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Why Kaleb McGary looks like a great pick for the Atlanta Falcons

158 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

And how did you prove it was overrated?

Stated numerous times about its functionality in regards to strength.

But like I said before overrated doesn’t mean irrelevant. 

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2 hours ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

In regards to just bench press, it’s overrated, not irrelevant. 

 

1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

Now, like I have always said, you cannot have some offensive lineman doing 8-12 reps.  I do think there is some minimum standard but bench press just isn’t a predictive analytic.

 

1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

21 bench press at the combine is above the minimum standard ;)

 

1 hour ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

^ This

Overrated doesn’t mean irrelevant. 

 

5 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

You two are acting like you can completely ignore it when evaluating a player.

 

Your reading comprehension is either incredibly atrocious or you’re trying to gaslight us. 

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1 minute ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Stated numerous times about its functionality in regards to strength.

But like I said before overrated doesn’t mean irrelevant. 

If you think bench doesn't show strength idk what to tell you man

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Just now, Yo_Lover said:

Again I never said high bench press = success. I just said it wasn't overrated. You two are acting like you can completely ignore it when evaluating a player.

you don't ignore it but you don't place significance on it - like at all on the upside of bench press reps.    If you go back and look at the data,  I would say a minimum threshold you would like to see would be at least 18-20 reps on 225lbs - there are some that have performed well w/ lower than that range but most that have done well in the NFL usually hit about 20 reps.

Orlando Brown had a really good rookie year(12 reps).

Cody Whitehair has played well in his two years(16 reps).

However, those are exceptions.   As a general rule, 18 reps looks like a good minimum standard to me just looking in hindsight at players that came through and tested at the NFL combine on the bench press.

 

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Just now, Yo_Lover said:

If you think bench doesn't show strength idk what to tell you man

At what point in the game of football will a player find himself on his back, trying to to bench a 225 pound object, numerous times?

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5 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

you don't ignore it but you don't place significance on it - like at all on the upside of bench press reps.    If you go back and look at the data,  I would say a minimum threshold you would like to see would be at least 18-20 reps on 225lbs - there are some that have performed well w/ lower than that range but most that have done well in the NFL usually hit about 20 reps.

Orlando Brown had a really good rookie year(12 reps).

Cody Whitehair has played well in his two years(16 reps).

However, those are exceptions.   As a general rule, 18 reps looks like a good minimum standard to me just looking in hindsight at players that came through and tested at the NFL combine on the bench press.

 

Never said you do 

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Just now, g-dawg said:

you don't ignore it but you don't place significance on it - like at all on the upside of bench press reps.    If you go back and look at the data,  I would say a minimum threshold you would like to see would be at least 18-20 reps on 225lbs - there are some that have performed well w/ lower than that range but most that have done well in the NFL usually hit about 20 reps.

Orlando Brown had a really good rookie year(12 reps).

Cody Whitehair has played well in his two years(16 reps).

However, those are exceptions.   As a general rule, 18 reps looks like a good minimum standard to me just looking in hindsight at players that came through and tested at the NFL combine on the bench press.

 

There is usually a threshold for combine events where is becomes evident that the player is lacking. I think there’s a give in take. If a player falls below a certain threshold in a metric he must be able to exceed another one. 

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1 minute ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

There is usually a threshold for combine events where is becomes evident that the player is lacking. I think there’s a give in take. If a player falls below a certain threshold in a metric he must be able to exceed another one. 

yeah, I agree.  There are always gonna be a unicorn that tests terribly and plays well - like Orlando Brown - but those are exceptions.

Totally agree that you could have a bad bench press below the minimum standard and still excel in other areas...

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20 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

At what point in the game of football will a player find himself on his back, trying to to bench a 225 pound object, numerous times?

When is a player gonna jump straight up into the air while standing still? Run a straight line? Do a broad jump? Run a 3 cone on the field? 

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2 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

yeah, I agree.  There are always gonna be a unicorn that tests terribly and plays well - like Orlando Brown - but those are exceptions.

Totally agree that you could have a bad bench press below the minimum standard and still excel in other areas...

I’m not sold on Brown yet. The scheme they ran was very run heavy and I’d have to see a bit more versatility from him. He did look decent though. Especially after the awful combine he had. 

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2 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

When is a player gonna jump straight up into the air while standing still? Run a straight line? Do a broad jump? Run a 3 cone on the field? 

I am ready stated that it wasn’t a 1 to 1 for those drills. Also stated that the forty was overrated as well (there’s that reason comprehension issue again).

In terms of functionality broad jump and vertical jump indicate explosiveness ,and 3 cone change of direction and acceleration. These drills are vastly more functional than a bench press. The most notable being that the athlete is upright and doing a sport specific function. 

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2 hours ago, rings639 said:

From 2014 three are still on the team.

 

Jake Mathews - Considered the safest pick in the entire draft.

Devonta Freeman - Awful his rookie year in Koetters scheme at that point.  He blew up when we switched to outsize zone, which he ran at Florida State.  Has been great when healthy.

Ricardo Allen - If the regime that drafted him was still here, he would have been cut as a corner likely.

 

My point is not debating which draft was better, 14 or 15, my point would be that the 14 draft class was made once Quinn and his staff got there.  Without that more than likely only Mathews is still on this team and it wouldn’t even be a conversation on which draft class was better.

Whether they were used by which NFL Coach is really not the point is it? That point is that an NFL Coach was able to turn them into productive NFL players, which is where the General Manager comes in. Pretty amazing that this team still has 3-Starters from the 2014 draft. Hageman was a Starter before he was in trouble.

