gazoo

The Reason TD,DQ and Blank all said we had to get bigger on OL

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32 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

The main reason they wanted to get bigger up front is to help the running game when we really need it to get those tough yards. Of course protecting Matt is first and foremost so you kill 2 birds with one stone if you protect Matt while getting more stout in the run by adding power to the inside/outside zone running game. It’s more to the line than just protecting Matt. And being that so much of what we do is off playaction and the way we couldn’t run the ball last year the evidence is right in your face. Get better at protecting Matt while getting stringer in the run game. 

Great point.  The running game more than anything protects Ryan.  I’d love some shorter wr route concepts, but Air Cornell isn’t about all that

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7 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Size doesn’t equal better. More smaller backs lead the nfl in rushing historically than bigger backs. John Randall is a small DT. Warren Sapp is a small DT. I like big OL like the next man but if he’s soft as tissue it won’t matter. You STILL have to have ability to move that 320 pound body. Aaron Donald wrecks 300 pounders all day. Speed cannot be measured. Speed beats size all day everyday but if you have a big man with size AND speed, with good technique NOW you’re working with something. So it ain’t just about size. 

Bingo

/thread again

There are so many /thread posts in this thread that it should be done but I'm waiting for the "The point no one is understanding..." post.  It's coming...

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6 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Size doesn’t equal better. More smaller backs lead the nfl in rushing historically than bigger backs. John Randall is a small DT. Warren Sapp is a small DT. I like big OL like the next man but if he’s soft as tissue it won’t matter. You STILL have to have ability to move that 320 pound body. Aaron Donald wrecks 300 pounders all day. Speed cannot be measured. Speed beats size all day everyday but if you have a big man with size AND speed, with good technique NOW you’re working with something. So it ain’t just about size. 

Great football mind/instincts is more essential than elite physical traits IMO.  Rico proves that.

And when the two come together in one person you get Deion Jones or Julio.  

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40 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

The main reason they wanted to get bigger up front is to help the running game when we really need it to get those tough yards. Of course protecting Matt is first and foremost so you kill 2 birds with one stone if you protect Matt while getting more stout in the run by adding power to the inside/outside zone running game. It’s more to the line than just protecting Matt. And being that so much of what we do is off playaction and the way we couldn’t run the ball last year the evidence is right in your face. Get better at protecting Matt while getting stringer in the run game. 

There is no question, in part, a reason they wanted to get bigger, stronger, meaner up front was to help in running game.

But Blank, TD, Ryan and myself and many others on this thread recognize how critical it was to stop Ryan from getting pounded on so much. Below the team expresses the urgency of giving Ryan an OL that can protect him. 

 

 

mcclure_vaughn.png&w=160&h=160&scale=cro

Vaughn McClure
ESPN Staff Writer 

FLOWERY BRANCH, Ga. — Maybe the public didn’t get to see his initial reaction, but Atlanta Falconsquarterback Matt Ryan no doubt smiled with relief at some point during last week’s NFL draft.

At least that’s the impression general manager Thomas Dimitroff left when asked by ESPN if Ryan applauded the organization for drafting a pair of offensive linemen in the first round. Ryan was sacked 42 times last season, the second-highest total in his career.

“He texted me, and actually, he just said, ‘Thanks, I appreciate that a lot, wow,'” Dimitroff said of Ryan’s response.

Protecting their $150 million franchise quarterback had to be the Falcons’ top priority, no matter how many mock drafts had them targeting a defensive tackle or cornerback first. Team owner Arthur Blank hinted at the team’s draft direction when he said in a phone interview, “I think we’ve got to get younger on the offensive line” before mentioning any other position.

Make no mistake about it: We knew what we needed to do this offseason and that was to continue to fortify that line and make sure that we were protecting Matt,” Dimitroff said. “And we weren’t going to run into what we ran into last year.”

 

 

 

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On 5/15/2019 at 6:21 PM, Macintez said:

I’ve been saying this since forever. 

Matt with a solid O-Line is a Super Bowl winning QB. If he had anywhere close to the 2008 O-Line he would have two championships lol. We been needed to get back to that.

We didn't win in 2008 tho....

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8 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Great point.  The running game more than anything protects Ryan.  I’d love some shorter wr route concepts, but Air Cornell isn’t about all that

It has become clear to me you disagree with us fortifying the OL over the defense, so your arguments are all designed to support your predetermined position that it was wrong to draft OL. You just won’t accept that obvious fact Ryan’s horrible pass protection needed to be addressed and was causing him to get hit way too much.

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16 minutes ago, gazoo said:

There is no question, in part, a reason they wanted to get bigger, stronger, meaner up front was to help in running game.

But Blank, TD, Ryan and myself and many others on this thread recognize how critical it was to stop Ryan from getting pounded on so much. Below the team expresses the urgency of giving Ryan an OL that can protect him. 

