FalconsIn2012

3rd & Short Philosophy: Koetter

258 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Duff_Man said:

I'm sure this has nothing to do with the fact that in 2013 and 2014 our leading rusher was Steven Jackson and our main backup was Jacquizz Rodgers.

Man, those teams were just pathetic. Defense wasn't any better either. DQ isn't perfect, but he has transformed this team in just a few years. 

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39 minutes ago, runshoot said:

We need a dedicated TAFT historian who has time to pull up crap threads showing how time changes thread opinions.

First it was when we hired Dirk, people cited how great his running attack IN JACKSONVILLE was and that it makes a good hire. Superbowl!!

Now we see people come to realize 2019 might not be so clear cut. Dirk is pass happy, WR screen happy, that our team is learning a new offense (only Jake, Matt and Julio were around) and we are possibly starting 2 rooks on the Oline.

When Koetter was hired in 2012 the story was he only knew how to run the ball.  Now he's hired again and apparently he's never been able to run the ball.

Yeah, stories are changing alright.  But not the ones you think.  Koetter, like any quality OC, will use the weapons he has, not the weapons he wishes he had.

The last part of your last sentence is the only reason for caution.  We might start two rookies on the o-line.  And that will take time to sort out.  But Koetter knows what he's doing.

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Lol shanny loved to pass on 3rd and short 

2019 and people still want to go heavy sets on 3rd and short/goalline situations

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26 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Cool story, bro.  

What was Tampa’s excuse for having nearly identical ratios the last 3 years as Koetter had while in Atlanta?

Peyton Barber, Jacquizz Rodgers and broken down Doug Martin.

For 2016, 17 and 18:

Team YPC: 3.6, 3.7, 3.9. 

Rushing TDs: 8, 8, 11

PFF O-Line rankings: 23rd, 17th, 20th

Not saying these are the only reasons, but this is an ugly picture.

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1 hour ago, ltstorm2 said:

I wore my TJ Duckett Jersey the other day and had a guy ask me who he was.

That's a shame. My first and middle initials are TJ so I got the tattoos just like him on the back of my arms.

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It would have been stupid to try to run for a first down on 3rd and short with S-Jax corpse and the abomination we had as an oline. Not sure what this proves other than our running game was one of the worst we've ever had during that period. Also pretty impressive we had a decent 3rd and short conversion % with absolutely no threat of a run game.  Thirdly 2015 includes Koetter in Tamba Bay and Shannahan as our OC so the stats are "dirty" in that sense.  

 

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7 minutes ago, Duff_Man said:

Peyton Barber, Jacquizz Rodgers and broken down Doug Martin.

For 2016, 17 and 18:

Team YPC: 3.6, 3.7, 3.9. 

Rushing TDs: 8, 8, 11

PFF O-Line rankings: 23rd, 17th, 20th

Not saying these are the only reasons, but this is an ugly picture.

You’ll get over it...

 

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4 hours ago, Duff_Man said:

I'm sure this has nothing to do with the fact that in 2013 and 2014 our leading rusher was Steven Jackson and our main backup was Jacquizz Rodgers.

Jesus, how soon we forget.

Steven Jackson was awful. He was a big, slow target every play.

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37 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

When Koetter was hired in 2012 the story was he only knew how to run the ball.  Now he's hired again and apparently he's never been able to run the ball.

Yeah, stories are changing alright.  But not the ones you think.  Koetter, like any quality OC, will use the weapons he has, not the weapons he wishes he had.

The last part of your last sentence is the only reason for caution.  We might start two rookies on the o-line.  And that will take time to sort out.  But Koetter knows what he's doing.

I am not saying this will continue next year...but when Koetter has a qb he likes, his running game is bottom 7. Every single time.

That needs to change, especially in short yardage situations

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1 hour ago, ltstorm2 said:

I wore my TJ Duckett Jersey the other day and had a guy ask me who he was.

I like TJ. Not sure he was worth a 1st round pick since we already had Dunn, but he did have success in the DVD run system we had back then. He was a Hoss.

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7 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

I am not saying this will continue next year...but when Koetter has a qb he likes, his running game is bottom 7. Every single time.

That needs to change, especially in short yardage situations

That’s not true, when he had Gerard and MJD in Jacksonville he had great run game and good passing game. Doug Martin had 1400 yards under DK in single season IIRC. No OC would have run the ball in 2013-2014 with 3rd string OL and the RB crap we had. DK with aging MT, Quizz and Snelling did a decent job in 2012. With MM and DK, Falcons will have good balance in 2019.

