gazoo

The Reason TD,DQ and Blank all said we had to get bigger on OL

499 posts in this topic

10 minutes ago, gazoo said:

Agree with most everything you are saying. I do think Kaleb is a 317lb mauler and Shraeder was a 300lb more athletic than power, so I think a big difference in these two. 

No question Lindstrom is only 5 pounds heavier than Chester, but Chester was 33 years old and had lost much of his functional strength. I think the change brings more power and a better ability to anchor to hold a pocket. 

Levitre was a dam good LG for us, but I am glad now that he’s gone we got bigger/stronger and the expense of a little less mobility.

I want more than anything for Ryan to start enjoying a clean pocket on more occasion. Ryan with a clean pocket is just as lethal as Brees. Ryan, when having to constantly move laterally to avoid pressure loses some of his accuracy.

 

Yeah, McGary is a little taller and heavier according to combine now that you mention it.

Ty is good insurance for any year 1 curve there but Lindstrom should be able to start right away. We got a solid set of veteran TEs to help with the RT situation.

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53 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Bro I wanted to come to your rescue with all the clowns on your tail, but they are right. Ryan threw longer than Brees, Brady and many others. The 20+ yard completion stat includes YAC. The better stat for measuring pass depth is CAY or IAY and Ryan clearly out flanks most of those guys in those categories. That will likely continue with Kutty and Larkey back on the staff. Good luck though.

I hate it when I’m a clown.  Dang you FFS1970

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1 hour ago, gazoo said:

And Brees didn’t? Why was our QB hit virtually twice as much as Brees in 2016 and 2017 yet Brees actually had more 20+ yard completions those years?

Gazoo you do realize a 20 yard completion can be a pass that was thrown 5 yards and the wr ran for 15+ right? 

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1 hour ago, youngbloodz said:

I see why you support who you do. He says he is winning at irrelevant stuff too when in fact he is too ignorant to realize he is losing by creating fake news. Sounds familiar?

The Witch?

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45 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

I’ll take your silence to mean you side with gazoo.  

V7.5

No. He’s wrong, but there’s a lot of wrong about state of falcons OL in this and just about every other thread on that topic. 

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2 hours ago, gazoo said:

And Brees didn’t? Why was our QB hit virtually twice as much as Brees in 2016 and 2017 yet Brees actually had more 20+ yard completions those years?

Simple. He holds the ball longer than Brees. Matt also doesn’t get rid of the ball like Brees. Meaning Matt doesn’t throw the ball away as quickly as Brees will. He’ll look down field as long as he can then take the sack. 

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21 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Gazoo you do realize a 20 yard completion can be a pass that was thrown 5 yards and the wr ran for 15+ right? 

Page 2, friend.  He didn't reply lol

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10 minutes ago, athell said:

Page 2, friend.  He didn't reply lol

Lol. I missed it. Shoulda known one of you guys would’ve pointed that out. 

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5 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Lol. I missed it. Shoulda known one of you guys would’ve pointed that out. 

No worries.  We gotta stick togetha during times like these lol

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47 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Gazoo you do realize a 20 yard completion can be a pass that was thrown 5 yards and the wr ran for 15+ right? 

Yes, of course.it was not meant to be dispositive.  I have access to no other passing stats. But if you watched the Saints play, you know Brees throws mid to deep deep  just as much as Ryan in a given season.

You also will notice Brees almost never has pressure coming up the A gaps and throws from a clean pocket, where Ryan gets consistent pressure up the A gaps and often throws after lateral movement.

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Put Breeze and Brady behind any line we’ve had in 15 years. They would not be as successful as they have been.   Without the best o line coach and perhaps best HC in history, what is a Brady anyway?  And we all know what breeze is without his G-C-G combo:  unable to have time to make throws and get flattened consistently. 

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Just now, VTCrunkler said:

Put Breeze and Brady behind any line we’ve had in 15 years. They would not be as successful as they have been.   Without the best o line coach and perhaps best HC in history, what is a Brady anyway?  And we all know what breeze is without his G-C-G combo:  unable to have time to make throws and get flattened consistently. 

BOOM! I don’t know how anyone could argue otherwise. 

Its about the QB having a  pocket to step up into when under pressure. It prevents hits and sacks. 

It’s not just about pressure, it’s about where pressure comes from. Ryan has to leave the collapsing pocket and gets mauled constantly.

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In 2016 Brees threw  643 passes for a 7.7 YPA, with 70 20 yard  passes

In 2016, Ryan had  534 passes for a 9.3 YPA, with 69 20 yard passes.

Brees had 139 more attempts, with 1.6 yards less per attempt and 1 more 20 yard pass.

Bress did a lot more quick short passes than Ryan that year.