 

 

mcclure_vaughn.png&w=160&h=160&scale=cro

Vaughn McClure
ESPN Staff Writer 

FLOWERY BRANCH, Ga. — Maybe the public didn’t get to see his initial reaction, but Atlanta Falconsquarterback Matt Ryan no doubt smiled with relief at some point during last week’s NFL draft.

At least that’s the impression general manager Thomas Dimitroff left when asked by ESPN if Ryan applauded the organization for drafting a pair of offensive linemen in the first round. Ryan was sacked 42 times last season, the second-highest total in his career.

“He texted me, and actually, he just said, ‘Thanks, I appreciate that a lot, wow,'” Dimitroff said of Ryan’s response.

Protecting their $150 million franchise quarterback had to be the Falcons’ top priority, no matter how many mock drafts had them targeting a defensive tackle or cornerback first. Team owner Arthur Blank hinted at the team’s draft direction when he said in a phone interview, “I think we’ve got to get younger on the offensive line” before mentioning any other position.

Make no mistake about it: We knew what we needed to do this offseason and that was to continue to fortify that line and make sure that we were protecting Matt,” Dimitroff said. “And we weren’t going to run into what we ran into last year.”

 

 

 

Where in that quote, gazoo, does Quinn, TD, anyone (other than yourself and the bs narrative you are pushing) mention "bigger, stronger, meaner?"  You keep claiming one thing, and then post an article that fails to mention it once lol.  

#gazoo'd

Again.  For the BILLIONTH time.  You keep pushing this size thing and in the grand scheme of things it means nothing compared to actual ability in protecting the QB.

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12 minutes ago, gazoo said:

It has become clear to me you disagree with us fortifying the OL over the defense, so your arguments are all designed to support your predetermined position that it was wrong to draft OL. You just won’t accept that obvious fact Ryan’s horrible pass protection needed to be addressed and was causing him to get hit way too much.

OH THE IRONY...OH OH OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Lock this **** down...THIS POST...THIS POST RIGHT HERE is /thread

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19 minutes ago, gazoo said:

It has become clear to me you disagree with us fortifying the OL over the defense, so your arguments are all designed to support your predetermined position that it was wrong to draft OL. You just won’t accept that obvious fact Ryan’s horrible pass protection needed to be addressed and was causing him to get hit way too much.

Ryan doesn’t require a perfect pocket and elite weapons to thrive.  He is great outside the pocket and on the run.  Perhaps his most underrated quality

 

Arizona Cardinals corner Patrick Peterson, whose team lost 38-19 to the Falcons in Week 12, said one of the best things Ryan does is throw on the run. Whether he's moving in the pocket or on a bootleg outside of it, Peterson said Ryan is special on the move.

"What makes him so different, and Rodgers does this as well, is the way he's able to throw the ball outside the pocket," Peterson said. "To get outside and square your shoulders and throw deep is tough to do. But he is so good at it."

"His running and the way he can scramble to throw is a little under the radar," Denver Broncos corner Chris Harris Jr., said.

 

The NFL defenders I talked with at the Pro Bowl last week in Orlando have an entirely different take. They are unanimous: Ryan is elite.

"Matt Ryan has been elite," Seattle Seahawks defensive end Michael Bennett said. "Writers and TV guys try and pick who is elite and who isn't. But they are wrong here. Matt Ryan is an elite quarterback and he's been that way for a long time."

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On 5/15/2019 at 6:21 PM, Macintez said:

I’ve been saying this since forever. 

Matt with a solid O-Line is a Super Bowl winning QB. If he had anywhere close to the 2008 O-Line he would have two championships lol. We been needed to get back to that.

Dan Marino never got sacked and has no Superbowl.   Defense wins championships and sometimes its kicking the field goal instead of passing in the redzone...

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13 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

"Matt Ryan has been elite," Seattle Seahawks defensive end Michael Bennett said. "Writers and TV guys try and pick who is elite and who isn't. But they are wrong here. Matt Ryan is an elite quarterback and he's been that way for a long time."

This is why I've always been confused as to why writers and media guys pick HOFers. It makes absolutely no sense. It's not about talent or ability, but who was more favored during their time. 

Prime example is TO. He's a first ballot HOFer everyday of the week but had to "wait" because the media didn't like how he treated them or acted. That shouldn't have one bit of factor, but it's a driving factor. 

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Just now, vel said:

This is why I've always been confused as to why writers and media guys pick HOFers. It makes absolutely no sense. It's not about talent or ability, but who was more favored during their time. 

Great point.  It ought to be a panel of former NFL coaches and players

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2 minutes ago, vel said:

This is why I've always been confused as to why writers and media guys pick HOFers. It makes absolutely no sense. It's not about talent or ability, but who was more favored during their time. 

