Jpowors

Not the new Donald Trump Presidency thread

54,893 posts in this topic

25 minutes ago, Sn4tteRBoxXeR said:

I really think Sanders should not fight to the "bitter end" like he did in 2016. It really ****** up the Democrats. Not that it was wrong at the time. But we have now seen the effects. It causes lower Dem turnout and increases third party support. Bernie needs to learn the lesson of 2016 too, just like Hillary did. He needs to bow out at some point early next year.

clinton herself fought to the bitter end in 2008 with basically zero repercussions in the general. it's not "fighting to the end" that caused dissatisfaction among sanders' supporters, it was that there was greater ideological distance between sanders and clinton than there was between clinton and obama. 

you're not going to avoid that ideological gap by asking sanders to play nice and drop out at the earliest sign of trouble. we're living in a battle for the future of the democratic party. the left isn't going to just fall in line anymore. we're going to win.  

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19 minutes ago, achilles return said:

not if the movement comes at the cost of support for biden and warren. the point is, you don't know. we won't know until it comes time to vote, and far stranger things have happened. 

the idea that sanders should stop running on the basis of iowa polling in october is simply ridiculous. it's indicative of your personal dislike of sanders and his supporters, nothing more. 

I posted that because many other people were talking about how Biden should drop out.  Maybe you missed those posts?

 

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7 minutes ago, achilles return said:

clinton herself fought to the bitter end in 2008 with basically zero repercussions in the general. it's not "fighting to the end" that caused dissatisfaction among sanders' supporters, it was that there was greater ideological distance between sanders and clinton than there was between clinton and obama. 

you're not going to avoid that ideological gap by asking sanders to play nice and drop out at the earliest sign of trouble. we're living in a battle for the future of the democratic party. the left isn't going to just fall in line anymore. we're going to win.  

1. I don't give a **** what Clinton did in 2008. I hope she never runs for anything ever again.

2. Dissatisfaction among Sander's supporters was hugely impacted by the "dirty primary/convention" that absolutely must be avoided in 2020. There's no ifs or buts here.

3. No one is asking Sanders to drop out "at the earliest sign of trouble" except bad faith people, or good faith people playing bad faith people (Like Leon just did).

4. The left didn't fall in line in 2016 and what did we win? We won a Trump presidency, 2 Supreme court picks including 1 accused rapist, the lowest taxes in decades for the uber rich and zero action on climate change. So I appreciate your rhetoric but I refuse to play the good faith/bad faith game (on the whole.)

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1 hour ago, Leon Troutsky said:

Everyone’s talking about Biden should drop out, yet he’s still running in the top 2 the entire time. 

I actually think Sanders should drop out and throw his support to Warren.  Sander’s is now down in the single digits, it’s been obvious for awhile that he’s not going to win the nomination, and now If his supporters moved to Warren that would likely boost her into a comfortable #1 spot in the polls.  

It's mostly because Biden is clearly mentally declining, not due to his polling.

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17 minutes ago, Sn4tteRBoxXeR said:

1. I don't give a **** what Clinton did in 2008. I hope she never runs for anything ever again.

2. Dissatisfaction among Sander's supporters was hugely impacted by the "dirty primary/convention" that absolutely must be avoided in 2020. There's no ifs or buts here.

3. No one is asking Sanders to drop out "at the earliest sign of trouble" except bad faith people, or good faith people playing bad faith people (Like Leon just did).

4. The left didn't fall in line in 2016 and what did we win? We won a Trump presidency, 2 Supreme court picks including 1 accused rapist, the lowest taxes in decades for the uber rich and zero action on climate change. So I appreciate your rhetoric but I refuse to play the good faith/bad faith game (on the whole.)

90%+ of Sanders' supporters voted for Clinton. Get a better excuse for Hillary losing to Trump.

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38 minutes ago, achilles return said:

clinton herself fought to the bitter end in 2008 with basically zero repercussions in the general. it's not "fighting to the end" that caused dissatisfaction among sanders' supporters, it was that there was greater ideological distance between sanders and clinton than there was between clinton and obama. 

you're not going to avoid that ideological gap by asking sanders to play nice and drop out at the earliest sign of trouble. we're living in a battle for the future of the democratic party. the left isn't going to just fall in line anymore. we're going to win.  

No, you are not. To win, you need to expand your base. Bernie and his campaign are not doing that. 54% of Dem voters voted for HRC. What gestures has Sanders done to appeal to those voters? I should be the easiest gettable voter, but instead, I see Sanders double down on the rigging message and hire BernieOrBusters/Stein voters. 

For all her flaws, Warren has been the candidate trying to reach out and her polling numbers have shown that. She is now the most popular candidate in the race and has consistently the largest pool of voters willing to consider her. 

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57 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

I posted that because many other people were talking about how Biden should drop out.  Maybe you missed those posts?

 

we freely admit we want biden to drop out because he sucks, though. there's no veneer of political strategy there. 

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53 minutes ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

90%+ of Sanders' supporters voted for Clinton. Get a better excuse for Hillary losing to Trump.

So the "left" consists of only Sanders' supporters? Wow, that is a revelation to me.

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1 minute ago, Sn4tteRBoxXeR said:

So the "left" consists of only Sanders' supporters? Wow, that is a revelation to me.

A good chunk of the left is anti-electoral or opposed to the Dems for ideological reasons and don't see much difference between them and the GOP. If you're expecting them to suddenly put that aside to vote for someone like Hillary then lol

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6 minutes ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

 

Doesn't seem like this guy is credible. 

No reason to believe Kamala's Medicare for All plan would actually be more expensive than Bernie's Medicare for All plan. 

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1 minute ago, GEORGIAfan said:

Doesn't seem like this guy is credible. 

No reason to believe Kamala's Medicare for All plan would actually be more expensive than Bernie's Medicare for All plan. 

Just because he pokes holes in your talking points doesn't make him not credible. Just means you disagree.

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Just now, Psychic Gibbon said:

Just because he pokes holes in your talking points doesn't make him not credible. Just means you disagree.

I don't get talking points. And what holes has he actually poked through? He is making dubious claims with no evidence and using his background to gloss over that. 

Pete isn't making any claims about how insurance companies operate in the video. Just that Warren isn't explaining how she would pay for M4All. Pete has said numerous times he believes a Medicare option would win out, so it isn't as if he believes insurance companies would compete. 

 

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The thing I don't like about Pete is that he values Trumplicans over the disaffected "Real" silent majority (non-voters that need to be inspired to vote). Pete is the anti-Bernie. And I like Bernie. So, I don't like Pete.

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