KCartledge85

Having a hard time feeling good about this draft

184 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Ok, if he doesn't start then he's a bust. That's a great way of evaluating things.

No, he's not a bust if he doesn't start this year, and it's obvious that the Falcons expect him to start. There's no need to trade up for a project.

There were 6 OL taken 1st round in 2017, 4 started every game for their team, 1 started 10 games, missed 6 with injury, one was on IR the whole year.

2016- two OL taken, they've started 63 out of 64 possible games.

 So, last two years, with 1st round Oline, they started  137 out of a possible 160 games, or 137 out of  144 games, plus one guy on IR.

 

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37 minutes ago, falconidae said:

No, he's not a bust if he doesn't start this year, and it's obvious that the Falcons expect him to start. There's no need to trade up for a project.

There were 6 OL taken 1st round in 2017, 4 started every game for their team, 1 started 10 games, missed 6 with injury, one was on IR the whole year.

2016- two OL taken, they've started 63 out of 64 possible games.

 So, last two years, with 1st round Oline, they started  137 out of a possible 160 games, or 137 out of  144 games, plus one guy on IR.

How many of those teams were good teams? Him not starting this year doesn't make him a "project." It would mean that the Falcons have a better option with more experience to put out there so they don't have to rush a rookie into the starting lineup. Because like I said before, if you're starting rookies on the OL that normally means you're not a very good team. The Falcons traded up for him because they like him as a player and probably wanted to get that 5th year option on him. That 5th year option is pretty important thing to teams these days. As has already been pointed out if the Falcons stay put at #45 they miss out on all the offensive tackles. The Panthers traded up to draft an OT and gave up their 3rd round pick as well.

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59 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

The draft is about long term and not short term.

If McGary  does not start year 1  he is not a bust..... If he is not starting by yer 3... that is a different conversation

I think Ty starts but McGrady gets some reps. Lindstrom will be better than what we have

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24 minutes ago, Knight of God said:

I think Ty starts but McGrady gets some reps. Lindstrom will be better than what we have

Still trying to figure out why TD called Carpenter a starter today.  Said Lindstrom/Brown would battle for the other spot

And you’re suffering from McGrady syndrome like me.  I’ve done it several times since McGary was picked

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12 hours ago, falcons007 said:

If McGary doesn’t start for any reason other than injuries, I would question trading up to first round.

I would agree with this statement, but I'm not going to panic and call him a bust, if he doesn't start day one.

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12 hours ago, EpicBird said:

 Agree to a certain extent on the value where drafted criticism. Having said that, if there is no one to trade back with, and you think there’s going to be a run on OL, TD was smart to make the moves he did. None of us has enough info to take the criticism any farther. 

How quickly we forget how many games last year looked like a jailbreak coming through the OL at Ryan (NO, Pittsburgh, etc.) and how for years there was little chance of converting 3rd and short or 4th down because the OL was overmatched. Watch Fusco last year - dude was on roller skates in pass pro most of the time. Ugly. Schweitzer: ugly, off balance, not strong enough. Garland: nice story but a terrible player. 

 

Great game planning, execution, and injury luck masked long-standing problems in 2016. Need a strong OL to run the ball and execute play action. Everyone’s job gets A LOT easier at that point. 

All of the above true, and to those that like to bang on the fans, most of us were saying we needed 2 guards last off season.

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45 minutes ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

I would agree with this statement, but I'm not going to panic and call him a bust, if he doesn't start day one.

I never said bust, but would question the trading up. In last few years, all the healthy OT picked in first round started in rookie year. 

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10 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Ok, if he doesn't start then he's a bust. That's a great way of evaluating things.

Drama much? Who said anything him being bust? You can’t say bust before first 4-5 years of the career. I was referring to the trading up in to first round for some one not starting in rookie year. 

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10 hours ago, falconsd56 said:

The draft is about long term and not short term.

If McGary  does not start year 1  he is not a bust..... If he is not starting by yer 3... that is a different conversation

It sure is long term but the value of trading up back in to first round doesn’t look good. I love MCGary and think he will start over Ty. 

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9 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

It sure is long term but the value of trading up back in to first round doesn’t look good. I love MCGary and think he will start over Ty. 

Considering the Panthers made the same exact trade we made to get Greg Little, but to the top of the second round, I fully disagree. They didn't even get a fifth year option out of the deal. The Falcons did. 

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5 minutes ago, vel said:

Considering the Panthers made the same exact trade we made to get Greg Little, but to the top of the second round, I fully disagree. They didn't even get a fifth year option out of the deal. The Falcons did. 

Panthers getting a raw deal isn’t my concern. My point is about first round picks with immediate impact. Saints gave up too much for Davenport who didn’t make any impact last year. That doesn’t make falcons moves any better. 

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4 minutes ago, vel said:

Considering the Panthers made the same exact trade we made to get Greg Little, but to the top of the second round, I fully disagree. They didn't even get a fifth year option out of the deal. The Falcons did. 

Bingo ....the trade also gave us more flexibility to trade up in the 4th round.

When you look at the 5th year option and the additional draft capital to move back up...giving just a third round pick is good value IMO

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10 hours ago, falconidae said:

No, he's not a bust if he doesn't start this year, and it's obvious that the Falcons expect him to start. There's no need to trade up for a project.

