The Reason TD,DQ and Blank all said we had to get bigger on OL

[gazoo]

While it is true our 2016 OL was very good, It was also in fact one of the worst (statistically)  in the NFL at protecting the QB. Ryan was getting mauled just as much in 2016 as he was in 2018. 

The 2018 offensive line actually improved 2 positions in the standings in sacks allowed from 2016. There ARE some legitimate explanations for some of the 2016 numbers that weren’t on the OL, but the inability of the interior of the OL to hold a pocket in passing situations was getting Ryan killed. Pressures are not all equal, if defenses can get pressure up the middle it’s much harder on a pocket QB than if it comes off the edges and the QB can step into a clean pocket to quickly dump ball off without getting hit.

In 2016, due to Shanny’s excellent ability to gamemplan and attack defenses, a phenomenal QB when under pressure with a quick release, the outstanding and versatile skill position players, we were able to score tons of points quickly despite the underlying weakness of the interior OL. This allowed us to jump up on teams, not have to play from deep holes where defenses knew we had to pass and tee off on us, it kept defenses on their heels most of the time.

But the weakness was still there, and it centered on the interior. Here is some of the proof:

In 2016 regular season Ryan was sacked 37 times and hit 106 times. In 2018 when we all admit our OL was horrible and Ryan was getting the snot beat out of him, Ryan was sacked 42 times and hit 108.  

Ryan was hit only 2 times less in 2016 than 2018.

In 2016, only 5 OLs gave up more QB hits than the Falcons, and only 10 OLs gave up more sacks.

In 2018, only 5 OLs gave up more hits and 12 OLs gave up more sacks. 

Lets  take a look at what other pocket QBs endured the same years

Ryan

2016 - 37 sacks/106 Hits

2018 42 sacks/108 hits

Brees

2016- 27 sacks/70 hits

2017- 20 sacks / 58 hits

2018- 20 sacks/52 hits

Brady  

2016-24 sacks/73 hits

2018- 21 sacks/ 68 hits

Big Ben

2016- 21 sacks/56 hits

2018- 24 sacks/72 hits

 

The offensive lines of all these other pocket QBs were far better at holding a pocket and keeping defenders off their QB than our 2016 OL was.  We’ve all seen, with our own eyes,  these other top QBs most years enjoy nice comfortable pockets to step up into when pressure is coming off edges. The Falcons interior of our OL was getting pushed around in situational football, unable to hold a pocket on 3rd and long, unable to take over a game by blowing defenses back off the ball at point of attack, feckless in short yardage. I was tired of so often not being able to get a tough 3rd and 1 on the ground or getting stuffed so often in goalline situations. 

Sure, we threw a lot of deep balls in 2016, but so did Drew Brees. Brees actually had more 20+ completions in 2016 and 2017 than Ryan in 2016, but was hit 50 times less in 2017 and 54 times less in 2016.  But even more insidious was Brees and Brady almost always had a strong pocket to step up into and dump ball off when pressure was coming off the edges. With Ryan, the pressure often came from his interior OL collapsing and him having to move laterally to escape, being chased by defenders as he ran around the field with the ball looking for a receiver downfield. This led to way more hits and sacks. The collapsing interior pocket also created gaps for blitzers and stunts to get through and lay the hammer on a defenseless but tough and nails Ryan as he was throwing the ball.

These other pocket QBs aren’t taking anywhere near the pounding Ryan has been playing behind the 2016 and 2018 OLs.  In 2016 Our OGs were both older (33 years old and 31 years old) both 303lbs and RT Shraeder was only 300lbs. We replaced them with a 340lb OG, a 321lb OG, and drafted a 327lb RT and an Uber talented 308Lb OG who excels in pass protection.  I don’t see this 2019 OL getting run over by bull rushing DTs as much, robbing Ryan of a pocket to pass from.

Ryan has been getting absolutely killed and TD, DQ and Blank all realized they had to fix the inherent problem of having smallish, more mobile but lighter and less powerful OL. Sure, the zone blocking allows our backs to break long runs if they hit second level, but also makes it difficult to pound out a tough yard on 1st and goal at the 1, or consistently hold a good clean pocket in obvious passing situations like the other pocket QBs enjoy.

[takeitdown]

2016 line was overall a pretty good line, but mostly in zone run blocking.

Ryan has consistently had much less of a pocket than the likes of Brees and Brady.  It's the most consistently frustrating part of watching to me.

The other most consistently frustrating part is we don't do to other QBs what everyone does to ours.

[Macintez]

I’ve been saying this since forever. 

Matt with a solid O-Line is a Super Bowl winning QB. If he had anywhere close to the 2008 O-Line he would have two championships lol. We been needed to get back to that.

