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Hurry_Up_And_Buy

McGary and McCoy

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Posted (edited)

A theme we often see we the Falcons is giving up value or poorly leveraging themselves be it with the roster or with the coaches or with the contracts. That's the identity I've come to know this team as over the past 16 or so years watching them. This offseason that theme remained the same even down to the draft.

We see a slightly OK managed salary cap with guy's like Beasley and Trufant and Freeman eating up more space than they should. You see the loss of Teco which could have easily been prevented by simply not signing one of those journeymen o-line dudes. You see a loss in PSLs because the design of the new dome was deemed more important than the fans who paid to sit in it.

Don't get me wrong. I'm happy we got to host another Super Bowl even tho most of our out of State fans probably couldn't afford it. I'm happy to see Jarrett& Hageman & Clayborne back too. But in a draft FILLED with D-line Stars all we managed to have grabbed was Cominsky? (Who I think will may actually make a great role-player possibly even become a star.)

Omenihu out of Texas, one of college's top-rated edge guys went in the 5th. Khalen Saunders a known sleeper dt went in the 3rd or 4th I believe. Michael Dogbe outta Temple, another known sleeper, didn't go until the 7th round. We grabbed ONE D-LINEMAN. Who's definitely gonna need a season or two to get up to speed.

So the theme of the Falcons' Franchise Poor Leveraging Weakness strikes yet again. Not so much of a surprise to us who knows the truth of the Dimitrioff Era. We overspent in one area and underspent in another. As per usual. 

Eric McCoy out of Texas will probably have a dam good career in NO. He went late in the second round. If you look at his tape versus Lindstrom you'd see what the real deal is. Lindstrom has a good chance of being a long-term starter in the league and yet how did he manage to get a higher value than someone who will easily do the same while getting a year to learn as well at G or C, eventually playing at a high if not higher level than the guy he'd be replacing (Mack) and saving precious cap dollars in the process? 

The trading for McGary made sense in the grand scheme of things but picking up a guy at 14 who may be less talented than Zach Martin? Not wise. Not over someone who can match-up better strength & leverage-wise right now pound for pound man to man. Go watch the tape and tell me McCoy isn't stronger and meaner and just as consistent and productive.

Our roster is full of guys on one-year contract guys or multi-year overblown contract guys with the Class of 2016 being the saving grace of the defensive side of the team right now. And we also have an awesome new stadium that maybe build for the international version of football moreso than the American kind. If I could wish for anything it's not necessarily that we had picked Eric McCoy or resigned Tevin Coleman. I would wish that this franchise stop being so soft. I would wish this franchise saw the actual importance of leveraging EVERY aspect of the business and not just the hot guy at the time be they coach or player or football stadium designer. I'd wish we wouldn't keep giving shots to the guys who "kinda seems to fit" or some other hairbrained schematic that's not fully thoughtout heck all the way down to even the average paying STH.

Stop rooting my subconscious as a Falcon Fan into a state of consistent small losses of leverage! We're not even consistent Super Bowl contenders yet sheesh! We just got consistently competitive within this recent decade! Act like it. Bring in all the talent you possibly can! At every level! In every phase! At every juncture! Please! I'm tired of being an Atlanta apologist. I want to be an Atlanta Champion. Trading out for guys like Duke while missing out on guys like Blake Cashman is seriously weird. But idk man maybe it's all just some sick twisted pipe-dream we're all just silently agreeing. Stop beating up the whistle-blowers who call this Franchise and it's business out on their bs pls

Edited by Hurry_Up_And_Buy

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The Co Team builders felt like CB was A more pressing Need than DLine. Davidson has to be better than McLain and Claiborne was a good pick up. Let’s just hope Lindstrom/ McGary morph into Fannaca/Walter Jones 

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That was well written.

But one of the main premises is that McCoy holds similar or more value than Lindstrom.

Not many NFL front offices would agree with that. Also, McCoy, albeit being a better Center, is not a better Guard than Lindstrom. Could he be cross trained? Maybe. He has played a year less than Chris and only had 2 starts at Guard. We have a Center. We had a gaping need at Guard. We got the right guy.

 

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OP’s rant contains some valid points.

Trading down (instead of up) to draft McGary and then taking McCoy at 45 not only would have ****** up saints draft, but would have allowed falcons to do some interesting things with remaining 2nd and 3rd round picks. 

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Posted (edited)

You're mad about Teco (falls down when the wind blows teco) after we drafted Ollison??? You can't complain about cap management after the contract he signed vs the rookie we picked up. Have you watched any tape on any of these guys? Seriously, I agree (trufant,beesley etc) but no way you can complain about that 6'2 225 lbs stud from Pitt.  No Way. Even called the franchise soft after adding said stud and like 1400 lbs of glass chewers ro the oline.

Edited by AlabamaFalconFan
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Too late to cry over spilled milk, lets get on with next season baby and then you can apologize to us when Lindstrom turns in a probowl season. 

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Kind of all over the map.