There were 6 OL taken 1st round in 2017, 4 started every game for their team, 1 started 10 games, missed 6 with injury, one was on IR the whole year.

2016- two OL taken, they've started 63 out of 64 possible games.

 So, last two years, with 1st round Oline, they started  137 out of a possible 160 games, or 137 out of  144 games, plus one guy on IR.

 

Which is exactly my point. It won’t make him bust but you have to wonder if they could have taken some one at 45 or traded down 5-7 picks and given up a 4th round pick.

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2 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

Bingo ....the trade also gave us more flexibility to trade up in the 4th round.

When you look at the 5th year option and the additional draft capital to move back up...giving just a third round pick is good value IMO

Falcons had to get in first round, McGary was most likely Patriots pick according to TD. I agree about the fifth year option but would be surprised if he doesn’t start. TD Nd DQ said they expect nothing rookies to have immediate impact.

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4 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

Bingo ....the trade also gave us more flexibility to trade up in the 4th round.

When you look at the 5th year option and the additional draft capital to move back up...giving just a third round pick is good value IMO

The 5th year option scenario is being overplayed.  That’s fully guaranteed and fully charged against the CAP.  They won’t want 26 million in 5th year options in a single year.  

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Just now, falcons007 said:

Falcons had to get in first round, McGary was most likely Patriots pick according to TD. I agree about the fifth year option but would be surprised if he doesn’t start. TD Nd DQ said they expect nothing rookies to have immediate impact.

If the pats did not draft him.....he still would not have made it to our second round pick.

There was a run on OTs in the second and he would have been snatched up

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8 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

Panthers getting a raw deal isn’t my concern. My point is about first round picks with immediate impact. Saints gave up too much for Davenport who didn’t make any impact last year. That doesn’t make falcons moves any better. 

Your point was "the value of trading up back in to first round doesn't look good". To move up, it took giving up a third, but they got a first round talent and a fifth year option. The Panthers made the same trade and got less value. At that point, you're no longer arguing value in a vacuum, but with a real comp in terms of determining what that value was in the 2019 draft. You can't compare other trades from other drafts, because they're their own environment. 

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4 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

The 5th year option scenario is being overplayed.  That’s fully guaranteed and fully charged against the CAP.  They won’t want 26 million in 5th year options in a single year.  

If he and lindstrom turn into probowlers then they will certainly consider it.....remember Brown,Carpenter,and Mack will all be off of the books by then...and there is no telling what the cap will look like then.

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1 minute ago, falconsd56 said:

If he and lindstrom turn into probowlers then they will certainly consider it.....remember Brown,Carpenter,and Mack will all be off of the books by then...and there is no telling what the cap will look like then.

Not both.  They’d have to extend one and option the other.

And don’t worry, we have 1st round picks the next 3 years to replace Mack, Carpenter, Brown

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5 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

The 5th year option scenario is being overplayed.  That’s fully guaranteed and fully charged against the CAP.  They won’t want 26 million in 5th year options in a single year.  

It's not. There is increased value to the team in having a fifth year option. It's essentially an additional franchise tag. That's the only way they were able to keep Vic and Grady at this point. If Vic was a second round pick, they'd have had to made a choice. The cap can always be manipulated, so I'm not concerned about the cap hit. If both Lindstrom and McGary turn into top tier OL and the best right side in football (a la the 2012 Niners), having them both for 5 years instead of one for 4 is a better position to have to solve. 

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3 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Not both.  They’d have to extend one and option the other.

And don’t worry, we have 1st round picks the next 3 years to replace Mack, Carpenter, Brown

I am not worried :)

Just pointing out the flexibility that the falcons will have....or should have by then.

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Just now, vel said:

It's not. There is increased value to the team in having a fifth year option. It's essentially an additional franchise tag. That's the only way they were able to keep Vic and Grady at this point. If Vic was a second round pick, they'd have had to made a choice. The cap can always be manipulated, so I'm not concerned about the cap hit. If both Lindstrom and McGary turn into top tier OL and the best right side in football (a la the 2012 Niners), having them both for 5 years instead of one for 4 is a better position to have to solve. 

The value is great on one.  But look at the effect Vic & Grady had on our CAP.  Now imagine a 3rd. 

In theory it makes sense...but it’s too much fully charged on the CAP.  You’d ideally extend one and option the other.  

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1 minute ago, Falconsin2012 said:

The value is great on one.  But look at the effect Vic & Grady had on our CAP.  Now imagine a 3rd. 

In theory it makes sense...but it’s too much fully charged on the CAP.  You’d ideally extend one and option the other.  

Agreed. But to have the option to keep both is the value. The odds of them both not being extended are much lower all things considered. It's just, in the worst case, you won't lose them for five years. Guaranteed. One of them for 6 with franchise tag. It's just the flexibility. It's no guarantee they will not be extended. Even still, like with Vic and Grady, this isn't some talent devoid team with both of them taking up as much space as they are. Yea, it limited the moves, but they worked around it well I think. 

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23 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

If the pats did not draft him.....he still would not have made it to our second round pick.

There was a run on OTs in the second and he would have been snatched up

I totally get that, but it would raise question marks if he was worth moving up. 

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