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Are We Really Going To Start Allen Over Kazee?


Which Player Should Start At Free Safety(If healthy)  

153 members have voted

  1. 1. Free Safety:Allen or Kazee?

    • Ricardo Allen
      100
    • Damontae Kazee
      51


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Because what fans don’t see or understand is qb’s like brees were killing Kazee in the seam cause he can be looked off. Can’t look Rico off. He also left his corners out to dry at times when he’s look

If you have Kazee at NB you still have him on the field for a majority of plays. 

You go with Allen. 

On 4/30/2019 at 0:09 PM, ya_boi_j said:

I love Kazee's ball hawk skills but I don't think he would make it as the Nickel back. I don't think he's that good in coverage. you have to be skilled to play inside.

this exactly. saftey and corner are very different and he plays well with the action in front of him. 

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1 hour ago, FalconAge said:

I understand that, but if a guy who has no idea what he's doing can contribute that way in his first year at the position, it behooves you to try to develop that instead of being satisfied with "good enough". If Rico's contributions were as vital as you guys are making them out to be he would be making a whole lot more money either here or elsewhere.

Rico doesn't take gambles because he's intelligent but also because he knows his 4.6 speed can't make up for the slightest mistake.

We have something special but many are satisfied with the "good-enough" status quo instead of developing playmakers. Our defense is in desperate need of playmakers. There's Deion, Grady, and that's about it. 

He obviously has a lot to learn(we haven't even mentioned Kazee's penalties), but a guy who can take the ball away and lay the wood (don't forget about that) isn't something to take for granted in today's NFL.

 

This is very subjective. You place more value on certain aspects. Thats fine but if we are being objective we have to paint the entire picture. 

Rico is as fast or faster than Kazee depending on which site you use. Rico is bigger than Kazee. Roughly 10 lbs or so. Not a lot of weight but relative to the momentum he brings. Rico is very controlled in his tackle attempts....Kazee is more explosive. Obvious benefits and risk associated there. Rico is a leader of men, he lines up the defense, he makes adjustments and I paraphrase both the previous and current DC "2nd to only Earl Thomas in eliminating the mistakes of others ot securing the last line". Rico also isnt some stoned hand FS. He is usually good for 2 to 4 picks a year and gets his hands on plenty footballs. 

7 picks doesnt begin to replace everything we lose. Kazee is still being developed. We arent losing that aspect by starting Rico. He was starter on 2 playoff teams. 2 teams full of young defenders learning their way. Rico helped them all. The ENTIRE team respects his work ethic, propensity to not make mistakes and his leadership. If you ever played sports you know how valuable those are. Its the reason veteran seniors often start over talented freshman. Trust and Chemistry. 

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On 4/30/2019 at 0:09 PM, ya_boi_j said:

I love Kazee's ball hawk skills but I don't think he would make it as the Nickel back. I don't think he's that good in coverage. you have to be skilled to play inside.

I mean..Poole was pretty much a liability in coverage while he was here but he contributed in other ways. Kazee is more athletic with better ball skills and hits just as hard. Kazee could really shine in that nickel spot.

Plus he's hungry as ****. He knows he has to compete in order to win a spot but it's essentially his for the taking.

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On 5/1/2019 at 1:42 PM, falcon1fan said:

this exactly. saftey and corner are very different and he plays well with the action in front of him. 

Our NB will play some man but we also play a lot of zone. Kazee will have his eyes on the QB plenty. 

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On 4/30/2019 at 0:31 PM, TheFatboi said:

Because what fans don’t see or understand is qb’s like brees were killing Kazee in the seam cause he can be looked off. Can’t look Rico off. He also left his corners out to dry at times when he’s looked off. Rico never leaves his corners out to dry. Kazee doesn’t get the defense lined up in the right position like Rico. He’s just doesn’t have the experience to do it yet. He misses more tackles than Rico does as well. He allowed more yards per coverage snap than Rico. I can go on about the reasons Quinn QUICKLY said “RICO WILL BE THE STARTING FS”. All fans want is the picks but ignore the things that lead to us being 31st in 3rd down on defense. 

/thread

Until Kazee can prove he can learn the position; all of the requirements, a few more turnovers don't necessarily make up for points and yardage allowed. You're trying to pay your way out of debt at that point. Let him take chances underneath while still studying under Rico in the DB room and with coaches.

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On 4/30/2019 at 2:45 PM, JDaveG said:

A few notes. 

3 safety/big nickel — whatever you call it, we can have Kazee do the same thing on appropriate looks. More, that allows better run defense on 3rd downs, which was otherwise horrid last season. Putting Neal in the box and dropping Kazee is absolutely something I expect us to do some  

Nickel corners can play off coverage. So Kazee will have ample opportunity to play like he did last season, without having him as the last line of defense. 

You can layer coverage where Allen plays “center field” and Kazee has more middle coverage. Like a rangy shortstop or 2nd baseman.  