The only thing I will say about "losing leverage" listed above, is the blatant disregard of DTs in 2 straight drafts. Had we not hit a miracle 5th rounder in GJ, what would our DT situation really look like? For the love of god, stop with the Davison love. Dude was so good, his team let him walk for PENNIES!? How do people think this is a good thing?

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I get where you’re coming from, but disagree with you saying that McCoy is better or as good as Lindstrom. One is a Center and one is a RG. Lindstrom could not fit this system any better than he does. 

I also don’t understand the Teco love. I like the guy, but we have Freeman already and Ito proved to be a really good rookie. And we just drafted Ollison. Not to mention signing two new OGs. The franchise has shown they are putting an emphasis on protecting Matty and running the ball. 

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There are some interesting takes from the OP, BUT bottom line is, no one really knows how these players will turn out. It's all speculation and I hope our picks are viable NFL PLAYERS.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Vandy said:

OP’s rant contains some valid points.

Trading down (instead of up) to draft McGary and then taking McCoy at 45 not only would have ****** up saints draft, but would have allowed falcons to do some interesting things with remaining 2nd and 3rd round picks. 

Good point. 

I just see so many people acting like the way we did things was the only way to do things. Believing that requires you to believe that Lindstrom is so far and away better than other similarly ranked prospects it's almost irrational. 

Taking Lindstrom at 14 when so many other prospects were available later in the draft requires him to be a very, very good player. I just don't think putting that much stock in him is wise. 

I think a fire sale trade down where you only ask for a 3rd or even a 4th and 5th would have allowed us to still get one target in McGary at the end of the 1st. Then take BPA at 45, 79 and the extra 3rd. Double dip at OG in the 4th with Ben Powers and Dru Samia. You have similar talent and more picks for the defense. 

I would have gone Greedy in the 2nd,  Ferguson in the 3rd and the aforementioned double dip in the 4th. Mack Wilson and stuck with Jordan Miller in the 5th. How in the world we passed on Harmon or Demarcus Christmas in the 6th I'll never know. 

In know I'm not an NFL coach or scout,  but I've done a lot of film review. I just think with the picks we had  we underperformed. We'll know for sure in time. 

Edited by MD-FalconFan13
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15 minutes ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

Good point. 

I just see so many people acting like the way we did things was the only way to do things. Believing that requires you to believe that Lindstrom is so far and away better than other similarly ranked prospects it's almost irrational. 

Taking Lindstrom at 14 when so many other prospects were available later in the draft requires him to be a very, very good player. I just don't think putting that much stock in him is wise. 

I think a fire sale trade down where you only ask for a 3rd or even a 4th and 5th would have allowed us to still get one target in McGary at the end of the 1st. Then take BPA at 45, 79 and the extra 3rd. Double dip at OG in the 4th with Ben Powers and Dru Samia. You have similar talent and more picks for the defense. 

I would have gone Greedy in the 2nd,  Ferguson in the 3rd and thr aforementioned double dip in the 4th. Mack Wilson and stuck with Jordan Miller in the 5th. How in thr world we passed on Harmon or Demarcus Christmas in the 6th I'll never know. 

In know I'm not an NFL coach or scout,  but I've done a lot of film review. I just think with the picks we had  we underperformed. We'll know for sure in time. 

As a Defense-wins championships minded- poster, I like your draft better. 

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I really liked McCoy and the Saints did well by staying patient and picking him once he dropped. It is entirely arguable McCoy at 45 and an additional player in the 3rd round was better overall value than McGary. 

But the Falcons aren't on a 10-year plan. They need to maximize this window while Julio is still young and the defensive stars underpaid. McGary helps more in the next two years while Mack is still around. Hopefully the Falcons can win the Super Bowl one of these next two seasons. 

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20 minutes ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

I think a fire sale trade down....

I am a long advocate of trading down but it doesn't seem like there was much trading this year. After Pittsburgh traded up to #10, there weren't any other trades until the Eagles at #22. 

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17 minutes ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

Good point. 

I just see so many people acting like the way we did things was the only way to do things. Believing that requires you to believe that Lindstrom is so far and away better than other similarly ranked prospects it's almost irrational. 

Taking Lindstrom at 14 when so many other prospects were available later in the draft requires him to be a very, very good player. I just don't think putting that much stock in him is wise. 

I think a fire sale trade down where you only ask for a 3rd or even a 4th and 5th would have allowed us to still get one target in McGary at the end of the 1st. Then take BPA at 45, 79 and the extra 3rd. Double dip at OG in the 4th with Ben Powers and Dru Samia. You have similar talent and more picks for the defense. 

I would have gone Greedy in the 2nd,  Ferguson in the 3rd and thr aforementioned double dip in the 4th. Mack Wilson and stuck with Jordan Miller in the 5th. How in thr world we passed on Harmon or Demarcus Christmas in the 6th I'll never know. 

In know I'm not an NFL coach or scout,  but I've done a lot of film review. I just think with the picks we had  we underperformed. We'll know for sure in time. 

