gazoo

The Reason TD,DQ and Blank all said we had to get bigger on OL

499 posts in this topic

20 minutes ago, gazoo said:

Again, I’m talking about the interior of the Falcons OL vs interior of Brees OL.

What Brees superior interior  OL has gotten him is far less QB hits and sacks, an ability to step up in pocket and quickly release the ball when edge pressure is coming. 

What Ryans inferior interior OL has gotten him is dam near killed. It’s robbed him of the ability to step forward under pressure, instead the pressure is collapsing the pocket and forcing him to escape wheel running around the field looking for a receiver downfield and getting criticized by fans for “holding the ball too long”.  It’s cause and effect. He holds to ball while he’s running from defenders. Brees steps forward under pressure and can get rid of ball quickly.

 

 

So? 

It still hasn’t gotten him anywhere Matt hasn’t been. 

You guys have made way too big a deal about our OL. If it was the end-all be-all you and TAFT make it out to be, Brees would have 2-3 more rings as would Arod and cowgirls would have a fistful. 

Until Levitre got old and Schraeder got broken, our OL was upper tier NFL. And admit it or not, our RBs were as big a problem last year as our OL was.

Ryan doesn’t have his rings due to bad situational head coaching and bad defenses throughout his career, not because of his OL. 

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51 minutes ago, Vandy said:

I’ve stayed out of this, but I will ask this question:

What exactly has Brees superior OL gotten him? His one and only ring is tainted by bounty-gate. 

And we all know Matt should have his in ‘16.

Seems like the much more compelling argument would be QBs who actually have more than one single SB ring. (Brady, Roethlisberger, Manning)

Brees and Rodgers have garbage defenses. And imho the NFC is a little bit weaker now than it was 5-10 years ago. I think the Falcons could go back to the super bowl 2 more times before Matt Ryan retires. 3 if we're real lucky. All the elite QB's are getting older or banged up and the teams with thr best defenses have a weak QB. If the Falcons can protect Matt Ryan and Dan Quinn brings his wisdom to our defense we have a very good chance to win a ring or two. 

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Just now, Falcons Fan MVP said:

Brees and Rodgers have garbage defenses. And imho the NFC is a little bit weaker now than it was 5-10 years ago. I think the Falcons could go back to the super bowl 2 more times before Matt Ryan retires. 3 if we're real lucky. All the elite QB's are getting older or banged up and the teams with thr best defenses have a weak QB. If the Falcons can protect Matt Ryan and Dan Quinn brings his wisdom to our defense we have a very good chance to win a ring or two. 

Thats my point. They (Brees, Rodgers and Ryan) don’t have more rings because of bad defenses, not because of their OL’s. 

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3 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Thats my point. They (Brees, Rodgers and Ryan) don’t have more rings because of bad defenses, not because of their OL’s. 

Well Matt Ryan is getting older so we definitely got to invest in protecting him.

If our offensive line plays well we can hold on to leads better and keep the defense more rested. In the SB 51 even though we were knuckleheads and kept passing we still would have won if they didn't get pressure and strip sack Ryan and sack him out of fg range. Mack and Matthews were banged up.

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Luckily, the NFL next gen stats provide a good context. 

2016: 

Ryan :

IAY (intended Air Yards) 9, CAY (Completed Air Yards) : 7.2 . Difference is 1.8. Air Yards to sticks(AYTS): -0.2 Aggressive % : 21.

Brees: 

IAY: 7.6  , CAY : 6.2. Difference is -1.4 and AYTS : -1

2018

Ryan : IAY : 8.5, CAY: 6.5 Difference: -2.0. AYTS : -0.5 Agg% 16

Brees: IAY :7.1 CAY: 5.9 Difference: -1.2.AYTS: : -1.7

What does this mean? 

Ryan In 2016 attempted more yards in air and completed Air Yards difference was only 1.5. He also threw the ball closer to the sticks -0.2 in 2016. In 2018, his attempted air yards were shorter but also his completed Air Yards went down with difference of -2.0. 

Bottom line: Ryan through shorter in 2018 and couldn’t complete deeper running for his life. Also his Aggressive% went down compared to 2016. 

Brees has been dink and dunk guy for last 3 years depending on skill players to get YAC. If there is any QB who depends more on the weapons it’s Brees now. 

FalconsIn2020, gazoo, athell and 1 other like this

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11 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Thats my point. They (Brees, Rodgers and Ryan) don’t have more rings because of bad defenses, not because of their OL’s. 

Brees had top defense in last two years though. But Brees is now more dependent on his weapons making plays.

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8 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Thats my point. They (Brees, Rodgers and Ryan) don’t have more rings because of bad defenses, not because of their OL’s.

so in other words our offense can be our best defense by keeping the defense on the side line and letting them rest so they can play their fast style. We should have a good chance at a ring with Dan Quinn as our defensive coordinator, our explosive offense and a team that wants revenge for SB 51 as badly as we do.

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Just now, falcons007 said:

Brees had top defense in last two years though. But Brees is now more dependent on his weapons making plays.

The Saints had some bad luck the last 2 years. Luck is another thing you need to win a championship even if you're the Patriots.

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This is a fantastic post for many reasons. 

1. We have had issues protecting Matt in even some of his best statistical seasons. The stats and wins masked the fact that Matt was doing more with less on the OL. 

**Side note** So so many complained that we didnt invest heavily enough into the OL for the bulk of Matt's career....its ironic that some of the same posters advocating that in the early/mid years of his career were expressing disdain for drafting 2 OL in 1st round this year. 

Anywho.....I couldnt be more excited to see the front office show "urgency" to address the problem. I love that the operative word all offseason was also "urgent".  