Blind votes where you see just stats and win %, no names, Ryan would be a clear HOF!er

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6 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Great point.  It ought to be a panel of former NFL coaches and players

Yep. They know who was actually good and why. Media guys factor in things that just don't matter and most have never actually played the dam sport, which is the most tragic of them all. 

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@gazoo

Can we put this to rest by all agreeing that if our OL is vastly improved, it won’t be due to height & weight, but rather because we have better football players on the OL

Would I have preferred addressing the defense?  Yes., But Lindstrom & Kaleb sjouke have wonderful NFL careers.  And I think we double dipped to use Pioli’s expertise evaluating OL while we still could

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7 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Blind votes where you see just stats and win %, no names, Ryan would be a clear HOF!er

Eh, I agree with you to a degree but stats can be misleading on their own.  Coaches and players (not grumpy old writers with agendas) should absolutely have a say like yourself and @vel are suggesting.  Think it needs to be on field production + where that player ranked with his peers during his tenure to get in + accolades (SB wins/MVPs/AllPro's/etc).

Then of course the counter is a guy like Heath Evans who also is pushing agendas and I just don't know what the solution is...

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21 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Ryan doesn’t require a perfect pocket and elite weapons to thrive.  He is great outside the pocket and on the run.  Perhaps his most underrated quality

 

Arizona Cardinals corner Patrick Peterson, whose team lost 38-19 to the Falcons in Week 12, said one of the best things Ryan does is throw on the run. Whether he's moving in the pocket or on a bootleg outside of it, Peterson said Ryan is special on the move.

"What makes him so different, and Rodgers does this as well, is the way he's able to throw the ball outside the pocket," Peterson said. "To get outside and square your shoulders and throw deep is tough to do. But he is so good at it."

"His running and the way he can scramble to throw is a little under the radar," Denver Broncos corner Chris Harris Jr., said.

 

The NFL defenders I talked with at the Pro Bowl last week in Orlando have an entirely different take. They are unanimous: Ryan is elite.

"Matt Ryan has been elite," Seattle Seahawks defensive end Michael Bennett said. "Writers and TV guys try and pick who is elite and who isn't. But they are wrong here. Matt Ryan is an elite quarterback and he's been that way for a long time."

I totally agree, Ryan is awesome once flushed out of the pocket. He’s got more experience than Brees or Brady of getting forced out of a collapsing pocket, running away from defenders in hot pursuit as he locates a receiver down field.

This is why I believe the critics claiming Ryan should just throw it away when his pocket collapses are large wrong. 

But that doesn’t mean he isn’t as effective IN the pocket. Ryan is lethal when given a pocket to step up into and throw, even with deep balls just as Brees is. 

So why would you let your $150 million dollar franchise QB keep getting hit way more than necessary by him being forced out of the collapsing pocket so Much? 

Why wouldn’t you prefer Ryan stay in a protective pocket on many more of the 600 plus passing snaps and NOT take 30 or 49 more hits than other pocket QBs that do have pockets to step up into?

 

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1 minute ago, athell said:

Eh, I agree with you to a degree but stats can be misleading on their own.  Coaches and players (not grumpy old writers with agendas) should absolutely have a say like yourself and @vel are suggesting.  Think it needs to be on field production + where that player ranked with his peers during his tenure to get in + accolades (SB wins/MVPs/AllPro's/etc).

Then of course the counter is a guy like Heath Evans who also is pushing agendas and I just don't know what the solution is...

Exactly. It shouldn't be purely left to media voters. Matt Ryan has held his own with his peers for years now, but people would call you asinine if you say he's been better than Rodgers. Ignoring the facts, they'd just go back to his 2011 season and how he was godlike and not focus on recent history. Matt has been a top 3-5 QB the last several years, but is consistently picked over for the "hot" guy like Wentz, Goff, and Mayfield. 

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1 hour ago, gazoo said:

There is no question, in part, a reason they wanted to get bigger, stronger, meaner up front was to help in running game.

But Blank, TD, Ryan and myself and many others on this thread recognize how critical it was to stop Ryan from getting pounded on so much. Below the team expresses the urgency of giving Ryan an OL that can protect him. 

 

 

mcclure_vaughn.png&w=160&h=160&scale=cro

Vaughn McClure
ESPN Staff Writer 

FLOWERY BRANCH, Ga. — Maybe the public didn’t get to see his initial reaction, but Atlanta Falconsquarterback Matt Ryan no doubt smiled with relief at some point during last week’s NFL draft.

At least that’s the impression general manager Thomas Dimitroff left when asked by ESPN if Ryan applauded the organization for drafting a pair of offensive linemen in the first round. Ryan was sacked 42 times last season, the second-highest total in his career.

“He texted me, and actually, he just said, ‘Thanks, I appreciate that a lot, wow,'” Dimitroff said of Ryan’s response.

