Jpowors

Not the new Donald Trump Presidency thread

50,405 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, lostone said:

Kinda think I has a come to Jesusish moment

 

so part of me feels I judge evangelicals based on a minority of constituents.  But then they voted for a guy who is the embodiment of socially everything they hate and compromise almost every belief they hold.  Then I see the hate and all this anti Christianity stuff that is pulled ... 

wtf ami supposed to think after that @JDaveG

Am I not seeing something?  People are still fighting against gay people adopting kids and getting married.  How do I respect the view of someone who may hate me or someone I love?

I'm not sure I can address all of that, mostly because I'm not connecting the dots really well here.  So I'll take it paragraph by paragraph and you can fill me in if I'm missing something.

I don't think a minority of evangelicals are responsible for Trump.  A majority of them are.  No doubt -- if you hold that vote against them, that's animus they have earned.

As for the last paragraph, if I'm reading you right, I think the issue is that O'Rourke isn't talking about opposing the legality of gay marriage (or adoption).  Even if he was, viewpoint discrimination is not an answer to anything.  It's patently unconstitutional.  But the reality is gay marriage is already legal, and most Christian adoption agencies who do not adopt out to same sex couples WILL refer them to adoption agencies who do.  They are trying to balance their conscience against basic fairness.  They aren't saying it should be illegal for gays to adopt.  And keep in mind, in light of @achilles return's comments above, O'Rourke wasn't talking about just evangelicals.  He said ANY religious organization.

Now, I'm sure some evangelicals would be fine if gay marriage and adoption were illegal.  Perhaps a whole lot of them would.  They are wrong.  Their views should be opposed.  But that's not at all what I'm talking about, and it certainly isn't what Beto O'Rourke is talking about.  

Your last sentence -- that's the core of it.  You asked it.  I'm going to ask you to look at Beto O'Rourke through the lens of an evangelical voter and ask it from their point of view.  Because I bet the evangelical voter is thinking the very same thing about Beto O'Rourke.

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i mean the issue there is i don't think warren did anything wrong. it's not different for me than if she had mocked someone for supporting a ban on interracial marriage. religion has been used to justify all sorts of discriminatory policies, and i have zero interest in entertaining any of them. if you think warren's comment was derisive of all christians, i'd strongly disagree. i've seen a whole lot of them separate their beliefs from any discriminatory baggage. in fact, liz warren is one of them! that there are those that cannot is not my burden, and their feelings are not my concern.

in my opinion, the people that should be doing the work to learn to respect others are the evangelicals, not the victims of their preferred political policies. 

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Just now, achilles return said:

i mean the issue there is i don't think warren did anything wrong. it's not different for me than if she had mocked someone for supporting a ban on interracial marriage. religion has been used to justify all sorts of discriminatory policies, and i have zero interest in entertaining any of them. if you think warren's comment was derisive of all christians, i'd strongly disagree. i've seen a whole lot of them separate their beliefs from any discriminatory baggage. in fact, liz warren is one of them! that there are those that cannot is not my burden, and their feelings are not my concern.

in my opinion, the people that should be doing the work to learn to respect others are the evangelicals, not the victims of their preferred political policies. 

Okay.  Beto O'Rourke apparently agrees with you.

Would you expect any evangelical to vote for you?

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Just now, JDaveG said:

Okay.  Beto O'Rourke apparently agrees with you.

Would you expect any evangelical to vote for you?

i don't. i never asked any to. i'm not running for anything.

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Just now, JDaveG said:

I'm not sure I can address all of that, mostly because I'm not connecting the dots really well here.  So I'll take it paragraph by paragraph and you can fill me in if I'm missing something.

I don't think a minority of evangelicals are responsible for Trump.  A majority of them are.  No doubt -- if you hold that vote against them, that's animus they have earned.

As for the last paragraph, if I'm reading you right, I think the issue is that O'Rourke isn't talking about opposing the legality of gay marriage (or adoption).  Even if he was, viewpoint discrimination is not an answer to anything.  It's patently unconstitutional.  But the reality is gay marriage is already legal, and most Christian adoption agencies who do not adopt out to same sex couples WILL refer them to adoption agencies who do.  They are trying to balance their conscience against basic fairness.  They aren't saying it should be illegal for gays to adopt.  And keep in mind, in light of @achilles return's comments above, O'Rourke wasn't talking about just evangelicals.  He said ANY religious organization.

Now, I'm sure some evangelicals would be fine if gay marriage and adoption were illegal.  Perhaps a whole lot of them would.  They are wrong.  Their views should be opposed.  But that's not at all what I'm talking about, and it certainly isn't what Beto O'Rourke is talking about.  

Your last sentence -- that's the core of it.  You asked it.  I'm going to ask you to look at Beto O'Rourke through the lens of an evangelical voter and ask it from their point of view.  Because I bet the evangelical voter is thinking the very same thing about Beto O'Rourke.

Honestly I’m not in favor of what Beto says at all.  I was just ranting about evangelicals more so.  You can’t force someone to believe something especially private institutions.  He is wrong for that.  I’m more about ending giant religious institutions from becoming tax havens for a select few *cough* Olsteen *cough* like you stated before.  Now if their books prove that most of that money is going to the community, they can keep the status.  If it’s going to book buying to get the minister extra money on their crappy self help book then meh.

Heh me talking about law and order along with justice to an evangelical will probably make my brain hurt.

 

about to go get choked.  I’ll be on later

JDaveG likes this

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These are the kinds of things where religious people who dont particularly like trump and dont want to vote for him go well if I dont vote for Trump and the other side wins they are specifically going to come target us and attack us based on our traditional view of marriage that is thousands of years older than this country. 

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Just now, lostone said:

about to go get choked.  I’ll be on later

Jiu Jitsu mat or seedy massage parlor?

 

 

 

 

 

 

giphy.gif

lostone likes this

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 Reason number 18,538 that I’m going to ****:

 I was at a funeral this afternoon. It is one of those beyond tragic situations. 18 oh girl died of brain cancer. Diagnosed three years ago, She beat it for a while, and then she didn’t.  It was strange to be at a funeral with so many people, so few of whom were old. 

 One of my sons teammates was next to me with his parents after the graveside service when people began the Jewish tradition  of shoveling dirt onto the coffin

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/5tb4nz/when_at_a_funeral_why_do_jews_put_the_first/ The kids mother explained to him the tradition of turning the shower upside down 

 When she was finished, I whispered to him “I think it’s because Jews don’t know squat about farming.“

 

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2 minutes ago, HolyMoses said:

 

 One of my sons teammates was next to me with his parents after the graveside service when people began the Jewish tradition  of shoveling dirt onto the coffin

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/5tb4nz/when_at_a_funeral_why_do_jews_put_the_first/ The kids mother explained to him the tradition of turning the shower upside down 

 When she was finished, I whispered to him “I think it’s because Jews don’t know anything about farming.“

 

**** dude :lol:

 

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1 hour ago, JDaveG said:

Jiu Jitsu mat or seedy massage parlor?

 

 

 

 

 

 

giphy.gif

I am negrodomas

i was choked repeatedly... also armbared and wristlocked

good lord

Sn4tteRBoxXeR likes this

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31 minutes ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

The question is, why are you watching your dog pee that closely?? :huh:

No that's when she comes up and tries to stand in between me and the television

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