NFL.com

In 2016 Brees had average time to throw at 2.42 second and average air yard per completion of 6.2

Ryan was 2.64 seconds and 7.2 average air yard per completion

So, Ryan consistently held the ball longer and threw it deeper than Brees

NextGenStats

In 2018, Ryan still held the ball longer and threw it further, not by as wide a margin, Ryan also made a lot more pass attempts than Brees in 2018.

 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, gazoo said:

But if you watched the Saints play, you know Brees throws mid to deep deep  just as much as Ryan in a given season.

Wrong.

Dead.  Cheeks.  Wrong.

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1 hour ago, TheFatboi said:

Simple. He holds the ball longer than Brees. Matt also doesn’t get rid of the ball like Brees. Meaning Matt doesn’t throw the ball away as quickly as Brees will. He’ll look down field as long as he can then take the sack. 

You keep dancing around the point.

It seems many here just can’t or won’t admit Brees’s interior offensive line is very good at creating a pocket for Brees to step up into, and Ryan’s offensive line has been wretched, God awful at creating a consistent pocket for him to step up into (in obvious passing situations in particular) since we implemented  the ZBS.

I ‘now this is controversial around here, but a pocket passer plays better if he has a picket to pass from. 

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15 minutes ago, falconidae said:

In 2016 Brees threw  643 passes for a 7.7 YPA, with 70 20 yard  passes

In 2016, Ryan had  534 passes for a 9.3 YPA, with 69 20 yard passes.

Brees had 139 more attempts, with 1.6 yards less per attempt and 1 more 20 yard pass.

Bress did a lot more quick short passes than Ryan that year.

NFL.com

In 2016 Brees had average time to throw at 2.42 second and average air yard per completion of 6.2

Ryan was 2.64 seconds and 7.2 average air yard per completion

So, Ryan consistently held the ball longer and threw it deeper than Brees

NextGenStats

In 2018, Ryan still held the ball longer and threw it further, not by as wide a margin, Ryan also made a lot more pass attempts than Brees in 2018.

 

 

 

 

Which might make up for say, another few sacks and maybe 10 more QB hits in a season. Still doesn’t make up for 50 more QB hits in a season, not remotely close. We’ve also got to ask why Ryan might hold the ball longer than Brees at times.

Its the pocket for Brees, and lack of a pocket for Ryan. There’s your answer. 

A QB with a pocket can step forward and release ball quickly. A QB with defenders in his face has to move around laterally, escaping the collapsing pocket which naturally results in him holding the ball longer.

Again, we all saw it, but many refuse to admit it, Brees consistently had a pocket to step up into and throw the ball quickly, Ryan consistently pressure in his face, forcing him to run laterally while escaping the collapsing pocket, hold the ball longer as he looks downfield for a receiver and take far more hits.  

 

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2 minutes ago, gazoo said:

Which might make up for say, another few sacks and maybe 10 more QB hits in a season. Still doesn’t make up for 50 more QB hits in a season, not remotely close. We’ve also got to ask why Ryan might hold the ball longer than Brees at times.

Its the pocket for Brees, and lack of a pocket for Ryan. There’s your answer. 

A QB with a pocket can step forward and release ball quickly. A QB with defenders in his face has to move around laterally which naturally results in him holding the ball longer.

Again, we all saw it, but many refuse to admit it, Brees consistently had a pocket to step up into and throw the ball quickly, Ryan consistently pressure in his face, forcing him to run laterally, hold the ball longer and take far more hits.  

 

And how did you determine "maybe a few more sacks and maybe 10 more hits"? 

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45 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Simple. He holds the ball longer than Brees. Matt also doesn’t get rid of the ball like Brees. Meaning Matt doesn’t throw the ball away as quickly as Brees will. He’ll look down field as long as he can then take the sack. 

See above. When under pressure Brees can step forward into pocket and release.

but when Ryan is under pressure, since interior of pocket is collapsing. He has to step backward and laterally, escaping the broken down pocket then running late really to find a receiver .

Its all about the pocket bro. 

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18 minutes ago, gazoo said:

You keep dancing around the point.

It seems many here just can’t or won’t admit Brees’s interior offensive line is very good at creating a pocket for Brees to step up into, and Ryan’s offensive line has been wretched, God awful at creating a consistent pocket for him to step up into since we implemented  the ZBS.

I ‘now this is controversial around here, but a pocket passer plays better if he has a picket to pass from. 

I’ve stayed out of this, but I will ask this question:

What exactly has Brees superior OL gotten him? His one and only ring is tainted by bounty-gate. 

And we all know Matt should have his in ‘16.

Seems like the much more compelling argument would be QBs who actually have more than one single SB ring. (Brady, Roethlisberger, Manning)

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12 minutes ago, falconidae said:

And how did you determine "maybe a few more sacks and maybe 10 more hits"? 

You don’t seem to want to discuss the different pocket protection  situations of Brees and Ryan. When you can get there,  you’ll understand. It’s all about pocket bro. When you can get there, you will understand.

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