Protecting their $150 million franchise quarterback had to be the Falcons’ top priority, no matter how many mock drafts had them targeting a defensive tackle or cornerback first. Team owner Arthur Blank hinted at the team’s draft direction when he said in a phone interview, “I think we’ve got to get younger on the offensive line” before mentioning any other position.

Make no mistake about it: We knew what we needed to do this offseason and that was to continue to fortify that line and make sure that we were protecting Matt,” Dimitroff said. “And we weren’t going to run into what we ran into last year.”

 

 

 

I don’t care how much you wrap it and dress it Matt will still get hit. Especially with the way we feature the long ball. The one thing THIS line will fortify is the ability to step UP into the long throws without having a defender in your lap or even your own line guy. Matt is still gonna get hit tho. Especially in those long pass pass concepts. Protecting Matt also means if we get hit with a rash of injuries again we won’t fall of the Map protecting him. Like last year. Matt would’ve been just fine had the line not been hit with injuries. The addition of brown and carpenter and the drafting of McGary and Lindstrom says that. We’re not gonna go from good line to sh*t if we lose guys. And I don’t ever give a sh*t about a writer trying to sell papers and get clicks. 

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1 minute ago, vel said:

Exactly. It shouldn't be purely left to media voters. Matt Ryan has held his own with his peers for years now, but people would call you asinine if you say he's been better than Rodgers. Ignoring the facts, they'd just go back to his 2011 season and how he was godlike and not focus on recent history. Matt has been a top 3-5 QB the last several years, but is consistently picked over for the "hot" guy like Wentz, Goff, and Mayfield. 

Yes sir!

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3 minutes ago, athell said:

Eh, I agree with you to a degree but stats can be misleading on their own.  Coaches and players (not grumpy old writers with agendas) should absolutely have a say like yourself and @vel are suggesting.  Think it needs to be on field production + where that player ranked with his peers during his tenure to get in + accolades (SB wins/MVPs/AllPro's/etc).

Then of course the counter is a guy like Heath Evans who also is pushing agendas and I just don't know what the solution is...

Despite his stupid narrative, Heath Would take the responsibility very seriously and do the right thing

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Just now, Falconsin2012 said:

Despite his stupid narrative, Heath Would take the responsibility very seriously and do the right thing

I'm not so sure :lol:

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3 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Picking in the 1st two rounds isn’t essential.  Here is the average draft spot for All Pros

Average Pick
Defensive Line — 40.1
Linebacker — 43.8
Defense — 43.9
Quarterback — 46.3
Defensive Back — 47.5
Running Back — 49.2
Tight End — 49.5
Overall — 52.7
Offensive Line — 58.7
Offense — 62.4
Wide Receiver — 97.0

All pros? Lol. We had all scrubs, give me good quality contributors in first two rounds. This line needs good solid contributors. 

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1 minute ago, Falconsin2012 said:

@gazoo

Can we put this to rest by all agreeing that if our OL is vastly improved, it won’t be due to height & weight, but rather because we have better football players on the OL

Would I have preferred addressing the defense?  Yes., But Lindstrom & Kaleb sjouke have wonderful NFL careers.

Sure, my OP makes that clear. It’s a combination of bigger, stronger, meaner and more explosive power to hold at the piece of poop.

Look at the vertical leaps of Lindstrom and McGary. They are not just bigger, they have a lot more explosive power, and THAT is what you need to be able to anchor and hold a protective pocket for your QB. When big strong DT bull rush you, it’s not a matter of how many times you can bench press 225lbs, it’s a combination of mass (size), overall strength, and especially explosive strength to be able to hold at POA.

And some of you seem to think size doesn’t matter at all. There is a reason you don’t see any 180lb OL into NFL, size (mass) certainly IS part of it. And no one here ever said size was the only thing that mattered, that’s the straw man argument. My OP makes that quite clear.

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1 minute ago, gazoo said:

Sure, my OP makes that clear. It’s a combination of bigger, stronger, meaner and more explosive power to hold at the piece of poop.

Look at the vertical leaps of Lindstrom and McGary. They are not just bigger, they have a lot more explosive power, and THAT is what you need to be able to anchor and hold a protective pocket for your QB. When big strong DT bull rush you, it’s not a matter of how many times you can bench press 225lbs, it’s a combination of mass (size), overall strength, and especially explosive strength to be able to hold at POA.

And some of you seem to think size doesn’t matter at all. There is a reason you don’t see any 180lb OL into NFL, size (mass) certainly IS part of it. And no one here ever said size was the only thing that mattered, that’s the straw man argument. My OP makes that quite clear.

You just answered your own question in part to why he gets hit more. He holds the ball longer to make a big play. Like I said some of his hits are self induced for the better of the team. Brees throws the ball away. So does Tom and that’s ok. Matt and Rodgers don’t so much. And that’s ok too. Just be prepared to take some extra hits. 

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