Falconsin2012

Cover 3: Manuel Vs Quinn

227 posts in this topic

I’ve seen and read quite a bit about Manuel the DC.  While I think he was a scapegoat for last year, I am curious about a few things.

First the Quinn/Carroll Cover -3.  Is it really an aggressive defense or rather just one that is fast. The thought behind the Cover-3 is to simplify things for the players so they can execute without hesitation while also limiting big plays by getting the football underneath.  This is exactly what Manuel did as our playcaller in 2017 but knowledgeable posters I trust ( @Vandy@Knight of God  @vel @TheFatboi @MSalmon @Yo_Lover @athell @youngbloodz @Ergo Proxy@FalconFanSince1970 @kiwifalcon @g-dawg  @gazoo ) didn’t think he was aggressive enough.  

I am of the opinion that over the last two years Quinn was just as involved in the defense game plan and coaching as was Manuel.  

So I ask a question: how will the defense be different from previous years?  Is Quinn’s defense aggressive or simply fast and physical?

What should we expect in 2019.  I have my thoughts.  Curious to hear TATF’s

 

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You'll see more of what we saw in '16 and lacked in '18

Cover 1 man

Cover 3

Stunts on the Dline

And the dline being more aggressive, watch Beasley last year. He will rush, hit the T, and then run out to cover the flat or stand back trying to swat the pass instead of rushing. 

And no ******* cover 2. 

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1 minute ago, Yo_Lover said:

You'll see more of what we saw in '16 and lacked in '18

Cover 1 man

Cover 3

Stunts on the Dline

And the dline being more aggressive, watch Beasley last year. He will rush, hit the T, and then run out to cover the flat or stand back trying to swat the pass instead of rushing. 

And no ******* cover 2. 

Was Manuel running Quinn’s Cover 3 in 2017?

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Just now, Falconsin2012 said:

Was Manuel running Quinn’s Cover 3 in 2017?

He was running the coverage as far as I could tell but lacked the pass rush stunts. To me it looked like the dline was wanting to swat passes more than they wanted to get to the QB.

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1 minute ago, Yo_Lover said:

He was running the coverage as far as I could tell but lacked the pass rush stunts. To me it looked like the dline was wanting to swat passes more than they wanted to get to the QB.

I know the late 2016 Quinn defense was far more aggressive trying to strip and dislodge the football

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1 minute ago, Falconsin2012 said:

I’ve seen and read quite a bit about Manuel the DC.  While I think he was a scapegoat for last year, I am curious about a few things.

First the Quinn/Carroll Cover -3.  Is it really an aggressive defense or rather just one that is fast. The thought behind the Cover-3 is to simplify things for the players so they can execute without hesitation while also limiting big plays by getting the football underneath.  This is exactly what Manuel did as our playcaller in 2017 but knowledgeable posters I trust ( @Vandy@Knight of God  @vel @TheFatboi @MSalmon @Yo_Lover @athell @youngbloodz @FalconFanSince1970 @kiwifalcon @g-dawg  @gazoo )

didn’t think he was aggressive enough.  

I am of the opinion that Quinn was just as involved in the defense game plan and coaching as was Manuel.  

So I ask a question: how will the defense be different from previous years?  Is Quinn’s defense aggressive or simply fast and physical?

What should we expect in 2019.  I have my thoughts.  Curious to hear TATF’s

 

I think Quinn will be a better playcaller than Manuel. He should be more strategic on when to blitz, switch between zone and man, stunt, run zone dogs, etc. As for his system, it's not my favorite. I'm more of a 3-4 guy. Get five guys on the LOS to play the run. Blitz more with more disguise. It's more aggressive.

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1 minute ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

I think Quinn will be a better playcaller than Manuel. He should be more strategic on when to blitz, switch between zone and man, stunt, run zone dogs, etc. As for his system, it's not my favorite. I'm more of a 3-4 guy. Get five guys on the LOS to play the run. Blitz more with more disguise. It's more aggressive.

If you're in base yeah but teams rarely play in base anymore. This isn't the 70's. You run base now you're gonna get slaughtered.

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Few thoughts on last years Defense. 

Defensive line underperformed and players weren’t used to their strengths. No stunts at all. 

The biggest problem was defensive line didn’t line up correctly. The line was unbalanced, either by design or just poor communication or lack of preparation.  Debo injury might have played a role here. DL player much better when Debo eased back. 

Losing Rico blew the top off the defense, MM went cover 2 a lot. 

With DQ and players coming back, see more aggressive play calling at line and secondary with man coverage. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

I think Quinn will be a better playcaller than Manuel. He should be more strategic on when to blitz, switch between zone and man, stunt, run zone dogs, etc. As for his system, it's not my favorite. I'm more of a 3-4 guy. Get five guys on the LOS to play the run. Blitz more with more disguise. It's more aggressive.

I suspect your 1st sentence is the winner.  Was MM defense soft while Quinn’s aggressive?  I tend to think not

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6 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

If you're in base yeah but teams rarely play in base anymore. This isn't the 70's. You run base now you're gonna get slaughtered.

Our base is a 4-3 and nickel is a 4-2. Neither get much heat or stop the run very well. 

