gunrunning operation and even tried to interdict the weapons flow. And, yes, it was a gun-control plot.

 

The notion that Fast and Furious was a localized operation run out of the Phoenix office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives of which few, particularly the arguably clueless Attorney General Eric Holder, were aware continues to be exposed as the lie it is.

 

"In 2009, I became aware that ATF was walking guns," Tony Coulson, who was in charge of the Drug Enforcement Agency-Tucson during Operation Fast and Furious, said in a recent interview with Michel Marizco of the website Fronteras.

 

"I also learned that Homeland Security Investigations, then ICE, actually interceded on more than one occasion where they seized weapons at the ports of entry when they were heading southbound contrary to ATF's plans."

 

The statements by the now-retired Coulson confirm the testimony of ATF agents themselves that providing guns to Mexican drug cartels was intended, not accidental. "Allowing loads of weapons that we knew to be destined for criminals — this was the plan," John Dodson, an ATF agent, testified before the House Government Oversight Committee.

 

"It was so mandated," ATF agent Olindo James Casa said before the committee, adding that "on several occasions I personally requested to interdict or seize firearms, but I was always ordered to stand down and not to seize the firearms."

 

Coulson paints a picture not of a well-intentioned local program gone rogue, but of a operation widely known throughout the Obama administration, one deliberately intended to promote the need for gun control. Other agencies knew of the operation and tried to stop the flow of guns to Mexican criminals and drug cartels.

 

In the Fronteras interview, Coulson also claimed ATF knew that what has come to be known as the "90% lie" was a myth. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and others had been pushing the line that 90% of guns seized in Mexico came from the U.S.

 

"Among federal law enforcement, that became somewhat of a joke," Coulson said. "We all knew that was whatever weapons the Mexican government decided to follow or trace back to the U.S. and never took into account the weapons that came in from Central America, from other countries around the world."

 

This myth was behind the Justice Department announcement last April 25 that it was making 8,500 gun stores in Arizona, California, Texas and New Mexico report individual purchases of multiple rifles of greater than .22 caliber by law-abiding American citizens to the ATF because — get this — such guns are "frequently recovered at violent crime scenes near the Southwest border."

 

In the Fronteras interview, Coulson said that when he took the gun walking to his bosses in Phoenix, he was told the lead law enforcement official in Arizona — U.S. Attorney Dennis Burke — was already aware of it.

 

Burke, who has resigned, has long been a gun-ban architect for the Democratic Party and was behind the ineffectual 1994 "assault weapon" ban that expired in 2004.

 

Burke was also the former chief of staff for former Gov. Janet Napolitano for a number of years before she became the secretary of Homeland Security. She, as well as Eric Holder, have some explaining to do about what she knew and when she knew it.

 

As the lies and disinformation pile up, so does evidence that Fast and Furious was intended not to interdict gun trafficking, but make the administration's case for more gun control and infringement of our Second Amendment rights

Edited by Wokezone

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18 minutes ago, Wokezone said:

1. This is objectively false. Like bold face lie false.

2. You sure?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/documents-atf-used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations/

Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations

Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales.

In Fast and Furious, ATF secretly encouraged gun dealers to sell to suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels to go after the "big fish." But ATF whistleblowers told CBS News and Congress it was a dangerous practice called "gunwalking," and it put thousands of weapons on the street. Many were used in violent crimes in Mexico. Two were found at the murder scene of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.

ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

 

Yes the Obama admin got people killed to manipulate gun legislation which is a political motivation for the left.

Pretending anything that you posted is correct, (TL;DR) NO PRESIDENT HAS PERSONALLY PROFITED FROM THE DECISIONS HE'S MADE BEFORE DONALD TRUMP (well, other than **** Cheney). 

Let me go on record and state that literally every president has made absolutely reprehensible decisions that have ruined lives and made enemies for the country. They all have blood on their hands. Trump has the blood of Americans on his hands because he's made foreign policy decisions based on reasons that were more beneficial to him than they were to any contorted view of the national good.

Image result for trump tower istanbul

Trump Tower Istanbul

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Just now, JayOzOne said:

I might be full of ****. But hey, you started it.

Those are both verifiable facts we can prove. It's why Holder was held in contempt of congress and refused to go and the justice department refused to act. Because it was a plot involving the president, Holder, and intelligence agencies using Us weapons by coercing weapons stores to sell only to turn around and use the deaths of civilians and US citizens to pass gun legislation and manipulate the public for personal political gain .

Trump may get someone hurt releasing the wb name.  Obama got innocent people killed attempting to getbgun legislation passed for his side.

Trump and Obama are both going to have their people ignore congressional subpoenas. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, lostone said:

Woke should watch this weeks episode of South Park 

Haven't watched it in ages.  Last episode I watched was mongolians tearing down his city wall haha.

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14 minutes ago, Wokezone said:

Haven't watched it in ages.  Last episode I watched was mongolians tearing down his city wall haha.

It’s about the current transsexual debate

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24 minutes ago, Wokezone said:

Those are both verifiable facts we can prove. It's why Holder was held in contempt of congress and refused to go and the justice department refused to act. Because it was a plot involving the president, Holder, and intelligence agencies using Us weapons by coercing weapons stores to sell only to turn around and use the deaths of civilians and US citizens to pass gun legislation and manipulate the public for personal political gain .

Trump may get someone hurt releasing the wb name.  Obama got innocent people killed attempting to getbgun legislation passed for his side.

Trump and Obama are both going to have their people ignore congressional subpoenas. 

 

 

Red herrings. You're ignoring the fact that Trump is likely making decisions based on his personal interest, not the good of the US. I've said it three times and you pretend not to know what I'm talking about. I've noticed that about the right. When they don't have an answer, they try to change the subject. But we'll agree to disagree since we can't even have a discussion on the merits. To wit: I posted something about Trump's financial records being released and you said you didn't like it. When I wrote why it is in the nation's interest to know if the president is compromised, you wrote "Obama gave guns to cartels", which nobody has tried to suggest benefited him personally.

If you wanna play games with talking points and shiny objects, enjoy playing with yourself. But I should have cut this convo an hour ago. Night night.

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4 minutes ago, Wokezone said:

Of course it is 

You might actually want to watch.  This isn’t an insult to you.  You may not realize it, but I am more on your side of the debate than you think.

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1 minute ago, lostone said:

You might actually want to watch.  This isn’t an insult to you.  You may not realize it, but I am more on your side of the debate than you think.

I don't really have a side. A person can do to themselves or identify as whatever that's their business.  It only becomes my business when you try to force others to play along and pretend biology and anatomy isnt a thing.  That and physically mutilating, mentally damaging, and biologically manipulating the hormones In children. 

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44 minutes ago, lostone said:

You might actually want to watch.  This isn’t an insult to you.  You may not realize it, but I am more on your side of the debate than you think.

Rofl macho man 

lostone, Scrunchomarx and JDaveG like this

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13 minutes ago, Wokezone said:

Rofl macho man 

I'm not sure they could have done that more perfectly.

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