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11 hours ago, FalconKick said:

Whew. We were really scraping the bottom of the barrel back then

We did, dam I still remember the Vikings and Ravens game with Toilolo going against premier pass rushers like Jared Allen and Suggs. Matt Ryan survives, he is tough as nails.

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1 hour ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Cool story, bro.  

What was Tampa’s excuse for having nearly identical ratios the last 3 years as Koetter had while in Atlanta?

He had bad RB's there too.

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59 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

That’s not true, when he had Gerard and MJD in Jacksonville he had great run game and good passing game. Doug Martin had 1400 yards under DK in single season IIRC. No OC would have run the ball in 2013-2014 with 3rd string OL and the RB crap we had. DK with aging MT, Quizz and Snelling did a decent job in 2012. With MM and DK, Falcons will have good balance in 2019.

Again, a QB he actually likes and is comfortable with

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18 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Dirk Koetter loves to preach balance, yet history shows he is pass happy.  This is especially true in short yardage situations. The graph below is troubling...if the trend continues, our success will run hot & cold with him as our OC.  Over two seasons we only attempted 6 runs on 3rd & 2.  Tragic.  Hopefully the FO had this in mind when rebuilding the OL this offseason

I honestly think it can be a banner season if our run-to-pass ratio is around 45-55.  We need more 2016 and less 2013-2015

ShortYardage-032416-1.jpg

3rd and 2 is that pass/run line. It could be anything. That’s why defenses try to keep you in 3rd and long to be an obvious pass. 3rd and 2 isn’t obvious run or pass. 3rd and 1 is prone for more run but 3rd and 2 is a guessing game and comes down to tendency in those situations. When teams study film they don’t study your plays but rather your tendencies out of different sets in different situations. Like what you do on 1st down in 12 personnel or what you do on 3rd and 1 in 21 personnel all the way down to the percentages of how many times you run that play. 

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10 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Again, a QB he actually likes and is comfortable with

DK likes Winston. They didn’t  have a respectable running game in Tampa. And why would you keep a qb you don’t like when you’re the HC? That’s detrimental to your job out the gate. 

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1 minute ago, TheFatboi said:

3rd and 2 is that pass/run line. It could be anything. That’s why defenses try to keep you in 3rd and long to be an obvious pass. 3rd and 2 isn’t obvious run or pass. 3rd and 1 is prone for more run but 3rd and 2 is a guessing game and comes down to tendency in those situations. When teams study film they don’t study your plays but rather your tendencies out of different sets in different situations. Like what you do on 1st down in 12 personnel or what you do on 3rd and 1 in 21 personnel all the way down to the percentages of how many times you run that play. 

It’s true...but a 41 pass to  6 run ratio on 3rd & 2 reeks of no balance.  Makes it easier on the DC

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18 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Dirk Koetter loves to preach balance, yet history shows he is pass happy.  This is especially true in short yardage situations. The graph below is troubling...if the trend continues, our success will run hot & cold with him as our OC.  Over two seasons we only attempted 6 runs on 3rd & 2.  Tragic.  Hopefully the FO had this in mind when rebuilding the OL this offseason

I honestly think it can be a banner season if our run-to-pass ratio is around 45-55.  We need more 2016 and less 2013-2015

ShortYardage-032416-1.jpg

My big question is how many of these pass attempts were on play action???

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1 minute ago, TheFatboi said:

DK likes Winston. They didn’t  have a respectable running game in Tampa. And why would you keep a qb you don’t like when you’re the HC? That’s detrimental to your job out the gate. 

He trusted him more the last 2 years.  When he had the training wheels on year 1 & 2, they ran the ball

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12 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Again, a QB he actually likes and is comfortable with

He was comfortable with winston?

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2 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

DK likes Winston. They didn’t  have a respectable running game in Tampa. And why would you keep a qb you don’t like when you’re the HC? That’s detrimental to your job out the gate. 

By like I mean a qb he trusts to make the proper reads and get the offense set

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1 minute ago, Falconsin2012 said:

It’s true...but a 41 pass to  6 run ratio on 3rd & 2 reeks of no balance.  Makes it easier on the DC

Balance to what? The gameplan or just 3rd and 2? You can have a balanced attack and still pass more on 3rd and 2. And a balanced attack for the Falcons is still about 55/45 pass/run. 

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Just now, TheFatboi said:

Balance to what? The gameplan or just 3rd and 2? You can have a balanced attack and still pass more on 3rd and 2. And a balanced attack for the Falcons is still about 55/45 pass/run. 

3rd & 2

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