Lets hope our guys bend around the learning curve as swiftly as possible. We also have veteran depth so that we arent scouring the waiver wire or the highly unimpressive pool of FAs left for that. 

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43 minutes ago, Stryka said:

This is a fantastic post for many reasons. 

1. We have had issues protecting Matt in even some of his best statistical seasons. The stats and wins masked the fact that Matt was doing more with less on the OL. 

**Side note** So so many complained that we didnt invest heavily enough into the OL for the bulk of Matt's career....its ironic that some of the same posters advocating that in the early/mid years of his career were expressing disdain for drafting 2 OL in 1st round this year. 

Anywho.....I couldnt be more excited to see the front office show "urgency" to address the problem. I love that the operative word all offseason was also "urgent".  

Lets hope our guys bend around the learning curve as swiftly as possible. We also have veteran depth so that we arent scouring the waiver wire or the highly unimpressive pool of FAs left for that. 

Great observations Stryka. We really did show urgency in fixing the OL. 

My first hope is the see the return of a pocket for Ryan to step up into and throw ball when under pressure, particularly in obvious passing situations like Brees and Brady and other top pocket passers enjoy.

My second hope is that our OL stop getting abused and shoved around in short yardage and goalline situations. I would love to see, for the first time since we implemented the ZBS, our offensive line knock a defensive line back off the ball at the snap. It’s been a long time since we had an OL tough enough to knock a defensive line back. I think that’s coming.

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9 hours ago, Falcons Fan MVP said:

so in other words our offense can be our best defense by keeping the defense on the side line and letting them rest so they can play their fast style. We should have a good chance at a ring with Dan Quinn as our defensive coordinator, our explosive offense and a team that wants revenge for SB 51 as badly as we do.

So true. I believe we will now have the size, muscle and power on our OL  to ram the ball down defenses throats to finish games off even when they know it’s coming. I believe we now have the size, muscle and power to get tough short yardage runs against the better defenses.

It’s been a long time since we could so that with any consistency, just take over the LOS and impose our will.

This keeps ball in our hands, ball out of opposing teams hands, and keeps our defense fresh. 

 

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12 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Maybe the point you can focus on is Zone system?

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2016/all

2016 Brees was 2nd in the least amount of time to throw of all QBs except Alex Smith.

So, despite attempting about 139 more passes than Ryan, Brees is hit less.

Part of this is we NEED the run game to sell playaction like we ran in 2016.

Your post is incomplete because our run game was a bit better than the Saints in 2016.

Check out the air yards metric. Brees needed less time.

Here is another indicator of why Saints were more built to pass block and more to the point you should hone in on...But I don’t see a reason to tear down the 2016 unit because that should’ve actually won a SB and we do if the coach calls the right plays and or OL doesn’t get hurt etc. :shrug:

Honestly, Kyle was just better than Sark and we gotta let that have its day. 

HOWEVER- That said...NOs OL was a different unit type all together and a bit more pass blocking oriented as a result.

Kyle PREFERRED ZBS for his run game. Issue is Sark wasn’t to same level of detail at installing, coaching, and staying on top of what we needed for that.

Losing Free, Levitre, Chester; with the regressed RS definitely hurt our run game...

Why do none of the overall team numbers add up to 100%.    Are qb sneaks not counted?

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9 hours ago, Falcons Fan MVP said:

The Saints had some bad luck the last 2 years. Luck is another thing you need to win a championship even if you're the Patriots.

Luck sure is a part of winning a championship. An awful lot of things have to roll your way in a  season for you to even get to a Super Bowl.

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So here is what to expect by bigger, stronger OL anchors in their prime, as opposed to 30 to 33 year old smaller guys trying to hold a pocket for Ryan. 

For the first time in years, we will start noticing Ryan being able to step up into a clean pocket consistently in passing situations and release the ball quickly without getting hit as Brees and Brady typically can. Our OL will be better equipped to anchor instead of getting blown back off the LOS and thrown around like rag dolls when defenses know we are going to pass.

Say all you want about Ryan “holding the ball too long” but when a QB is constantly being flushed out of a collapsing pocket and chased by defenders while buying time with his feet to find an open receiver down field to make a play, of course stats will show he doesn’t release the ball as fast as a QB like Brees or Brady who can simply step  forward under pressure and dump the ball off without being touched.

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9 hours ago, Falcons Fan MVP said:

The Saints had some bad luck the last 2 years. 

Karma.

Plus I don’t want to hear about any other franchises “bad luck” excuses, least of all that one’s. 

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9 hours ago, Falcons Fan MVP said:

so in other words our offense can be our best defense by keeping the defense on the side line and letting them rest so they can play their fast style. We should have a good chance at a ring with Dan Quinn as our defensive coordinator, our explosive offense and a team that wants revenge for SB 51 as badly as we do.

It’s a plan.

Building a stout defense is IMO a better one. 

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11 minutes ago, Smiler11 said:

We had to get better on the OL, not necessarily bigger.

When Blank said we had to get “bigger”, he followed that up with how we had to get more physical, more powerful, stronger, more aggressive, meaner.  

Of course that is all implied by his statement.  

If all Blank meant was we had to get fatter, he would just fatten up all our current OL with a sumo wrestler diet. 

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15 hours ago, takeitdown said:

2016 line was overall a pretty good line, but mostly in zone run blocking.

Ryan has consistently had much less of a pocket than the likes of Brees and Brady.  It's the most consistently frustrating part of watching to me.

The other most consistently frustrating part is we don't do to other QBs what everyone does to ours.

THIS! THIS! THIS!

:bang:

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