In the end it doesn't matter what we think.  Quinn and TD identified Lindstrom as the guy for our system.  Just like they did in 2016 with Neal, even though we could have gotten "better" prospects later.

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3 minutes ago, Summerhill said:

I am a long advocate of trading down but it doesn't seem like there was much trading this year. After Pittsburgh traded up to #10, there weren't any other trades until the Eagles at #22. 

That's why you'd have to do a fire sale trade down. Say you'll take a 4th/5th. But even if you couldn't, don't trade back up in the 1st for a 2nd and 3rd. That's too costly.

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3 hours ago, vitaman said:

That was well written.

But one of the main premises is that McCoy holds similar or more value than Lindstrom.

Not many NFL front offices would agree with that. 

No one knows anything right now. 

Consider the player McCoy is replacing in New Orleans, Max Unger. Unger was drafted #49 in 2009. There were a lot of lousy players drafted before him. NFL front offices were wrong to pick him as late as they did. 

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The OP makes some interesting points.  Let me play counterpoint.

The OP suggests that McCoy and Lindstrom are basically the same quality of OL.  I disagree.  I think Lindstrom is far more refined, has superior movement skills and can presently start as an OC or OG right now.  Lindstrom stands a very good chance of earning a starting role over either Carpenter or Brown.  I don't think McCoy is at the same level.

It is commonly believed that this draft featured many future star DL's.  Williams, Oliver and Wilkins certainly project to be excellent DT's, but the rest of the prospects are decidedly in another tier.  After following more than 30 drafts, I feel that the remaining DL prospects (though high in numbers) are basically not unlike most drafts.  In other words, the top DT's look great, but the rest of the DT prospects look pretty average.  Luckily, this draft had a large number of these DT's, so that good prospects were available into the 5th round. 

I don't think we ignored the DL.  The additions of Davison and Clayborn are very important.  In my opinion, there was not a single DT drafted after the first round that will be better than Davison for the next three seasons.  Clayborn is a proven veteran and will likely be better than any DE taken after the first round for the next year or two. We drafted Cominsky and I think he will turn very well for us.  He has the ability to play as a traditional DE on run downs and move inside for passing situations.  I think he fits into our scheme very well and will help give Jarrett an occasional breather during games.

The move to get McGary was an aggressive one.  Clearly, TD foresaw what was going to happen and he acted.  We drafted what looks like the ideal RT for our scheme.  So, in one day, the right side of the OL was reconstructed and customized to what we need.  I, for one, am happy to see us finally make necessary investments in our OL.  I have said this time and time again......we have lost more games (SB included) due to poor OL play than to any other fault of the team.  The inability to sustain drives has put undue stress on the defense and has squandered the considerable playmaking talent on the roster. 

I can understand the frustration some of you have with this draft.  The media's opinions that this was a "special" draft for DL's was banged into our heads as soon as the college season ended.  And it feels like we did not take advantage of that.  I know how bad it feels because I have watched so many quality OL's get past us for many years. 

And to me, the OL is the most important unit on the team. 

 

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The OP also fails to recognize the Hindsight aspect of his analysis as well.   I am sure every NFL GM would move around the board differently with perfect Hindsight.

Many of these mocks had McCoy as a 1st round pick.  It would be reasonable to assume he would go between picks 20-40.   I don’t believe McCoy is as good as Lindstrom but to each his own.

Changing gears.

if Falcons draft board had McCoy, Bradbury and Lindstrom the same then they would have played it differently I am sure.

I will agree with OP that Falcons don’t always leverage their picks BUT there are plenty of teams that do that don’t pick players as well as the Falcons do.  There is something to be said for “getting your guy.”

There were other takers for Lindstrom in the Top 20 yet no one was interested enough in Eric McCoy until the 40’s.   How do you explain this?  These are NFL GMs, scouts and coaches.  Because it’s offensive line it is easy to blur the lines and just say “these two guys are basically the same.”

Well, are they really?

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Posted (edited)

33 minutes ago, etherdome said:

And to me, the OL is the most important unit on the team. 

 

I get it. This is what the common thought is right now amongst the fan base following the draft but what about the ugly truth? The ugly truth is EVERY unit on the team is extremely important. Even ST. This is an industry where where even the "JV" dudes can make a million in a year which to me means EVERY part of ANY team should be of utmost importance. The Browns seemed to have realized that and now I'm honestly left to wonder if they'll win the big one before we do.

Edited by Hurry_Up_And_Buy

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McCoy isn't nearly as good as Lindstrom in pass pro, and he lunges a ton. I liked him somewhat if he slipped (in the 2nd is still a bit high imho) but he would have zero chance to start for us day 1 because he has so many bad habits. He compensates for his lack of anchor by lunging and it bites him. A lot.

Elgton Jenkins is better imho. Still not as good as Lindstrom can be at guard, but a better player argument-wise. Not sure why McCoy even merits discussion over Lindstrom. Feels like bait from a Saint.

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