gazoo

The Reason TD,DQ and Blank all said we had to get bigger on OL

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3 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

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Allen will start at strong safety for the Falcons, D. Orlando Ledbetter of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports.

It looked early as though Allen would play free safety and Damontae Kazee would move into strong safety, but that was not the case in Week 1 and doesn't appear to be in the conversation moving forward. Defensive coordinator Marquan Manuel also said that he will play in the box, suggesting he could be in line for a boost in tackles this season.

I don’t care what that article said. What I SAW was Rico at FS and kazee and Richards splitting SS duties. Kazee was ejected from the Carolina game playing SS. Don’t ever show me a D Led written article again. Lol. I trust my eyes better than any article written.  

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2 minutes ago, runshoot said:

I Maybe overselling it, but I don't believe in him. I think he will be just as effective as McClain was (not at all). I think this Defense will be bottom 3rd again but the offense will mask the issues due to winning shootouts.

It makes me online mad. :argh::argh:

 

Hold your opinion until the season.  Give him a chance.  Think you will be pleasantly surprised.  McClain was awful.  Davidson is a legit solid run stuffer.

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14 hours ago, gazoo said:

BOOM! I don’t know how anyone could argue otherwise. 

Its about the QB having a  pocket to step up into when under pressure. It prevents hits and sacks. 

It’s not just about pressure, it’s about where pressure comes from. Ryan has to leave the collapsing pocket and gets mauled constantly.

It’s a fact pretty much that Ryan gets hit way more than the other guys. Even Big Ben. When Brady gets pressure he throws it away so fast because he has confidence in the next play. Matt is holding on to the ball trying to make plays.  

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18 hours ago, Macintez said:

As deadly as our passing game was in 2016, if we had an O-Line we would’ve been able to run at will. Our backfield had the talent where we could’ve had about another 3-400 more total rushing yards if they would’ve been effective enough.

As long as 3rd and 1 is no longer a nail-biter I'll be happy...

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50 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Not to be contrary, Vel.  But wouldn’t you agree that both Brown & Carpenter, despite their size, are below average run blockers?  Neither graded over 55 in run blocking last year

And Brown isn’t any better in pass pro.  He committed a concerning eight penalties during the 2018 campaign. “He allowed his quarterbacks to be pressured a whopping 19 times, despite the fact that he started just half the season. 12 of those pressures resulted in quarterback hurries and he allowed the quarterback to be hit 4 times. He also allowed three sacks. Pro Football Focus gave Brown a grade of just 53.5 as a pass blocker. He didn’t fare much better in the run game, grading just 54.1. Overall he was given a grade of only 50.7 out of a possible 99.9. I would consider that a D- performance.”

Honestly, I expect Brown/Carpenter to be the "worst" starter on the OL. That's not a bad thing. He's been inconsistent to this point in his career, which is why he was a FA in the first place. But he has upside and is back in a scheme he knows. Here's a snapshot into that inconsistency:

Also, here's from SBNation's Rams writer discussing Brown for the Giants blog:

 

Quote

 

Ed: Give us a scouting report. Strengths? Weaknesses?

Brandon: He’s struggled in the run game at times, but has proven to be a very strong pass blocker. To be fair though, the entire right side of the Rams’ line was struggling in run blocking at one time. And that’s not to say he’s a poor run blocker, because he’s certainly come a long way since his rookie year.

Take PFF grades for what they are, but if you’re buying what they’re selling, Brown ranked 11th out of all offensive guards as a pass blocker in the final three weeks of the 2017 season (in which he allowed 0 QB pressures).

You’re certainly more familiar with what the Giants are working with at guard, but Jamon is a very well-rounded player, and one worthy of a starting spot on just about any NFL roster.

 

Don't care what he did with the Giants because that's not what he's going to be doing here. Also, he'll be on a much better OL. I see him as a poor man's Justin Blalock at the very best, which isn't a knock at all. Just means he'll likely be a wall in pass pro and get moderate movement in the run game, but his second level blocking was decent enough at times in LA to put him over Carpenter. 