Having Kazee and Allen on the field together allows better communication. And communication is the key to good coverage. I don’t care how fast a guy is or how good his hands are if he’s out of position. Kazee will be quicker to read what Allen wants in the secondary because he’s been there and done that. Knowing when to take a guy versus pass him off is huge, and was a huge problem for us last season (hence why Allen will play FS). 

Great addition to this thread!

It's not like we can't get Kazee's ballhawk skills just because he isn't playing last line at FS.

If anything your post shows he could be more valuable and less of a risk by NOT playing FS and getting to play to his strengths.

BTW, regarding our secondary future, I'm really curious to see how Sheffield and Miller get trained. Miller seems like boundary corner almost exclussively and Sheffield could become our FS of the future or Tru replacement in 2 years in a best case scenario. :shrug: 

They may take this year just playing on STs and not many defensive snaps; if we are fortunate to not have injuries like 2018, but come 2020 they'll be pushing for snaps due to honing technique and experience at NFL level through reps alone.

At minimum, this should eventually make Blidi expendable. We needed boundary corner depth coming into the draft, but managed to get NB depth as well if Kazee/Allen aren't able to man the slot for some reason by playing Sheffield there. Can't be worse than Poole in man coverage; who would get exploited when rush wasn't getting home vs speedy WR, yet he is a reliable tackler even if not on Poole's level like a Safety.

I'm really liking our draft curbing some depth concerns at CB; while S was set before the draft, and makes more sense than a LB this year if we weren't gonna get one of the Devins to fall to us in round 1.

Deadly 2 LB sets in Nickel if we got a Devin, but Vondre is serviceable at minimum and Foye could become what we hoped Duke could've been in Base D alone or potentially push Vondre for Nickel snaps.

Edited by Ergo Proxy
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1 hour ago, The O.D.B said:

At NB I can see Kazee causing as many turnovers as he got in 2018, if not getting them, through tipped balls and such.

Exactly. If he’s a playmaker he’s a playmaker. He’s a CB. He was drafted out of college as a CB and was a playmaker. He always finds himself around the ball. 

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3 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

Rico isn't half the player Debo is. Get out .

Rico is most definitely at least half the player Debo is. Rico is a good player. He does not suck. No narrative or biased opinion will make me see him differently when I watch him play. He’s a good FS. That’s not fan speak. That’s league wide regard. And  I’m not a fan of Rico. I’m a fan of football and the chess match of the game. Rico plays chess. We need that. Having both of them on the field at the same time will be beneficial for the entire defense. 

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8 minutes ago, k-train said:

If that’s your take on the question, I feel you are focusing too hard on the wrong part.

Lil bro couldn’t see the heart of the question. I get it. Riley would or could never be the complete player Debo is but if he had 7 forced fumbles there would be some fans saying he’s better than Debo. That’s a fact. That’s TATF. That’s fans everywhere. 

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1 minute ago, TheFatboi said:

Lil bro couldn’t see the heart of the question. I get it. Riley would or could never be the complete player Debo is but if he had 7 forced fumbles there would be some fans saying he’s better than Debo. That’s a fact. That’s TATF. That’s fans everywhere. 

NFL is now highlights, red zone channel and fantasy foot ball. Who cares if the top of the defense blew up with explosive plays, there were those seven interceptions.

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3 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Great addition to this thread!

It's not like we can't get Kazee's ballhawk skills just because he isn't playing last line at FS.

If anything your post shows he could be more valuable and less of a risk by NOT playing FS and getting to play to his strengths.

BTW, regarding our secondary future, I'm really curious to see how Sheffield and Miller get trained. Miller seems like boundary corner almost exclussively and Sheffield could become our FS of the future or Tru replacement in 2 years in a best case scenario. :shrug: 

They may take this year just playing on STs and not many defensive snaps; if we are fortunate to not have injuries like 2018, but come 2020 they'll be pushing for snaps due to honing technique and experience at NFL level through reps alone.

At minimum, this should eventually make Blidi expendable. We needed boundary corner depth coming into the draft, but managed to get NB depth as well if Kazee/Allen aren't able to man the slot for some reason by playing Sheffield there. Can't be worse than Poole in man coverage; who would get exploited when rush wasn't getting home vs speedy WR, yet he is a reliable tackler even if not on Poole's level like a Safety.

I'm really liking our draft curbing some depth concerns at CB; while S was set before the draft, and makes more sense than a LB this year if we weren't gonna get one of the Devins to fall to us in round 1.

Deadly 2 LB sets in Nickel if we got a Devin, but Vondre is serviceable at minimum and Foye could become what we hoped Duke could've been in Base D alone or potentially push Vondre for Nickel snaps.

I think Sheffield is perfect guy to take over a Trufant. A man corner with speed, he is raw and needs to add some meat. 

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1 hour ago, TheFatboi said:

Unfortunately that’s where we are now. 

DQ knows it well. DQ loves to see competition but he didn’t even blink when they asked him about Kazee. Allen at FS and Kazee at NB. That Nick Chubb long TD probably wouldn’t  have happened if Allen was the Eraser. Folks don’t see how many tackles he made to prevent big plays.

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