est.1981

"The Matt Ryan Rule" according to PFF

127 posts in this topic

9 hours ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

Most teams now a days make it to the SB thanks to a cheap QB on a rookie year contract. It has been a trend for most of the last 7 years by at least one of the teams in the Superbowl. The 2016 SB between us and the Patriots was the only year it did not happen. In general, While you never want to lose your star QB, Typically re-signing them greatly lowers your chances of getting to/winning a SB unless their name is Tom Brady.

2018 - Rams with Goff on a rookie deal. Lost to Brady.
2017 - Nick Foles on a cheap contract got the Eagles a SB. Wentz was also on a rookie deal. Beat Brady.
2016 - Us. Exception to Rule. Lost to Brady.
2015 - Cam on rookie deal. Lost to Peyton.
2014 - Seahawks with Russ on rookie deal. Lost to Brady.
2013 - Seahawks again with Russ on Rookie deal. Destroyed Manning.
2012 - Ravens and 49ers both with QBs on rookie deals

Flacco - Old CBA rookie contract.  Not the same.

CK - Still had Alex Smith on the roster.  Was starter until injured that season.

Cam - Signed extension in 2015.  His cap hit was small because they did the contract that way.

Wilson - Most of the LOB was on rookie deals.  That is a defense that finished 1st four straight seasons.  A historic defense.  A SB that the defense and ST scored more points than Denver.

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8 hours ago, Flying Falcon said:

The Matt Ryan rule:

"If your QB only have wins, then go away. We cant talk to you." So true. Matt have no SB wins or trophies.

What you said has irony to it, because many lesser QBs win SBs, and are then considered better than Ryan because of it. If it could be known, SBs are not won on talent, but granted to that particular city on that given year for marketing or gaming. Talent is the least of it, so I get very bored hearing that Ryan has not won a SB yet. Turn Ryan and his Birds loose one year and see what happens?

The Falcons have had the best team in the NFL several times this decade, just not right, not right by any measure!

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32 minutes ago, athell said:

Saw that.  I think it's more the fact that those guys have done it for so short of a time, or one season flashes, where Matt has been really consistent over his career, that it's a little hard to come to grips with them in the same grouping for some. Are they as good?  Guess when you start breaking down all the attributes of a good passer, ie accuracy, decision making, touch, reads, progressions, etc. sure a lot of guys CAN be as good as other guys, at least for brief periods.  What separates the good from the great is doing it over an extended period.  None of those three have done it over an extended period like Matt has, right?

Matt has at periods of time. But the media doesn’t view him that way. If they did, he’d be a first ballot HOF without any question. Right now, there is question 

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5 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

Matt has at periods of time. But the media doesn’t view him that way. If they did, he’d be a first ballot HOF without any question. Right now, there is question 

Who cares what the media thinks though?  The media is filled with literal shock jocks whose sole purpose is to say things to spark a response from people.

If Matt's career arc remains, and he finishes about where he has been with his yearly averages, he is a top 5-7 qb all time in passing metrics and with proper coaching decisions in (possibly) 2012 and (especially) in 2016, could/should have been a 2 time SB champion.  1 at the least.  His playoff resume speaks for himself.  Especially over the past several years.  I still think he eventually gets in even without a ring, but you are right...right now there is question.  The question to that question though is...should there be?

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9 minutes ago, athell said:

Who cares what the media thinks though?  The media is filled with literal shock jocks whose sole purpose is to say things to spark a response from people.

If Matt's career arc remains, and he finishes about where he has been with his yearly averages, he is a top 5-7 qb all time in passing metrics and with proper coaching decisions in (possibly) 2012 and (especially) in 2016, could/should have been a 2 time SB champion.  1 at the least.  His playoff resume speaks for himself.  Especially over the past several years.  I still think he eventually gets in even without a ring, but you are right...right now there is question.  The question to that question though is...should there be?

Nah, Matt Ryan is one of the best QBs to lace them up no doubt about it. I'm not worried though, somehow, someway I think he gets a ring before it's all said and done. A ring at any point in time pretty much guarantee's 100% he is in the hall of fame, which should tell you all you need to know about how worthy he actually is.