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14 hours ago, gazoo said:

Notice these guys won’t admit Brees has excellent interior OL pocket protection to step up into and quickly release the ball and Ryan has had abysmal pocket protection from his leading him to have to escape the pocket and run around the field try8mg to find an open receiver?

They know deep in their hearts this is why Ryan is forced to hold the ball longer, why he takes so many more sacks and hits, they know it’s the interior of our OL getting pushed back into Ryan’s feet and defenders shooting the A gaps in passing situations  at the source of this....so they just pretend all pressures are exactly the same. 

When I was reading the op it I thought you may have been cutting and pasting from another article it was that good. 

Yes. I think deep down there in many fans minds and hearts know that our line has never really been that good. We’ve tried to address that. We’ve definitely invested in it. The line is what makes Big Ben and breeze and Brady. Big Ben improvises and is very hard to tackle. But I’ve always thought the Steelers o linemen were on roids.  The guards and tackles are built like the mountain from game of thrones. 

It seems counterintuitive about the o line in 2016. I’ve kinda thought that was our best o line performance. But upon closer inspection I think we had trouble pushing it on short yardage. And I’ll have to look back at the types of pressure Matt got. 

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6 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

I don’t care what that article said. What I SAW was Rico at FS and kazee and Richards splitting SS duties. Kazee was ejected from the Carolina game playing SS. Don’t ever show me a D Led written article again. Lol. I trust my eyes better than any article written.  

I mean, it quotes the DC who said they considered Kazee at SS but decided on Rico.  And that Rico would play in the box...it’s not D-Led’s opinion.  It’s a direct quote from Manuel

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2 minutes ago, vel said:

Honestly, I expect Brown/Carpenter to be the "worst" starter on the OL. That's not a bad thing. He's been inconsistent to this point in his career, which is why he was a FA in the first place. But he has upside and is back in a scheme he knows. Here's a snapshot into that inconsistency:

Also, here's from SBNation's Rams writer discussing Brown for the Giants blog:

 

Don't care what he did with the Giants because that's not what he's going to be doing here. Also, he'll be on a much better OL. I see him as a poor man's Justin Blalock at the very best, which isn't a knock at all. Just means he'll likely be a wall in pass pro and get moderate movement in the run game, but his second level blocking was decent enough at times in LA to put him over Carpenter. 

Fair assessment.  Thanks for the info.  I always trust your football IQ

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4 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

I mean, it quotes the DC who said they considered Kazee at SS but decided on Rico.  And that Rico would play in the box...it’s not D-Led’s opinion.  It’s a direct quote from Manuel

But what I SAW was Rico at FS and kazee at SS. Maybe a play or 2 Rico went in the box for a run look but he most def played FS. Also there’s a thing of not giving your opponent and edge.     

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14 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

But what I SAW was Rico at FS and kazee at SS. Maybe a play or 2 Rico went in the box for a run look but he most def played FS. Also there’s a thing of not giving your opponent and edge.     

Not saying you’re wrong.  You know more football than I ever will.   I just go by what the coaches say in their pressers.  Maybe Rico switched around.  

“Kazee has started the last two games at free safety, while Allen was taking on more of Neal’s strong safety role. Jordan Richards was being groomed to play more of the strong safety role in the box. 

But when asked about strong safety, Quinn did not answer directly, suggesting more moves for the secondary. 

“We’ll go there,” Quinn said looking at strong safeties. “(Keith) Tandy is here. (Kemal Ishmael) has a background in that as well. We’ve got some candidates for that spot. We have to work some guys in behind Kazee. That will be an area of focus for us this week.” 

https://www.ajc.com/sports/football/falcons-will-try-move-without-allen/kjOoJRlOdZ5lQB1KK1x45H/

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57 minutes ago, VTCrunkler said:

It’s a fact pretty much that Ryan gets hit way more than the other guys. Even Big Ben. When Brady gets pressure he throws it away so fast because he has confidence in the next play. Matt is holding on to the ball trying to make plays.  