[gazoo]

6 hours ago, Macintez said:

I’ve been saying this since forever. 

Matt with a solid O-Line is a Super Bowl winning QB. If he had anywhere close to the 2008 O-Line he would have two championships lol. We been needed to get back to that.

I keep being told how difficult of a leap it will be for our 2019 OL to play anywhere near as good as our 2016 OL, since our 2016 OL was the “best in the NFL” etc. 

While I concede it was very good, I don’t see it being as big a leap as others at being better in 2019.

[youngbloodz]

This is a myth that bigger o linemen means better. You can have a big line and still suck. We going to a bigger o line cause we are going to run more inside zone. That's why

[Macintez]

Just now, gazoo said:

I keep being told how difficult of a leap it will be for our 2019 OL to play anywhere near as good as our 2016 OL, since our 2016 OL was the “best in the NFL” etc. 

While I concede it was very good, it was far from the best. In fact, it was one of the worst in the NFL at protecting our QB and really no better than our 2018 OL was in that respect.

As deadly as our passing game was in 2016, if we had an O-Line we would’ve been able to run at will. Our backfield had the talent where we could’ve had about another 3-400 more total rushing yards if they would’ve been effective enough.

[Cole World]

Curious to know what the run stats was for the teams mentioned. 

 

[gazoo]

6 minutes ago, takeitdown said:

2016 line was overall a pretty good line, but mostly in zone run blocking.

Ryan has consistently had much less of a pocket than the likes of Brees and Brady.  It's the most consistently frustrating part of watching to me.

The other most consistently frustrating part is we don't do to other QBs what everyone does to ours.

You are nailing it. It’s the pocket, Ryan simply has not consistently had a pocket to step up into because his OL get shoved back into his face in passing situations. It was happening in 2016 and 2018 when defenses knew we were going to throw the ball. This was my single biggest complaint of the smaller line. Also watching our entire LOS after the snap get shoved back 3 yards in goalline situations. 

Ryan having a clean pocket will make up for any lost yards we give up by not being quite as mobile at OG. Make no mistake, Carpenter and Brown are still mobile and can get out to second level. 

[FalconsIn2012]

@gazoo

Kyle Shannahan has the longest wide receiver route tree in professional football.  That’s why Ryan was sacked in 2016.

If you think 2018 OL was better, we can’t have a serious discussion.

[youngbloodz]

Just now, Falconsin2012 said:

@gazoo

Kyle Shannahan has the longest wide receiver route tree in professional football.  That’s why Ryan was sacked in 2016.

If you think 2018 OL was better, we can’t have a serious discussion.

Facts sir

[Lethal]

Nobody:

gazoo: There is a myth that exists that our 2016 OL was one of the best in the NFL.../vomits onto keyboard

You act like if you make up the say the same thing over and over and over again, even when NO ONE IS ARGUING WITH YOU ABOUT IT, that it makes you some football guru or something and the smartest person here.  If you were a Native American, your name would be Dead Horse Gazoo.

[gazoo]

51 minutes ago, youngbloodz said:

This is a myth that bigger o linemen means better. You can have a big line and still suck. We going to a bigger o line cause we are going to run more inside zone. That's why

Straw man argument. No one said size is the only factor in rating how good an OG can be. 

Sure, being one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL in 2016 and 2018 protecting the QB has nothing to do with it. 

Matter of fact, when Blank said we had to get bigger on OL so Ryan could have a pocket to step up into, he was trying to trick people. 

[gazoo]

4 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

@gazoo

Kyle Shannahan has the longest wide receiver route tree in professional football.  That’s why Ryan was sacked in 2016.

If you think 2018 OL was better, we can’t have a serious discussion.

Ryan was hit only 2 times less in 2016 than 2018.

Kyle was head coach of the 49ers in 2018.

[FalconsIn2012]

2 minutes ago, gazoo said:

Ryan was hit only 2 times less in 2016 than 2018.

Kyle was head coach of the 49ers in 2018.

You just made my point.

[Ovie_Lover]

So let me get this straight... You told us ALL how great Levitre was gonna be and he was super great just like you said but then our oline was bad in '16? Wut?

[Lethal]

Just now, Yo_Lover said:

So let me get this straight... You told us ALL how great Levitre was gonna be and he was super great just like you said but then our oline was bad in '16? Wut?

He is the smartest person he knows

[gazoo]

9 minutes ago, Cole World said:

Curious to know what the run stats was for the teams mentioned. 

 

I would love to take a look at run stats for specific game situations, such as goalline attempts, short yardage attempts and see how they measure up with power run schemes in same situations. We all know our running game was really productive overall, frequently breaking off long runs. But situational football is the real question.