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1 minute ago, Dr Long Shot said:

Nah, Matt Ryan is one of the best QBs to lace them up no doubt about it. I'm not worried though, somehow, someway I think he gets a ring before it's all said and done. A ring at any point in time pretty much guarantee's 100% he is in the hall of fame, which should tell you all you need to know about how worthy he actually is.

Agreed.  I hope he gets it man, really really do.

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17 minutes ago, athell said:

Who cares what the media thinks though?  The media is filled with literal shock jocks whose sole purpose is to say things to spark a response from people.

If Matt's career arc remains, and he finishes about where he has been with his yearly averages, he is a top 5-7 qb all time in passing metrics and with proper coaching decisions in (possibly) 2012 and (especially) in 2016, could/should have been a 2 time SB champion.  1 at the least.  His playoff resume speaks for himself.  Especially over the past several years.  I still think he eventually gets in even without a ring, but you are right...right now there is question.  The question to that question though is...should there be?

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle personally. Most falcons fans are very biased towards Ryan. The media is way too critical of him. But the media also has a huge impact on who gets into the HOF. I’ve always thought that Ryan is a very good QB who flirts with “great.” He shows flashes of great but is not great on a consistent basis

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2 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle personally. Most falcons fans are very biased towards Ryan. The media is way too critical of him. But the media also has a huge impact on who gets into the HOF. I’ve always thought that Ryan is a very good QB who flirts with “great.” He shows flashes of great but is not great on a consistent basis

So top 5 to 8ish with the occasional jump to top 3 ish?

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4 hours ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

Good stuff. 

I know some folks don't like PFF, but it's nice to see some folks consider Matt in the "irreplaceable" category. Some Falcons fans think it'd be sooo easy to replace this guy.

Exactly.

You knew this was going to trigger people into debate #867 of "Is Ryan Elite?", but it's simply reading too much into it here.

In my opinion, they used Ryan because he's consistently a top 10 QB. It's highly subjective what is his exact ranking, as this board has once again shown in this thread.

But I'm proud that he's used as an example of what a consistent top 10 franchise QB (with MVP achievement and potential) looks like.

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2 hours ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

I judge it mostly on my eyes and not the stats. The 3 of them have abilities that Ryan simply doesn't have. It doesn't make them better, because Ryan's strengths are just different from theirs. How good a QB is basically changes every season to season. When I look at the overall ability though, I personally think it's fair to suggest that Luck, Mahomes, and Wentz are absolutely capable of matching Ryan on performance and possibly even better. 

This reminds me of a line from Belichek. He looks for dependability in his players rather than overall talent. He wants guys that will consistently be good instead of that guy who shows flashes every now and then. I can guarantee that Matt is on a short list of QB’s that Bill would want running his team. This is exactly why Ryan is always underrated by pundits. He just beats you with smarts, consistency, and accuracy. He rarely has those splash plays that the pundits fall in love with.

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what a joke. Dak sucks compared to Ryan. An MVP vs a might lose his starting job in Dallas next year lol

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42 minutes ago, Jpg428gggg said:

This reminds me of a line from Belichek. He looks for dependability in his players rather than overall talent. He wants guys that will consistently be good instead of that guy who shows flashes every now and then. I can guarantee that Matt is on a short list of QB’s that Bill would want running his team. This is exactly why Ryan is always underrated by pundits. He just beats you with smarts, consistency, and accuracy. He rarely has those splash plays that the pundits fall in love with.

I agree and this is a good post. Ryan is my boy. I’ve always been behind him 100%. And it’s basically a trade off. I’ll use Andrew Luck as an example. Luck can do more with less than Ryan because of his abilities. However Luck also takes more hits and is at much higher risk for injury. I’d be happy with either guy 

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4 hours ago, abcranford2 said:

Seattle had the #1 rushing offense last year  

And the 3 years before that? 

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8 hours ago, NeonDeion said:

1st year wonder - see kaepernick

Wentz did what last year?

Luck has to prove he can stay healthy 

the 3 above are great but it’s too early to make the call 

How many times did Kaepernick throw for 5,000 yards and 50 TDs?  Terrible comparison.

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4 hours ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

I judge it mostly on my eyes and not the stats. The 3 of them have abilities that Ryan simply doesn't have. It doesn't make them better, because Ryan's strengths are just different from theirs. How good a QB is basically changes every season to season. When I look at the overall ability though, I personally think it's fair to suggest that Luck, Mahomes, and Wentz are absolutely capable of matching Ryan on performance and possibly even better. 

