Cole World

GM Scott Pioli stepping down

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Posted (edited)

Even five years removed from my Falcons connection, I'm pretty sure I still have better insight into the Dimitroff/Pioli dynamic than the rest of you guys.

My guess is that it finally came to full-blown fisticuffs - verbally at least, if not literally.  This was a long time coming.

Edited by JOEinPHX
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5 hours ago, Dr Long Shot said:

****... hopefully Dimi has learned all he could from Pioli, but regardless it's a big loss. Two heads always think better than one.

how is this a big loss??? 

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9 minutes ago, 81KJW said:

how is this a big loss??? 

Compare our 2012, 2013 & 2014 drafts to the 4 drafts with Pioli in 2015, 2016, 2017 & 2018

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2 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Compare our 2012, 2013 & 2014 drafts to the 4 drafts with Pioli in 2015, 2016, 2017 & 2018

Are we ignoring all other factors and giving all the credit to Pioli?

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4 minutes ago, hjerry said:

Are we ignoring all other factors and giving all the credit to Pioli?

No...but to think he played a minimal role is a tad naive.  No doubt he will be missed

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At least he waited until his job was done this off-season.

Sucks he's leaving but not that big of a deal.

We still have a great scouting and recruiting dept.

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4 hours ago, Cheap Talk said:

He literally turned the Falcons around from getting little to nothing from their drafts, to (4-5) starters from almost every draft, since his arrival before the 2014 draft.

Only time will tell how this turns-out for the Falcons. Unless the FO learned from him, it will not turn-out like Falcons Fans want.

I think Quinn having a clear idea of what he wants in a player helped as much or more than Pioli's contribution.

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3 hours ago, falconidae said:

I think Quinn having a clear idea of what he wants in a player helped as much or more than Pioli's contribution.

I will repeat an earlier post: I think it is one thing having a vision of the player fitting your scheme, and another finding that player with the talent to play in the NFL. That is where the scouting department earns its stripes, with the harder of the two distinctions. I say the Falcons Draft turned around in 2014, before Quinn arrived.

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4 hours ago, JOEinPHX said:

Even five years removed from my Falcons connection, I'm pretty sure I still have better insight into the Dimitroff/Pioli dynamic than the rest of you guys.

My guess is that it finally came to full-blown fisticuffs - verbally at least, if not literally.  This was a long time coming.

Is this your perception or something with substance?

The two were life-long friends. One thing I have noticed over the last 5-years is that TD always gets all the credit for successes in drafting, but in reality Pioli was always the man behind the curtain. Pioli was a better man than me to put up with that as long as he did.

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14 hours ago, Cheap Talk said:

So you think the turn-a-round came in 2015, with the arrival of Quinn? 

I think it is one thing having a vision of the player fitting your scheme, and another finding that player with the talent to play in the NFL. That is where the scouting department earns its stripes, with the harder of the two distinctions. I say the Falcons Draft turned around in 2014, before Quinn arrived.

Let's hope Pioli will not be missed as much as I suspect he will be. But, it will take a couple of years to find out thank goodness.

Oh I agree Pioli definitely helped. But having a clear vision from your HC and what players fit that vision makes any GM/scouts job much easier. HeIl, look at how many players we've guessed right as a message board since DQ got here and we're below amateur level lol. 

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32 minutes ago, Flying Falcon said:

This is gonna hurt more than we know.

Or one of the other former GMs on staff steps up into Pioli's role and the Falcons don't miss a beat.

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Posted (edited)

16 hours ago, 81KJW said:

how is this a big loss??? 

 

15 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

No...but to think he played a minimal role is a tad naive.  No doubt he will be missed

Our personnel moves got significantly better when Pioli arrived. Not just drafts but our free agent signings like Sanu and Mack. Maybe Pioli had nothing to do with it but considering everyone in the organization has given him a ton of credit from year 1 and he has been around for five years, it's pretty safe to say that he has had a pretty big impact in the way we have done things the last four years. When Pioli arrived we had exactly two pro bowl players on the roster and very little else. Five years later we have one of the most talented rosters, with at least 7 players with a pretty good chance of making the pro bowl next year (Matt Ryan, Julio Jones, Jake Mathews, Dion Jones, Keanu Neal, Grady Jarret, Alex Mack.) It's a staggering amount of talent that we have accumulated when it seemed all but certain in 2014 that TD would lose his job.

Edited by Dr Long Shot
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2 hours ago, vel said:

Oh I agree Pioli definitely helped. But having a clear vision from your HC and what players fit that vision makes any GM/scouts job much easier. HeIl, look at how many players we've guessed right as a message board since DQ got here and we're below amateur level lol. 

Not so sure what that means? Besides, I had better luck knowing who was going to be drafted in the Smith era.

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9 minutes ago, Cheap Talk said:

Not so sure what that means? Besides, I had better luck knowing who was going to be drafted in the Smith era.