But that’s on Matt.  He needs to believe in the next play and get rid of the ball to take care of himself

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Just now, Falconsin2012 said:

But that’s on Matt.  He needs to believe in the next play and get rid of the ball to take care of himself

This is also a true story. He doesn’t seem like he is a believer in the next play and tries to do so much in one chunk. 

I do remember a year where he was throwing it away and he was labeled captain checkdown etc etc.  

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19 hours ago, gazoo said:

I keep being told how difficult of a leap it will be for our 2019 OL to play anywhere near as good as our 2016 OL, since our 2016 OL was the “best in the NFL” etc. 

While I concede it was very good, I don’t see it being as big a leap as others at being better in 2019.

Our 2016 OL wasnt that great at all. Kyle was just good and better at calling plays to MAKE Matt get the ball out of his hands quicker. When Sark came, Matt reverted to holding the ball longer again.

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18 hours ago, gazoo said:

Here is a quote from Balnk

“This is my 19th year as an owner and one of the things I’ve learned is that Matt [Ryan] plays much better vertically than horizontally,” Blank told the Falcons website. 

“I don’t think we’re complete in terms of the offensive line. I think it’ll be an area of great scrutiny and activity during the draft.”

For pocket QBs, it matters where that pressure is coming from. It matters a lot.

OLs of Brees and  Brady have most years made sure to have good strong interior OL who can anchor at point of attack and hold a pocket. 

I keep saying, my biggest issue here is Ryan having the interior of his OL collapse in on his feet. You do not see that happening to Brees or Brady hardly ever. If heat is coming off the edges, even if it’s immediate heat, Brady and Brees  just casually take. step forward and dump the ball off. 

Ryan, without a clean pocket to step into, often has to move laterally when pressure comes and it creates far more QB hits and sacks this way. 

 

 

 

You do know the Patriots OL was not very good in 2017.  Brady was the 6th most sacked QB in the NFL.  He was on pace for 32 sacks in 2016 but missed 4 games

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19 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

@gazoo

Kyle Shannahan has the longest wide receiver route tree in professional football.  That’s why Ryan was sacked in 2016.

If you think 2018 OL was better, we can’t have a serious discussion.

Kyle makes you throw to a spot, not a person. Regardless of the tree. Matt holds the ball too much waiting on a person.

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18 hours ago, athell said:

Time to throw and literally all the air yards advanced metrics say otherwise.  This just tells me you watch zero football.  Drew Brees has been dinking and dunking down the field for several seasons now.  Their entire passing game is predicated on getting the ball out quickly with short passes to their backs and wr's.

You literally have no idea what you are talking about.

EXACTLY!!!!!

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10 minutes ago, Flying Falcon said:

Kyle makes you throw to a spot, not a person. Regardless of the tree. Matt holds the ball too much waiting on a person.

True...but Shanny’s routes take an extra half second to unfold.  It’s why he is so adamant about a 45-55 run pass split.  It makes PA effective, holding the LB’s and giving the OL the extra .5 seconds it needs

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1 hour ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Fair assessment.  Thanks for the info.  I always trust your football IQ

No problem. Always here for differing opinions. Take a look at this video and key on Brown. That's about what I expect from Brown in this offense:

 

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6 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Why do none of the overall team numbers add up to 100%.    Are qb sneaks not counted?

QB runs and any trick plays?

Maybe something like that. Could always tweet him ;) 

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1 hour ago, Falconsin2012 said:

You do know the Patriots OL was not very good in 2017.  Brady was the 6th most sacked QB in the NFL.  He was on pace for 32 sacks in 2016 but missed 4 games

Yes, there have been a couple of seasons in Brady’s  career his OL wasn’t good.

