gazoo

The Reason TD,DQ and Blank all said we had to get bigger on OL

499 posts in this topic

2016 line was overall a pretty good line, but mostly in zone run blocking.

Ryan has consistently had much less of a pocket than the likes of Brees and Brady.  It's the most consistently frustrating part of watching to me.

The other most consistently frustrating part is we don't do to other QBs what everyone does to ours.

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6 hours ago, Macintez said:

I’ve been saying this since forever. 

Matt with a solid O-Line is a Super Bowl winning QB. If he had anywhere close to the 2008 O-Line he would have two championships lol. We been needed to get back to that.

I keep being told how difficult of a leap it will be for our 2019 OL to play anywhere near as good as our 2016 OL, since our 2016 OL was the “best in the NFL” etc. 

While I concede it was very good, I don’t see it being as big a leap as others at being better in 2019.

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Just now, gazoo said:

I keep being told how difficult of a leap it will be for our 2019 OL to play anywhere near as good as our 2016 OL, since our 2016 OL was the “best in the NFL” etc. 

While I concede it was very good, it was far from the best. In fact, it was one of the worst in the NFL at protecting our QB and really no better than our 2018 OL was in that respect.

As deadly as our passing game was in 2016, if we had an O-Line we would’ve been able to run at will. Our backfield had the talent where we could’ve had about another 3-400 more total rushing yards if they would’ve been effective enough.

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6 minutes ago, takeitdown said:

2016 line was overall a pretty good line, but mostly in zone run blocking.

Ryan has consistently had much less of a pocket than the likes of Brees and Brady.  It's the most consistently frustrating part of watching to me.

The other most consistently frustrating part is we don't do to other QBs what everyone does to ours.

You are nailing it. It’s the pocket, Ryan simply has not consistently had a pocket to step up into because his OL get shoved back into his face in passing situations. It was happening in 2016 and 2018 when defenses knew we were going to throw the ball. This was my single biggest complaint of the smaller line. Also watching our entire LOS after the snap get shoved back 3 yards in goalline situations. 

Ryan having a clean pocket will make up for any lost yards we give up by not being quite as mobile at OG. Make no mistake, Carpenter and Brown are still mobile and can get out to second level. 

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Nobody:

gazoo: There is a myth that exists that our 2016 OL was one of the best in the NFL.../vomits onto keyboard

You act like if you make up the say the same thing over and over and over again, even when NO ONE IS ARGUING WITH YOU ABOUT IT, that it makes you some football guru or something and the smartest person here.  If you were a Native American, your name would be Dead Horse Gazoo.

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51 minutes ago, youngbloodz said:

This is a myth that bigger o linemen means better. You can have a big line and still suck. We going to a bigger o line cause we are going to run more inside zone. That's why

Straw man argument. No one said size is the only factor in rating how good an OG can be. 

Sure, being one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL in 2016 and 2018 protecting the QB has nothing to do with it. 

Matter of fact, when Blank said we had to get bigger on OL so Ryan could have a pocket to step up into, he was trying to trick people. 

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4 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

@gazoo

Kyle Shannahan has the longest wide receiver route tree in professional football.  That’s why Ryan was sacked in 2016.

If you think 2018 OL was better, we can’t have a serious discussion.

Ryan was hit only 2 times less in 2016 than 2018.

Kyle was head coach of the 49ers in 2018.

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Just now, Yo_Lover said:

So let me get this straight... You told us ALL how great Levitre was gonna be and he was super great just like you said but then our oline was bad in '16? Wut?

He is the smartest person he knows

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9 minutes ago, Cole World said:

Curious to know what the run stats was for the teams mentioned. 

 

I would love to take a look at run stats for specific game situations, such as goalline attempts, short yardage attempts and see how they measure up with power run schemes in same situations. We all know our running game was really productive overall, frequently breaking off long runs. But situational football is the real question.

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1 minute ago, athell said:

He is the smartest person he knows

This level of detail regarding situational football is way over your level of understanding bro. Sorry if it triggers you. 

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Just now, gazoo said:

This level of detail regarding situational football is way over your level of understanding bro. Sorry if it triggers you. 