It's a lot easier to see a player as a fit for DQ's team/scheme throughout the draft. We knew who Smitty would want in the first/second rounds, but very little after that. A guy like Cominsky was widely accepted as a DQ type of guy and sure enough he ended up a Falcon and we know exactly why DQ would have wanted him and planned to play him. 

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16 hours ago, JOEinPHX said:

Even five years removed from my Falcons connection, I'm pretty sure I still have better insight into the Dimitroff/Pioli dynamic than the rest of you guys.

My guess is that it finally came to full-blown fisticuffs - verbally at least, if not literally.  This was a long time coming.

Haven't posted here in a long time but listen to Joe . 

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Posted (edited)

10 minutes ago, vel said:

It's a lot easier to see a player as a fit for DQ's team/scheme throughout the draft. We knew who Smitty would want in the first/second rounds, but very little after that. A guy like Cominsky was widely accepted as a DQ type of guy and sure enough he ended up a Falcon and we know exactly why DQ would have wanted him and planned to play him. 

Do know there were those here that pegged Cominsky as a Falcon, must say that is a pretty amazing call. Beyond that though, this draft was a total enigma for all of us, except that we knew the lines would be address in #1/#2, then the CBs were next. I did call that order of selection, but missed on which line it would be, like most of us here did. 

 

Edited by Cheap Talk
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26 minutes ago, vel said:

It's a lot easier to see a player as a fit for DQ's team/scheme throughout the draft. We knew who Smitty would want in the first/second rounds, but very little after that. A guy like Cominsky was widely accepted as a DQ type of guy and sure enough he ended up a Falcon and we know exactly why DQ would have wanted him and planned to play him. 

This is one of few areas you and I differ on.....its easier to see because Quinn has a lot more say in the draft process than Smith ever had.

And one could even make a case that  smitty and his coaching staff did as well as Quinn’s has with mid-to-lower lower draft picks and especially UDFA. 

 

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19 minutes ago, Vandy said:

This is one of few areas you and I differ on.....its easier to see because Quinn has a lot more say in the draft process than Smith ever had.

And one could even make a case that  smitty and his coaching staff did as well as Quinn’s has with mid-to-lower lower draft picks and especially UDFA. 

 

Smitty had say. Every HC/OC/DC has say. Smitty's say was clearly on display down in Tampa when they added Beau Allen, JPP, and then drafted Vita Vea over Derwin James. Kyle had say on offensive picks when he was here as well. 

Smitty was always focused on stopping the run, right or wrong, and his mid to late round guys were prioritized to be special teamers versus finding guys with upside to be contributors on offense/defense. DQ is hunting for traits and has no issue putting those guys in positions that highlight those traits. 

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4 hours ago, vel said:

Smitty had say. Every HC/OC/DC has say. Smitty's say was clearly on display down in Tampa when they added Beau Allen, JPP, and then drafted Vita Vea over Derwin James. Kyle had say on offensive picks when he was here as well. 

Smitty was always focused on stopping the run, right or wrong, and his mid to late round guys were prioritized to be special teamers versus finding guys with upside to be contributors on offense/defense. DQ is hunting for traits and has no issue putting those guys in positions that highlight those traits. 

He had some say, of course. But that’s not what i said. I said Quinn has had much more say.

I believe both smith and Quinn are/were both good coaches, but with different strengths and weaknesses.

Smith’s strength was never personnel, and everyone knew it when they hired him. It’s part of what made he and TD a good marriage 2008-12, TD got the players and smith coached them. You nor anyone else will ever convince me Smith (a D guy) was the one pounding the table for Ryan, Baker, Julio, Matthews, Gonzo,  Konz et al. We were an offense 1st organization built primarily by the GM. Which BTW was not a bad way to go, based on the team’s successes. Smith brought much needed discipline and mistake-Free football to that equation. We usually were the least penalized team and won in the turnovers margin. And it worked for 5 seasons with best run in team history. (56-24 record).

Like with most franchises, the cap plus some big misses in drafting 2009-12 by TD brought falcons to where they found themselves in 2013-14. All that plus smith was clearly burned out. Tampa doesn’t prove anything other than that. The 2009 Smitty with fire still in his belly would have turned that Tampa D around.

When quinn was hired, culture changed to where coach was given much more say, my educated guess is the most say in personnel. He wouldn’t have taken the job if given same parameters smith had, plus a pretty big deal was made by blank on the restructuring of roles. Unlike smith, Quinn was a hot commodity, so he had more leverage with blank.  Plus His strength is personnel. But Quinn has his weaknesses too, which all came to light last season when he too (because of injuries) was left with a bare cubbard. And truth-to-tell, we saw just as bad coaching last year out of Quinn and his staff, which is why most of his staff got fired and replaced. Which IMO all came down from Blank.. 

the problem with the falcons and for Quinn today....IMO....is heading into year 5 of Quinn, we are still primarily a strong offense/weak defensive team, which is not at all what blank expected at this point. It’s why Quinn has dual role of DC this upcoming year. Can’t say I blame him either, the pressure has gone up a few notches.

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