Jpowors

Not the new Donald Trump Presidency thread

55,120 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, Billy Ocean said:

Which will happen first?

  1. Trout answers you about how McGovern was a left-wing extremist
  2. HolyMoses attempts to defend the Nakba
  3. We start to die from old age

I’ve already the McGovern stuff several times, including citing several data sources.  Go back and read those posts if you want to rehash the debate.

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1 hour ago, GEORGIAfan said:

 

We can all laugh at the absurdity of this guy's comments but as a black guy the anger of these old white guys is pretty scary because I know how stuff like this plays out.

The thread below is a very good read and hits on a lot of why I feel this way.

 

lostone likes this

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Just now, Psychic Gibbon said:

I don't know how you can look at the past four or so decades of bipartisan consensus regarding things like welfare "reform," privatization of social services, capital friendly monetary policy, draconian law and order, etc. and come away thinking that the center is blameless.

Find someone who loves you as much as Trout loves the status quo. 

WhenFalconsWin and bdog 29 like this

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Just now, Leon Troutsky said:

I’ve already the McGovern stuff several times, including citing several data sources.  Go back and read those posts if you want to rehash the debate.

Your data showed that McGovern was more of an extremist than someone who wanted to nuke a country.

All I've wanted are policy positions of McGovern's that were too extreme for electorate to swallow. You have never answered that.

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Just now, Psychic Gibbon said:

Your data showed that McGovern was more of an extremist than someone who wanted to nuke a country.

All I've wanted are policy positions of McGovern's that were too extreme for electorate to swallow. You have never answered that.

I’m not interested in rehashing this stupid “debate” because the evidence is clear.  In that period of time, McGovern was too far left for the public.  Try to spin and deflect all you like, but the evidence is clear on that.

There’s a lot more important stuff happening right now, especially regarding the Ukraine scandal.  This desperate attempt to revise history and promote Bernie by s***ing on everyone else has grown tired.  Time to move on to actually important things.

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1 minute ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

Your data showed that McGovern was more of an extremist than someone who wanted to nuke a country.

All I've wanted are policy positions of McGovern's that were too extreme for electorate to swallow. You have never answered that.

I remember the time Trout cited data showing that Trump was the most moderate candidate and the time Trout cited data showing that the Democrats have been moving way to the left over the past 40 years, but I must've missed the McGovern data.

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Just now, Leon Troutsky said:

I’m not interested in rehashing this stupid “debate” because the evidence is clear.  In that period of time, McGovern was too far left for the public.  Try to spin and deflect all you like, but the evidence is clear on that.

There’s a lot more important stuff happening right now, especially regarding the Ukraine scandal.  This desperate attempt to revise history and promote Bernie by s***ing on everyone else has grown tired.  Time to move on to actually important things.

If the data shows that someone is more of an extremist than Goldwater, the guy who wanted to nuke Vietnam and set into motion the far-right shift of the present GOP, then I'd like to know how exactly that's the case. Constantly saying, "Just accept it," is a **** argument, especially given how ridiculous it is and how other similar arguments about how Mondale and Dukakis were too left wing have fallen apart when we've actually dissected their platforms.

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3 minutes ago, Billy Ocean said:

I remember the time Trout cited data showing that Trump was the most moderate candidate and the time Trout cited data showing that the Democrats have been moving way to the left over the past 40 years, but I must've missed the McGovern data.

Trump was more ideologically moderate than other GOP candidates.  That’s just a fact.  

Democrats have moved ideologically to the left over the past 40 years.  That’s just a fact.

And McGovern was one of, if not the, most ideologically extreme candidate (relative to the year they ran) in modern history.  Just a simple fact.

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2 minutes ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

If the data shows that someone is more of an extremist than Goldwater, the guy who wanted to nuke Vietnam and set into motion the far-right shift of the present GOP, then I'd like to know how exactly that's the case. Constantly saying, "Just accept it," is a **** argument, especially given how ridiculous it is and how other similar arguments about how Mondale and Dukakis were too left wing have fallen apart when we've actually dissected their platforms.

I’m not saying “just accept it”.  I’m saying that I’ve shown the data and you keep coming up with these silly reasons to reject the conclusions from scientific studies.  It reminds me of the climate change deniers, if I’m being honest.

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2 minutes ago, Billy Ocean said:

@SpongeDad about 30 minutes into the Snowden interview on Joe Rogan Snowden says he hasn't seen info on aliens existing, but it's possible that it's well hidden.

I'm pretty sure that kind of info is on another server not accessible to low/mid level guys like him. He'd have to do some mission impossible shlt to get to that database.

mission_impossible.jpg

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7 minutes ago, Billy Ocean said:

I remember the time Trout cited data showing that Trump was the most moderate candidate and the time Trout cited data showing that the Democrats have been moving way to the left over the past 40 years, but I must've missed the McGovern data.

I assume the thread was deleted since I can't find any of it on searches.

IIRC, HM ranted about how McGovern, Mondale, and Dukakis were all left-wing extremists and evidence of why we should never nominate left-wing candidates. I pointed out that Mondale was more aligned with the current Democratic platform (eg. austerity, identity politics) than the left, Dukakis was objectively not the left-wing candidate of that cycle, and that McGovern lost due to his shenanigans while heading the party that greatly weakened the clout of unions, which obviously pissed them off, at the same time Nixon was actively courting them with his silent majority stuff.

