Jpizzle

Not the new Donald Trump Presidency thread

66,320 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, Billy Ocean said:

As the comments in the original tweet stated, exit polls do education, education by race, and income -- but not income by race. And age is another important metric, as "White, no college" implies different things depending on whether you're picturing an under-40 person who is struggling, or a retiree homeowner who grew up when college was unnecessary to get decent work.

But in any event, Dems are gonna have to do a better job appealing to the white working class in order to win the electoral college.

The only appeal that seems to work is they're coming to take away your rights to give them to the minorities and that won't ever be a Dem talking point. Who benefitted more from health insurance access than working class white people? Yet, they were more than happy to give it up to own the libs. Who would benefit more from free or affordable college than the children of working class white people? Yet, they're perfectly fine complaining about student loan debt because it's not something that the GOP is providing.

A lot of working class Republican voters look for excuses to vote against their self-interests and knowing that somebody else has it worse, regardless of how badly their lives suck, is enough of an excuse. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was murdered after he started to broaden the scope of his activities to include working class people of all races. Racism is bad enough, but divisions within the so-called underclass is what allows the wheels to spin in favor of the mega-rich. I'd say that they deserve what they get but everybody else doesn't.

Statick, lostone, HolyMoses and 1 other like this

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3 minutes ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

Add the other 100 years on and I agree with everything you said.

Without answering the question. Gotcha.

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1 minute ago, Serge said:

And not to be a broken record, but he made the phone call that set this off literally first thing after Fox and Friends the day after the Mueller hearings. He had a summary of the phone call ready to go within a day of the story breaking. He created this whole scenario, and we're not supposed to notice that it's probably intentional if it keeps happening the same way, and benefiting Trump the same way, because the media's going to keep on pretending no one would ever think that.

Are we shocked at this point that Trump is controlling the narrative on the fake/scm (not to mention many Lemmings) for that matter.

Sometimes you act as though telling some of your peers on here is some sort of revelation? 

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17 minutes ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

LBJ, old white racist POTUS. It's amazing how much the Dems haven't changed in a century and a half.

BTW: You know that the Republican party did change about half a century ago, right?

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I saw Gorbachev speak at UGA back in 1999. Truly one of the most important leaders of the 20th century. It's unfortunate that the West economically exploited Russia in the 90s and lied about the eastward expansion of NATO.

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Ive been watching some people complain and argue today because their healthcare is so much they had to drop it and are looking for cheaper alternatives but arent finding any. Iys also some of the same people who mock a government healthcare option . Crazy

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16 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

I’ve not seen that.  Here’s some more from Volker...

Mr. Giuliani was “interested in Biden” and “Vice President Biden’s son,” but Ambassador Volker “pushed back” because Mr. Giuliani’s theory had been debunked. (Page 331-332)

Q: So is it your testimony that you understood that Rudy Giuliani’s desire for the Ukrainian Government to investigate Burisma had to do with potential money laundering or other criminal conduct by the company itself, and not in connection to either Joe or Hunter Biden?

A: No. I believe that Giuliani was interested in Biden, Vice President Biden’s son Biden [sic], and I had pushed back on that, and I was maintaining that distinction.

Q: So you were maintaining that distinction, because you understood that that whole
theory had been debunked and there was no evidence to support it, right?

A: Yes.

I think it is in Taylo and Soundland"s statement/testimony.

Sondland told Taylor a week earlier that the president wanted Zelensky to announce that he would launch two investigations. The first investigation was to center on whether Ukrainian officials worked with Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign to embarrass a Trump campaign adviser. The second was to focus on Burisma, a company that in 2014 hired then-Vice President Joe Biden’s son, Hunter. Sondland told another U.S. official, according to Taylor, that Trump wanted an investigation into Biden specifically, and this was communicated to Zelenksy and his aide, Andrey Yermak.

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“Help our team”, not “find out the truth...

According to three Republicans familiar with the talks, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) is considering placing Jordan on the panel, as well as others — such as Reps. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.) and Lee Zeldin (R-N.Y.), who have been involved in the depositions but do not sit on the Intelligence Committee.

A McCarthy spokesman confirmed comments that McCarthy made to Politico indicating that he planned to “make adjustments to that committee accordingly, for a short period of time” during the impeachment proceedings.

In a Fox News interview Tuesday, Jordan said the shuffle would be a “call for Leader McCarthy”

“I just want to help our team,” he added.

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9 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

The only appeal that seems to work is they're coming to take away your rights to give them to the minorities and that won't ever be a Dem talking point. Who benefitted more from health insurance access than working class white people? Yet, they were more than happy to give it up to own the libs. Who would benefit more from free or affordable college than the children of working class white people? Yet, they're perfectly fine complaining about student loan debt because it's not something that the GOP is providing.