[gazoo]

1 minute ago, athell said:

He is the smartest person he knows

This level of detail regarding situational football is way over your level of understanding bro. Sorry if it triggers you. 

[Ovie_Lover]

2 minutes ago, gazoo said:

This level of detail regarding situational football is way over your level of understanding bro. Sorry if it triggers you. 

If you have to explain to everyone that you're smart then you're not really smart my guy...

[Lethal]

Just now, gazoo said:

This level of detail regarding situational football is way over your level of understanding bro. Sorry if it triggers you. 

He said "this level of detail" 

gazoo : "Whew, that was the most intense 2 minutes of research I've ever done.  2 stat categories over 2 years!  I've outdone myself this time!"

[Ovie_Lover]

3 minutes ago, gazoo said:

This level of detail regarding situational football is way over your level of understanding bro. Sorry if it triggers you. 

Talks about detail but ignores the fact Shanny uses the longest developing routes in the league..

[Ergo Proxy]

42 minutes ago, takeitdown said:

2016 line was overall a pretty good line, but mostly in zone run blocking.

Ryan has consistently had much less of a pocket than the likes of Brees and Brady.  It's the most consistently frustrating part of watching to me.

The other most consistently frustrating part is we don't do to other QBs what everyone does to ours.

This is part of it but one thing the OP is skimming right over; which lets your QB get hit more is:

Play action; especially from under C...also Designed bootlegs with half field looks (putting Matt with a defender closing to make a hit in open field)

All the while also having a vertical WCO attack by Shanny which in general took longer for routes to develop because he liked the big play

IN CONTRAST: A run oriented offense or a short-mid pass game system by contrast will make those “better looking” pass blocking lines only appear better in these metrics.

2018 was bad because it couldn’t run the ball. 2016 OL all day over that trash unit last year. It was held meagerly together by a franchise LT and stud C. We just scrubbed every bit of the rest, including depth.

Now, if that 2018 OL could’ve ran the ball maybe it would’ve earned itself a chance to look better at pass blocking....but because it couldn’t run the ball too many games of the opposing DL able to ignore a run lane and just go for Ryan happened. Blitz city if it so desired.

I don’t see the purpose in revising history on our 2016 OL??

Issue is we couldn’t replace Levitre when hurt last 2 years; nor Chester AT ALL adequately since he retired, all of that was apparent in 2017 and then RS regression sealed the fate of the OL overturn need once the OG failure reared it’s head a 2nd straight year.

If 2016 was so bad why didn’t we overturn the OL immediately? Levitre was even hoped to come back last year since the offense fell off a cliff in 2017 when he got hurt in Vikings game.

Seems more like all the OL moves is to fix the run game; which we just haven’t had with the OGs + RS failing to perform anywhere close to that beautiful 2016 unit.

Get a real NFL OC and run game coordinator to pay attention to the details weekly. Hello Dirk and Mike.

Scheme was always gonna get Matt hit more when you play layers like Kyle would call it.

Issue is efficiency and making any hits he takes worth it.

Sark tried to get that in the pass game last year with adding Ridley, but we lost Free and couldn’t run the ball. That was Sark’s Undoing. Not knowing how to do both well and stay ahead of the opposing defense. It’s also why Kyle thought he was able to outsmart BB in SB51 to a fault.

[gazoo]

26 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

You just made my point.

You do know Brees also drops back and throws a ton of deep balls, right?

In 2016, Brees actually had more 20+ yard completed passes in 2016 than Ryan did, yet Brees still was hit 36 times less that season.

In 2017, Brees had more 20+ yard completed passes than Ryan did in 2016 and was sacked only 20 times, hit only 58 times. That’s 50 less QB hits than Ryan took in 2016.

Sure, some of the hits can be blamed on scheme, but all you had to do was watch the games to see our OL getting shoved around and the Saints OL holding a good strong pocket for Brees for more often.

[Lethal]

Greg Robinson is 6'5" and 333 lbs henceforth he is totally not a bust and will be a first ballot hall of famer.

This is the level of detail you can expect from my posts.

[Lethal]

5 minutes ago, gazoo said:

You do know Brees also drops back and throws a ton of deep balls, right?

In 2016, Brees actually had more 20+ yard completed passes in 2016 than Ryan did, yet Brees still was hit 36 times less that season.

Sure, some of the hits can be blamed on scheme, but all you had to do was watch the games to see our OL getting shoved around and the Saints OL holding a good strong pocket for Brees for more often.

Time to throw and literally all the air yards advanced metrics say otherwise.  This just tells me you watch zero football.  Drew Brees has been dinking and dunking down the field for several seasons now.  Their entire passing game is predicated on getting the ball out quickly with short passes to their backs and wr's.

You literally have no idea what you are talking about.