JaMarcus Russell had better natural ability than any of those on your list...

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Just now, NeonDeion said:

JaMarcus Russell had better natural ability than any of those on your list...

No he didn’t. Because that isn’t what I’m talking about.

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7 hours ago, Dr Long Shot said:

Similar, yes, hands down better? We are saying there are arguments that he is a top 4 QB not that he is hands down better QB than Wilson.

Yeah. I said the Top 5 are all debatable. Im cool with any top 5 ranking that includes Ryan and Wilson. Order them however you like. 

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When healthy Matt Ryan hangs up his cleats, he will probably end up in top 5 all time QB stats. The record books will end the debate..

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13 hours ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

Most teams now a days make it to the SB thanks to a cheap QB on a rookie year contract. It has been a trend for most of the last 7 years by at least one of the teams in the Superbowl. The 2016 SB between us and the Patriots was the only year it did not happen. In general, While you never want to lose your star QB, Typically re-signing them greatly lowers your chances of getting to/winning a SB unless their name is Tom Brady.

2018 - Rams with Goff on a rookie deal. Lost to Brady.
2017 - Nick Foles on a cheap contract got the Eagles a SB. Wentz was also on a rookie deal. Beat Brady.
2016 - Us. Exception to Rule. Lost to Brady.
2015 - Cam on rookie deal. Lost to Peyton.
2014 - Seahawks with Russ on rookie deal. Lost to Brady.
2013 - Seahawks again with Russ on Rookie deal. Destroyed Manning.
2012 - Ravens and 49ers both with QBs on rookie deals

Browns in the Super Bowl confirmed. 

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1 hour ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle personally. Most falcons fans are very biased towards Ryan. The media is way too critical of him. But the media also has a huge impact on who gets into the HOF. I’ve always thought that Ryan is a very good QB who flirts with “great.” He shows flashes of great but is not great on a consistent basis

No offense, but the 3 QBs you mentioned have not been great on a consistent basis either. Wentz hasn't made it through a season last two years, Luck missed 2 years and Mahomes may have had his career year to start with and look much more pedestrian from here on out.

Mahomes is probably the real deal, but it's still probably, Wentz may be really good, but not being able to stay on the field negates whatever advantage he has.  Luck is somewhere inbetween those two.

I understand your thought process about putting them up with Ryan, just disagree, I put more weight on the body of a career than you do.

I personally think of Ryan as a great QB undone by bad defenses and bad Olines. And, bad timing as well, if he'd been drafted under the new CBA, falcons would have had  an extra 30-40 mil to spend on the rest of his team during his rookie contract.

 

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3 hours ago, Xyfiel said:

Flacco - Old CBA rookie contract.  Not the same.

CK - Still had Alex Smith on the roster.  Was starter until injured that season.

Cam - Signed extension in 2015.  His cap hit was small because they did the contract that way.

Wilson - Most of the LOB was on rookie deals.  That is a defense that finished 1st four straight seasons.  A historic defense.  A SB that the defense and ST scored more points than Denver.

Flacco was still cheap. 6m in 2012. 

Alex Smith was 9m. Still cheap for a QB.

Cam signed an extension but as stated it was still the 5th year option he was playing on in 2015. 

Nothing you said about Seahawks changes the fact Wilson was on a rookie deal.

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12 minutes ago, falconidae said:

No offense, but the 3 QBs you mentioned have not been great on a consistent basis either. Wentz hasn't made it through a season last two years, Luck missed 2 years and Mahomes may have had his career year to start with and look much more pedestrian from here on out.

Mahomes is probably the real deal, but it's still probably, Wentz may be really good, but not being able to stay on the field negates whatever advantage he has.  Luck is somewhere inbetween those two.

I understand your thought process about putting them up with Ryan, just disagree, I put more weight on the body of a career than you do.

I personally think of Ryan as a great QB undone by bad defenses and bad Olines. And, bad timing as well, if he'd been drafted under the new CBA, falcons would have had  an extra 30-40 mil to spend on the rest of his team during his rookie contract.

 

Yea I get what you’re saying. But I just want to point out that I didn’t say any of the 3 guys were consistently great either. All I said they have each played in at least 1 season where they have shown they have the ability to be elite

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