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6 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

I suspect your 1st sentence is the winner.  Was MM defense soft while Quinn’s aggressive?  I tend to think not

If by aggressive you mean blitzing or playing press man, no. Not even in SEA.

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27 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

Few thoughts on last years Defense. 

Defensive line underperformed and players weren’t used to their strengths. No stunts at all. 

The biggest problem was defensive line didn’t line up correctly. The line was unbalanced, either by design or just poor communication or lack of preparation.  Debo injury might have played a role here. DL player much better when Debo eased back. 

Losing Rico blew the top off the defense, MM went cover 2 a lot. 

With DQ and players coming back, see more aggressive play calling at line and secondary with man coverage. 

 

 

I honestly think we may eschew Cover 3 quite a bit in favor of man coverage like we did late in 2016.  We didn’t really play Cover 3 until the 4th quarter of SB51

We specifically had success in a man-lurk coverage, keeping a free defender (either SS Keanu Neal or SLB De’Vondre Campbell) in the shallow middle. The lurker takes crossing crossing patterns (as it did in our SB) and allows the Falcons to switch coverage assignments on the fly.   We thrived in that defensive concept.  I’m hopeful we see more of it in 2019

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16 minutes ago, youngbloodz said:

Cover 3 by nature isn't very aggressive system. It's about making the qb throw short passes,keeping everything in front,not giving up the big play. It's really about the playcalling. When to switch to man and what blitz to call and when 

Exactly...it’s why we had a top 7 defense in 2017 but our DVOA was bottom third.  It gives you the flats and makes you take 14 plays..the idea is you’ll make a mistake.  When you do, then the defense gets aggressive

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12 minutes ago, NWFALCON said:

You mean Quinn won’t rush 3 on and obvious passing third down?

If you call it at the right time it works and you’re a genius.  Look at Debo’s INT vs Saints in the end zone to win the game

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29 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Our base is a 4-3 and nickel is a 4-2. Neither get much heat or stop the run very well. 

We usually play 5 men on the DL on run downs. I personally don't think the defense will change a whole lot, but I think we will run more stunts. 

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44 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Our base is a 4-3 and nickel is a 4-2. Neither get much heat or stop the run very well. 

Seattle, NY, Jax, etc all run a 4-3 and do fine pass rush wise. We also run a 3-4 at times.

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21 minutes ago, Osiruz said:

We usually play 5 men on the DL on run downs. I personally don't think the defense will change a whole lot, but I think we will run more stunts. 

No we don't. Not in base, nickel or dime.

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7 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

Seattle, NY, Jax, etc all run a 4-3 and do fine pass rush wise. We also run a 3-4 at times.

When did we run a 3-4? I missed that. Which game(s)?

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1 minute ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

When did we run a 3-4? I missed that. Which game(s)?

Off the top of my head I can't remember. I just remember noticing we've had some 3-4 fronts where Beasley and Reed or someone standing up before rushing.

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4 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

When did we run a 3-4? I missed that. Which game(s)?

We could in 2017 with Poe.  Last year we had no suitable 3-4 NT

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11 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

Off the top of my head I can't remember. I just remember noticing we've had some 3-4 fronts where Beasley and Reed or someone standing up before rushing.

OK

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7 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

We could in 2017 with Poe.  Last year we had no suitable 3-4 NT

We don't have the backers or interior linemen to run a 3-4. Not that Quinn ever would.

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1 hour ago, Falconsin2012 said:

I’ve seen and read quite a bit about Manuel the DC.  While I think he was a scapegoat for last year, I am curious about a few things.

First the Quinn/Carroll Cover -3.  Is it really an aggressive defense or rather just one that is fast. The thought behind the Cover-3 is to simplify things for the players so they can execute without hesitation while also limiting big plays by getting the football underneath.  This is exactly what Manuel did as our playcaller in 2017 but knowledgeable posters I trust ( @Vandy@Knight of God  @vel @TheFatboi @MSalmon @Yo_Lover @athell @youngbloodz @Ergo Proxy@FalconFanSince1970 @kiwifalcon @g-dawg  @gazoo ) didn’t think he was aggressive enough.  

I am of the opinion that over the last two years Quinn was just as involved in the defense game plan and coaching as was Manuel.  

So I ask a question: how will the defense be different from previous years?  Is Quinn’s defense aggressive or simply fast and physical?

What should we expect in 2019.  I have my thoughts.  Curious to hear TATF’s

 

It’s not a simple defense tho. It’s simple yet complex cause there’s still a lot of things to consider when you read your keys. And that’s where it can fall apart if one guy is out if sync. Hence why we fell apart without Rico. It’s also about the pressure the front 4 gets. Quinn wants to apply heat without blitzing. The more intense the pressure the quicker the ball comes out for an errant throw which increases a chance for a turnover. In 2016 we were top 10 in turnovers. Partly because Beasley was creating lots of pressure and strip sacks and Hag, babs, freeney, and Clay we applying lots of pressure. The weakness by nature is curls/comebacks and the seam. Manuel wasn’t as aggressive as Quinn. It could’ve been because the front 4 didn’t get pressure as much as 2016 and the Seattle defense. Quinn by nature is an aggressive play caller. That’s why he’s on Beasley @ss this year. Takk’s Too. If we get relentless pressure up front the rest of the defense will be awesome. 

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