He said "this level of detail" :lol:

gazoo : "Whew, that was the most intense 2 minutes of research I've ever done.  2 stat categories over 2 years!  I've outdone myself this time!"

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3 minutes ago, gazoo said:

This level of detail regarding situational football is way over your level of understanding bro. Sorry if it triggers you. 

Talks about detail but ignores the fact Shanny uses the longest developing routes in the league..

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42 minutes ago, takeitdown said:

2016 line was overall a pretty good line, but mostly in zone run blocking.

Ryan has consistently had much less of a pocket than the likes of Brees and Brady.  It's the most consistently frustrating part of watching to me.

The other most consistently frustrating part is we don't do to other QBs what everyone does to ours.

This is part of it but one thing the OP is skimming right over; which lets your QB get hit more is:

Play action; especially from under C...also Designed bootlegs with half field looks (putting Matt with a defender closing to make a hit in open field)

All the while also having a vertical WCO attack by Shanny which in general took longer for routes to develop because he liked the big play

IN CONTRAST: A run oriented offense or a short-mid pass game system by contrast will make those “better looking” pass blocking lines only appear better in these metrics.

2018 was bad because it couldn’t run the ball. 2016 OL all day over that trash unit last year. It was held meagerly together by a franchise LT and stud C. We just scrubbed every bit of the rest, including depth.

Now, if that 2018 OL could’ve ran the ball maybe it would’ve earned itself a chance to look better at pass blocking....but because it couldn’t run the ball too many games of the opposing DL able to ignore a run lane and just go for Ryan happened. Blitz city if it so desired.

I don’t see the purpose in revising history on our 2016 OL??

Issue is we couldn’t replace Levitre when hurt last 2 years; nor Chester AT ALL adequately since he retired, all of that was apparent in 2017 and then RS regression sealed the fate of the OL overturn need once the OG failure reared it’s head a 2nd straight year.

If 2016 was so bad why didn’t we overturn the OL immediately? Levitre was even hoped to come back last year since the offense fell off a cliff in 2017 when he got hurt in Vikings game.

Seems more like all the OL moves is to fix the run game; which we just haven’t had with the OGs + RS failing to perform anywhere close to that beautiful 2016 unit.

Get a real NFL OC and run game coordinator to pay attention to the details weekly. Hello Dirk and Mike.

Scheme was always gonna get Matt hit more when you play layers like Kyle would call it.

Issue is efficiency and making any hits he takes worth it.

Sark tried to get that in the pass game last year with adding Ridley, but we lost Free and couldn’t run the ball. That was Sark’s Undoing. Not knowing how to do both well and stay ahead of the opposing defense. It’s also why Kyle thought he was able to outsmart BB in SB51 to a fault.

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26 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

You just made my point.

You do know Brees also drops back and throws a ton of deep balls, right?

In 2016, Brees actually had more 20+ yard completed passes in 2016 than Ryan did, yet Brees still was hit 36 times less that season.

In 2017, Brees had more 20+ yard completed passes than Ryan did in 2016 and was sacked only 20 times, hit only 58 times. That’s 50 less QB hits than Ryan took in 2016.

Sure, some of the hits can be blamed on scheme, but all you had to do was watch the games to see our OL getting shoved around and the Saints OL holding a good strong pocket for Brees for more often.

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Greg Robinson is 6'5" and 333 lbs henceforth he is totally not a bust and will be a first ballot hall of famer.

This is the level of detail you can expect from my posts.

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5 minutes ago, gazoo said:

You do know Brees also drops back and throws a ton of deep balls, right?

In 2016, Brees actually had more 20+ yard completed passes in 2016 than Ryan did, yet Brees still was hit 36 times less that season.

Sure, some of the hits can be blamed on scheme, but all you had to do was watch the games to see our OL getting shoved around and the Saints OL holding a good strong pocket for Brees for more often.

Time to throw and literally all the air yards advanced metrics say otherwise.  This just tells me you watch zero football.  Drew Brees has been dinking and dunking down the field for several seasons now.  Their entire passing game is predicated on getting the ball out quickly with short passes to their backs and wr's.

You literally have no idea what you are talking about.

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