A lot of working class Republican voters look for excuses to vote against their self-interests and knowing that somebody else has it worse, regardless of how badly their lives suck, is enough of an excuse. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was murdered after he started to broaden the scope of his activities to include working class people of all races. Racism is bad enough, but divisions within the so-called underclass is what allows the wheels to spin in favor of the mega-rich. I'd say that they deserve what they get but everybody else doesn't.

Ive never understood the “voting against their self interests” mindset here.  It’s always applied to poor whites.  If college educated whites support a democrat, arguably voting against what would likely be lower personal taxes, they are considered enlightened.  

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4 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

The only appeal that seems to work is they're coming to take away your rights to give them to the minorities and that won't ever be a Dem talking point. Who benefitted more from health insurance access than working class white people? Yet, they were more than happy to give it up to own the libs. Who would benefit more from free or affordable college than the children of working class white people? Yet, they're perfectly fine complaining about student loan debt because it's not something that the GOP is providing.

A lot of working class Republican voters look for excuses to vote against their self-interests and knowing that somebody else has it worse, regardless of how badly their lives suck, is enough of an excuse. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was murdered after he started to broaden the scope of his activities to include working class people of all races. Racism is bad enough, but divisions within the so-called underclass is what allows the wheels to spin in favor of the mega-rich. I'd say that they deserve what they get but everybody else doesn't.

As a Bernie Bro, I think I'd have a harder time winning over the white, college-educated, affluent Trump supporter in my upper middle class neighborhood than I would with say the white, no college, working-class person who works in the restaurants that I eat in.

Democrats began moving away from labor, in favor of capital, in the 70s. It coincides with the current 40-year-plus period where the middle class has seen no income growth. It's no real surprise that a party whose formula has been "neoliberalism + identity politics" has held little appeal to a generation of people who are worse off than their parents, and who are having children that are doing even worse than they are.

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2 minutes ago, kicker said:

Ive never understood the “voting against their self interests” mindset here.  It’s always applied to poor whites.  If college educated whites support a democrat, arguably voting against what would likely be lower personal taxes, they are considered enlightened.  

Voting for the rights of others is not seen by some as voting against their self-interests. To wit: if all employees had health insurance, theoretically, there will be less attrition due to health reasons. Same with child care. Some might see a balance there, knowing that they may pay more in taxes but have a more sustainable business as a result. And they also might just care about people more than they care about another 2% in taxable income.

But it's not just a problem for working class white folks. It's sad that black voter turnout doesn't approach 90% in every election but it's lucky to be 60% for generals. Not voting is voting and that is also against someone's self-interest. Every. Single. Time. So, if I made it seem as if this was endemic to Caucasians, then I was very wrong.

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22 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

BTW: You know that the Republican party did change about half a century ago, right?

They lost their righteous way in pursuit of the southern states

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3 minutes ago, Billy Ocean said:

As a Bernie Bro, I think I'd have a harder time winning over the white, college-educated, affluent Trump supporter in my upper middle class neighborhood than I would with say the white, no college, working-class person who works in the restaurants that I eat in.

Democrats began moving away from labor, in favor of capital, in the 70s. It coincides with the current 40-year-plus period where the middle class has seen no income growth. It's no real surprise that a party whose formula has been "neoliberalism + identity politics" has held little appeal to a generation of people who are worse off than their parents, and who are having children that are doing even worse than they are.

I hate voting Dem. The DNC is corrupt and takes its most loyal voters for granted. IMO, there's more low hanging fruit on the left than there is in the middle. They're trying so hard to move Trump centrists (which is an oxymoron, BTW) to vote Dem and probably losing the chance to pick up two eager progressive voters for every Trump voter that they're courting. And they're not going to get those people to move. Sad fact is that the Pelosis, Bidens, Wasserman-Schultzes, et.al. would rather complain about Trump than support a true progressive agenda.

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16 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

“Help our team”, not “find out the truth...

According to three Republicans familiar with the talks, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) is considering placing Jordan on the panel, as well as others — such as Reps. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.) and Lee Zeldin (R-N.Y.), who have been involved in the depositions but do not sit on the Intelligence Committee.

A McCarthy spokesman confirmed comments that McCarthy made to Politico indicating that he planned to “make adjustments to that committee accordingly, for a short period of time” during the impeachment proceedings.

In a Fox News interview Tuesday, Jordan said the shuffle would be a “call for Leader McCarthy”

“I just want to help our team,” he added.

Soundland: "Continuum of insidiousness"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ouch

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Just now, JayOzOne said:

I hate voting Dem. The DNC is corrupt and takes its most loyal voters for granted. IMO, there's more low hanging fruit on the left than there is in the middle. They're trying so hard to move Trump centrists (which is an oxymoron, BTW) to vote Dem and probably losing the chance to pick up two eager progressive voters for every Trump voter that they're courting. And they're not going to get those people to move. Sad fact is that the Pelosis, Bidens, Wasserman-Schultzes, et.al. would rather complain about Trump than support a true progressive agenda.