Again, you keep talking about pressure, sacks and hits as a whole without understanding I’m talking specifically about pressure, sacks and hits broken out as a result of a collapsing pocket or A gap penetration specifically.  

If a QB has edge pressure, but a clean pocket to step up into and dump the ball off like most of Brady and Brees pressures come from, he doesn’t get hit as much.

A QB who is chronically flushed out of a collapsing pocket is at a much higher risk of getting mauled and obviously holds the ball longer since he’s being chased by defenders while trying to make a play downfield. Ryan was very good at making huge plays after his pocket collapsed,  it he also paid a steep price in way more hits. Also, when defenders can shoot the A gaps and charge the QB as he’s throwing the ball, they can lay viscous direct impact hits on a QB. 

Any pocket QB!will tell you they’d rather have edge pressure with a clean pocket to step up into than a collapsing pocket flushing them out and putting their bodies at much bigger risk.

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Regardless of how many times Matt got hit. We scored a lot. Everyone remembers a jet sweep on the goal line and hated it. Everyone remembers the failure to score from the 7 yard line. But then everyone conveniently forgets we were 64% scoring in the redzone. People forget we were 10th in scoring and that was with 6 different OGs , 2 RTs, and no pro bowl RB. Our Offense was very good at putting up points and keeping us in games.

The offense wasn't just good last year, it was good even when compared to previous years and NFL averages. It is important to understand how 2018 was a different year for scoring in the NFL. 3 teams scored over 500 pts in 2018. That hasn't happened before. It was such an aberration, we need to look at what a normal offensive scoring season looks like to put our offensive output into perspective.

2018 offensive scoring
KC 565,LAR 527,NO 504,NE 436 in order and then at 10th ATL with 414pts.

So for 2018, 415 points makes us ranked 10th. But in 2017 that same total (414) would have been good for 5th! In 2016 it would have been 7th. In 2014 and 2015 it would have been 8th. You see, we scored well. We've always scored well with a Matt Ryan team. Even with what this thread is calling bad OLines, we scored. Remember our guard problem, our RT problem, our missing pro bowl RB? Something doesn't add up.

That only tells half the story in 2018 because our defense gave up 423 points 8th worst in the league. In 2017 our D gave up 315 points, 8th best ranking. That should end the argument right there. For those of you playing at home, we went into the playoffs in '17 and won and then nearly won in PHI with an offense that was 15th but a defense that was 8th in scoring allowed. Balance! Our Defense performed.

Here is the point if you haven't caught on. Even with a garbage Oline we were 64% redzone scoring and 10th in total points. We lost 4 games by 6 points or less. We blew 4 4th quarter leads. The defense let this team down in a massive way. Yes the injuries hampered this team not only from a talent level but from a coaching level as well. Bad players stayed on the field too long such as Duke and Richards. There was little to no depth on the defense.  The defense though, even when Grady and Debo came back, still gave up a 200 yard rushing game and had 3 other games over 120 yards rushing avg.

To the OP, this offseason we are took our offense which is already doing well and we are now trying to red line the tachometer to squeeze more out of it. In my opinion we really should have just focused on the defense to bring balance to the team. DQ's hubris makes him think he can "fix" this defense with players coming off season ending injuries and no pass rush. KC and LA are the perfect examples of what happens in the playoffs when you try to go big offense and your defense fails you. KC gave up the 9th most points and LA 13th. There sits NE, with 26th least points given up and another championship.

Offense and guards and tackles were not the main issue. Sark was not the main issue. It was the defense. Did the guards need upgrading, YES. Funny how this offense still clicked along with Sark being so hated, 6 starting OGs, 2 starting RTs and missing our pro bowl RB. This offseason we brought in 4 new OL starters, 2 new RBs, a plethora of new TEs and a new WR. Meanwhile, The defense got zero new starters and only a prayer that the injured players recover and are ready and not tentative when playing.

 

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