Trout then posted some graph that showed that McGovern was more of an extremist than Goldwater. That made no sense to me, given their platforms, so I asked for an explanation of what exactly made McGovern more extreme than Goldwater. Months later the only answer I get is:

6 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

I’m not saying “just accept it”.  I’m saying that I’ve shown the data and you keep coming up with these silly reasons to reject the conclusions from scientific studies.  It reminds me of the climate change deniers, if I’m being honest.

Such good faith.

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30 minutes ago, Gritzblitz 2.0 said:

I think that's because many blame the centrists for the rise of Trump. 

And they might have a point. 

The crazy thing to me is people thinking any Democrat has a good chance against Trump despite this obvious split in the base, essentially because the people who respond to political polls have a basic opinion about every candidate.

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5 minutes ago, SpongeDad said:

I'm pretty sure that kind of info is on another server not accessible to low/mid level guys like him. He'd have to do some mission impossible shlt to get to that database.

mission_impossible.jpg

Snowden was a guest on your boy Neil deGrasse Tyson's podcast 4 years ago and he said aliens might just use too strong of an encryption for us to talk to them.

 

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3 minutes ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

I assume the thread was deleted since I can't find any of it on searches.

IIRC, HM ranted about how McGovern, Mondale, and Dukakis were all left-wing extremists and evidence of why we should never nominate left-wing candidates. I pointed out that Mondale was more aligned with the current Democratic platform (eg. austerity, identity politics) than the left, Dukakis was objectively not the left-wing candidate of that cycle, and that McGovern lost due to his shenanigans while heading the party that greatly weakened the clout of unions, which obviously pissed them off, at the same time Nixon was actively courting them with his silent majority stuff.

Trout then posted some graph that showed that McGovern was more of an extremist than Goldwater. That made no sense to me, given their platforms, so I asked for an explanation of what exactly made McGovern more extreme than Goldwater. Months later the only answer I get is:

Such good faith.

The posts are almost certainly there but when a thread gets locked for some reason you can’t search it on the boards.  

The data measures Goldwater’s policy positions.  Other data measures citizens’ perceptions about his policy positions.  Both of them show that he was ideologically extreme.  

As I said, with so many more important things going on right now, it’s useless to rehash this whole thing just because you want to try to prop up a losing candidate.  

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1 minute ago, Serge said:

The crazy thing to me is people thinking any Democrat has a good chance against Trump despite this obvious split in the base, essentially because the people who respond to political polls have a basic opinion about every candidate.

The split will disappear when a final choice is made don't you think?

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2 minutes ago, Big_Dog said:

The split will disappear when a final choice is made don't you think?

No, they'll go third party or stay home. He is trying to let you down easy. I'm here to tell you the hard truth in only the way WFW can.

The Dems are not winning in 2020, I don't know how many times I have to be right for you to believe me, Grampie?

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Just now, Big_Dog said:

The split will disappear when a final choice is made don't you think?

That's what the Never Trumpers will be counting on. Again.

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6 minutes ago, Big_Dog said:

The split will disappear when a final choice is made don't you think?

I remember in 2008 when the “PUMA’s” were going to sink Obama’s chances.  It’s always something that gets floated each election year and it almost never has a significant effect.  

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11 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

The posts are almost certainly there but when a thread gets locked for some reason you can’t search it on the boards.  

The data measures Goldwater’s policy positions.  Other data measures citizens’ perceptions about his policy positions.  Both of them show that he was ideologically extreme.  

As I said, with so many more important things going on right now, it’s useless to rehash this whole thing just because you want to try to prop up a losing candidate.  

Not really. It's common propaganda among centrists to blame those three blowouts on those candidates being too left-wing even though the platforms of two of them are aligned with the centrist consensus and there were much more significant reasons for McGovern's loss than his platform, namely the alienation between him and the unions that the Dems relied extremely heavily on for voter mobilization. It's a bad, lazy argument to fearmonger the base.

As for McGovern/Goldwater thing specifically, it's simply difficult to take data points at face value seriously when they say that someone was more of an extremist than someone who wanted to repeal the CRA, destroy the New Deal, wanted to nuke Vietnam, and so on. It's more difficult to take it seriously when I'm compared to climate change deniers for wanting an explanation or examples as to why that'd be the case.

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6 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

I remember in 2008 when the “PUMA’s” were going to sink Obama’s chances.  It’s always something that gets floated each election year and it almost never has a significant effect.  

I remember when liberals spent another decade talking about how much they respect John McCain and somehow never figured out that Trump plays up his hatred of McCain to get liberals to come to his defense.

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21 minutes ago, Serge said:

The crazy thing to me is people thinking any Democrat has a good chance against Trump despite this obvious split in the base, essentially because the people who respond to political polls have a basic opinion about every candidate.

One of the reasons Dems were spiking the football in 2016 was because they thought the GOP was hopelessly divided after their primary.

I don't know where the idea where primaries need to be smooth sailing or else you're doomed came from.

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5 minutes ago, thesouphead said:

 

 

Early Clinton Derangement Syndrome leads to Hillary Derangement Syndrome leads to Obama Derangement Syndrome leads to full on Conservative brain cancer

 

Andrews_31 and thesouphead like this

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