If you want to speak hypothetically, we should have not resigned Beasley, and Hardy came back for the veteran minimum, which leaves Jarrett the only real NFL quality starter from that draft. If anything Quinn may have been a slight on his first draft, with Collins being one of his specified type players. Maybe that is why they took a chance on Collins, who knows?

So which draft was better? That is really the case you are trying to make whether you want to agree to that or not?

Which draft was better, should be very transparent for the casual observer to see?

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13 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

I am ready stated that it wasn’t a 1 to 1 for those drills. Also stated that the forty was overrated as well (there’s that reason comprehension issue again).

In terms of functionality broad jump and vertical jump indicate explosiveness ,and 3 cone change of direction and acceleration. These drills are vastly more functional than a bench press. The most notable being that the athlete is upright and doing a sport specific function. 

How is it sport specific? Show me when a player is doing that in the field.

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1 minute ago, Yo_Lover said:

How is it sport specific? Show me when a player is doing that in the field.

You mean running, accelerating, changing direction, and doing something explosive....literally all the time. I mean, you do know what football is right?

Show me an instance where a player is laying flat on his back, and is doing something functional in regards to football? 

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1 minute ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

You mean running, accelerating, changing direction, and doing something explosive....literally all the time. I mean, you do know what football is right?

Show me an instance where a player is laying flat on his back, and is doing something functional in regards to football? 

Show me when a player is standing still and jumps as high as possible/jumps forward as far as possible/runs around 3 cones?

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1 hour ago, Yo_Lover said:

When is a player gonna jump straight up into the air while standing still? Run a straight line? Do a broad jump? Run a 3 cone on the field? 

i agree w/ all of it being questioned.   I do believe that you can find some trends from past data to help predict future results to some degree.  Analytics has its place but it is only one tool.    There will always be some that test bad and play good and vice-versa.

As stated before, more than anything, I see many of these analytics that help define some baselines of what would be needed for certain positions more than maximums.

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5 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

Show me when a player is standing still and jumps as high as possible/jumps forward as far as possible/runs around 3 cones?

You do know what drills are right? And sport specific functions? Do you remember me stating it isn’t a 1 for 1. They are indicators of specific traits a player possesses. The aforementioned drills are designed to gauge those traits. 

But since you want to play semantics. FG block/Catching a ball/Hurdling/Batting a ball down/Tracking the ball etc. again, not a one for one, but sports specific it is indeed. 

Now it’s your turn. Show me an instance where a player is laying flat on his back, and is doing something functional in regards to football? 

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18 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

i agree w/ all of it being questioned.   I do believe that you can find some trends from past data to help predict future results to some degree.  Analytics has its place but it is only one tool.    There will always be some that test bad and play good and vice-versa.

As stated before, more than anything, I see many of these analytics that help define some baselines of what would be needed for certain positions more than maximums.

He’s grasping at straws trying to say that bench press is just as sports specific as a 3 cone drill/vert/etc. It’s sad. 

All data is finite and needs to be used in conjunction with other quantitative and qualitative pieces of information. Using all is essential to getting a full picture on a player.

Bench press isn’t a true indicator of strength as it isn’t functional in regards to football. In reality it is more about muscular endurance. A player can lift  50 reps on a bench and still not be strong functional wise. 

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4 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

He’s grasping at straws trying to say that bench press is just as sports specific as a 3 cone drill/vert/etc. It’s sad. 

All data is finite and needs to be used in conjunction with other quantitative and qualitative pieces of information. Using all is essential to getting a full picture on a player.

Bench press isn’t a true indicator of strength as it isn’t functional in regards to football. In reality it is more about muscular endurance. A player can lift  50 reps on a bench and still not be strong functional wise. 

agreed.

Back to Bench Press - one thing anecdotally that I believe to be true as general observation over the years - an inverse relationship with arm length and bench reps.   Men and boys with shorter arms tend to be able to out bench-press those w/ longer arms - as they don't have as far to go to lock out reps.

Those w/ shorter arms have an inherent advantage on bench press.

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29 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

i agree w/ all of it being questioned.   I do believe that you can find some trends from past data to help predict future results to some degree.  Analytics has its place but it is only one tool.    There will always be some that test bad and play good and vice-versa.

As stated before, more than anything, I see many of these analytics that help define some baselines of what would be needed for certain positions more than maximums.

Can agree with that

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6 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

He’s grasping at straws trying to say that bench press is just as sports specific as a 3 cone drill/vert/etc. It’s sad. 

All data is finite and needs to be used in conjunction with other quantitative and qualitative pieces of information. Using all is essential to getting a full picture on a player.

Bench press isn’t a true indicator of strength as it isn’t functional in regards to football. In reality it is more about muscular endurance. A player can lift  50 reps on a bench and still not be strong functional wise. 

Lol how am I grasping dude?

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5 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

one thing anecdotally that I believe to be true as general observation over the years - an inverse relationship with arm length and bench reps.   Men and boys with shorter arms tend to be able to out bench-press those w/ longer arms - as they don't have as far to go to lock out reps.

Those w/ shorter arms have an inherent advantage on bench press.

Yup. Genetics plays a huge role in athletes. Especially in terms of musculoskeletal anatomy. Two players with the same exact builds could be different athletes based on the insertion point of muscles. 

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1 minute ago, Yo_Lover said:

Lol how am I grasping dude?

LOL you’ve been grasping. You’re either purposely being obtuse or you’re completely clueless. So which is it? 

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3 minutes ago, youngbloodz said:

The bench press at the combine doesn't show strength. It's about stamina. 

Lol this is so wrong.

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