The people who run the DNC wish more than anything that their base was white, college-educated, and affluent.

“For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”

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Given Sondland’s amended testimony that he told Ukraine that they wouldn’t get the aid without agreeing to an investigation, I don’t think this is a exculpatory as the GOP thinks.  But it’s notable...

Former special envoy for Ukraine Kurt Volker told lawmakers that the Ukrainians didn’t know about the holdup of military assistance until after the Trump administration stopped pressing them to announce an investigation into the Bidens.

His testimony, released today, bolsters a key tenet of Trump’s defense – that there was no “quid pro quo” with Ukraine because the new government in Kiev was not aware that military aid was being withheld. 

Their position cuts against Democratic allegations that Trump used the $400 million aid package as leverage. 

“To my knowledge, the news about a hold on security assistance did not get into Ukrainian Government circles, as indicated to me by the current foreign minister, then diplomatic adviser, until the end of August,” Volker said. “And by the time that we had that, we had dropped the idea of even looking at a statement.”

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2 minutes ago, Scrunchomarx said:

They lost their righteous way in pursuit of the southern states

I wanted to hear him say it. He's not stupid but when he suggests that the Democratic Party is the same as it was in the 1860s (and by extension, that the Republican Party is the same as it was), he is essentially pi55ing on our legs and trying to tell us that it's raining. The reason he won't tell me his definition of racism is because he knows that he'll describe Trump and his actions explicitly. And if you're support a racist, then your actions are racist, regardless of whether you believe yourself to be.

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1 minute ago, Billy Ocean said:

The people who run the DNC wish more than anything that their base was white, college-educated, and affluent.

“For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”

F*ck 'em. They like liberal/progressive votes but like corporate donations a lot more. There's no reason why the Blue Wave should not have moved the party hard to the left or resulted in a huge grass roots effort to appeal to voters. But rather than embrace the reasons why it occurred, they're telling progressive voices to shut up and follow the leader. It's the opposite of what happened when the Tea Party highjacked the Republican Party. And it's going to blow up spectacularly in 2020 or 2022.

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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ex-envoy-trump-ukraine-transcripts

Former U.S. envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker, according to transcripts released Tuesday, pushed back on the claim that President Trump sought to withhold a meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky until Kiev committed to investigate allegations concerning the 2016 election -- while also denying that Trump was seeking “dirt” on former Vice President Joe Biden.

The transcripts, though, also reflect officials' concerns about the involvement of Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani in seeking politically related investigations out of Ukraine. Further, they offer varying accounts of whether a quid pro quo of some kind -- involving either a meeting or the release of U.S. military aid -- may have been presented.

In a transcript of his closed-door deposition last month with lawmakers conducting the impeachment probe, Volker was asked if Trump withheld or delayed a meeting with Zelensky absent a pledge to probe concerns Ukraine had interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

“The answer to the question is no, if you want a yes-or-no answer. But the reason the answer is no is we did have difficulty scheduling a meeting, but there was no linkage like that,” he said.

Recently revealed text messages showed Volker appearing to link the investigations to a D.C. visit by Zelensky. The deposition transcript seems to reflect Volker asserting the contrary.

House Democrats have established an impeachment inquiry to investigate the circumstances surrounding President Trump’s July 25 call with Zelensky, in which he urged him to “look into” allegations surrounding the 2016 election and the Biden family’s activities in the country.

Democrats have alleged that a quid pro quo took place, with Trump leveraging military aid until the Ukrainians investigated the claims. Trump and Zelensky have claimed that no pressure was placed on them.

However, acting U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Bill Taylor recently testified that the White House was willing to hold up both military aid and a prospective White House meeting to extract a public announcement from the country that probes were underway.

“By mid-July it was becoming clear to me that the meeting President Zelensky wanted was conditioned on the investigations of Burisma and alleged Ukrainian interference in the 2016 U.S. elections,” Taylor testified, referring to Burisma Holdings -- a Ukrainian energy firm where Joe Biden’s son Hunter sat on the board. A transcript of the July call shows Trump sought an investigation concerning Joe Biden’s involvement in seeking the ouster of a prosecutor looking into that firm.

Volker’s testimony, along with that of former E.U. Ambassador Gordon Sondland, was released Tuesday amid increasing calls from Republicans for the impeachment inquiry to be more open and transparent. They have accused Democrats of running “Soviet-style” hearings behind closed doors. Democrats have shot back, accusing the GOP of focusing on process rather than the president’s conduct.

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