FalconAge

Are We Really Going To Start Allen Over Kazee?

Which Player Should Start At Free Safety(If healthy)   153 members have voted

  1. 1. Free Safety:Allen or Kazee?

    • Ricardo Allen
      100
    • Damontae Kazee
      51

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181 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Yo_Lover said:

Kazee's was a .22

So why not give up .4 more yards and gain 7 interceptions?

Because that’s the difference in being 31st in 3rd down vs being 12th. It’s a game of inches little bro. Also he doesn’t tackle as well as Allen. He sometimes left his corners out to dry. He’s not the communicator that Allen is and he doesn’t see things as quickly as Allen does. How many games did we still lose even tho kazee had an int? It’s deeper than int’s. Allen had  2 int’s before he got hurt so who’s to say he wasn’t gonna have 6/7? I like kazee don’t get me wrong but allen is the better overall safety of the 2. If he wasn’t Quinn wouldn’t have been so quick to shut it down that kazee was gonna be the FS moving foward. He saw the same things in explaining to you. Those fundamentals are more important than 7 picks. Funny thing is allen was a ballhawk in college. He can absolutely go get the ball if he chooses too. I think he just chooses to not leave his guys hanging. 

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A few notes. 

3 safety/big nickel — whatever you call it, we can have Kazee do the same thing on appropriate looks. More, that allows better run defense on 3rd downs, which was otherwise horrid last season. Putting Neal in the box and dropping Kazee is absolutely something I expect us to do some  

Nickel corners can play off coverage. So Kazee will have ample opportunity to play like he did last season, without having him as the last line of defense. 

You can layer coverage where Allen plays “center field” and Kazee has more middle coverage. Like a rangy shortstop or 2nd baseman.  

Having Kazee and Allen on the field together allows better communication. And communication is the key to good coverage. I don’t care how fast a guy is or how good his hands are if he’s out of position. Kazee will be quicker to read what Allen wants in the secondary because he’s been there and done that. Knowing when to take a guy versus pass him off is huge, and was a huge problem for us last season (hence why Allen will play FS). 

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Rico is the better, more polished player. Kazee is a stud and deserves snaps, a lot of them. But Rico is a superior vocal leader, and he’s much better at aligning the D. He’s also quite the ball hawk himself. Kazee is an up and comer and could take over for Rico if/when it becomes necessary but I still view Rico as the better player. 

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18 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Because that’s the difference in being 31st in 3rd down vs being 12th. It’s a game of inches little bro. Also he doesn’t tackle as well as Allen. He sometimes left his corners out to dry. He’s not the communicator that Allen is and he doesn’t see things as quickly as Allen does. How many games did we still lose even tho kazee had an int? It’s deeper than int’s. Allen had  2 int’s before he got hurt so who’s to say he wasn’t gonna have 6/7? I like kazee don’t get me wrong but allen is the better overall safety of the 2. If he wasn’t Quinn wouldn’t have been so quick to shut it down that kazee was gonna be the FS moving foward. He saw the same things in explaining to you. Those fundamentals are more important than 7 picks. Funny thing is allen was a ballhawk in college. He can absolutely go get the ball if he chooses too. I think he just chooses to not leave his guys hanging. 

Very well said.  

And I like Kazee...but at 4 mill Rico is amongst the best value contracts on the team.  Quinn knows he must win now.  If Kazee was better at FS than Rico, he would be our starting FS

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4 hours ago, falcons007 said:

The wheels came off the D against Aints when Rico left the game. Bread had party hitting exploring the seam. 

Lol at Bread for some reason

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Put both Allen and Kazee at safety, have Debo & Neal play nickel linebacker & have Takk, Vic, Campbell & Grady rushing the QB

 

we only have to find a good nickel corner 

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6 hours ago, FalconAge said:

I love Ricardo Allen. Great character, great story, complete role model. By all accounts great teammate as well. Inlove his high football i.q. and the film study sessions he hosts.

That said....Kazee is a baller.

Dude has physical ability to cover ground that Allen just can't and has ball skills like we haven't seen since Prime. Seven picks in your first year starting is no fluke.

Allen has the knowledge to be positioned correctly mostly, and he can limit certain big plays, but Kazee has the ability to take the game away from the offense, so we can get Matt, Julio and Ridley back on the field.

Plenty of you like Kazee at NB, but he won't have as much of an opportunity to sit back and read the QB doing that. 

While he wasn't perfect as a rookie, his mistakes can be cut down as he grows into the role.

So if you were Quinn, which guy do you go with?

The savvy vet or the young playmaker?

One can manage the game for you, the other can turn it upside down.

Makes more sense to put Kazee at NB and keep both he and Allen on the field at the same time. Quinn said he wants Kazee closer to the line.

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9 hours ago, TheRisen999 said:

Makes more sense to put Kazee at NB and keep both he and Allen on the field at the same time. Quinn said he wants Kazee closer to the line.

I trust Quinn, but I think eventually KZ will be f.s. with Rico at n.b.

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My question to you OP...how many games did you watch last season? Kazee cost us a bunch of TDs and big catches that Rico never allows. Kazee at nickel is perfect since he can jump routes and play aggressively inside a zone. He's a converted CB anyway just like Rico. We will see them both swap responsibilities during games I'm sure. Where Rico takes the slot and Kazee drops back for the INT. It's good to have that flexibility.

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12 hours ago, NUPE said:

Put both Allen and Kazee at safety, have Debo & Neal play nickel linebacker & have Takk, Vic, Campbell & Grady rushing the QB

 

we only have to find a good nickel corner 

This seems like a Madden plan. 

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17 hours ago, FalconAge said:

I guess I favor on the job training.

All of the things Kazee needs work on can be coached up/gained through experience.

The things Allen does poorly are physical limitations that can't have improved after an Achilles tear.

I went back and saw an article thst ranked Allen the 23rd best free safety in 2017, with his lack of recovery speed being the main knock. Love the guy, but he's not irreplaceable like Deion or Julio.

Teach your budding playmaker the rules of his new position and let his ability do the rest.

Great post. I agree Ricardo is the safe option for now but Kazee or somebody else faster will leap us to top 3 status eventually.  People forget that Rico struggled his first year in Quinn's defense also. He didn't become the Rico we know overnight. Last year was kazee first year playing the position full time. Yet despite his mistakes, he brought play making potential to the defense. 

Kazee has already stated he prefers corner but I don't see what will stop him from making the jump if he gets a second year crack at the position. I also feel even though Ricardo is solid, it definitely is upgradeable. 

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20 hours ago, FalconAge said:

I love Ricardo Allen. Great character, great story, complete role model. By all accounts great teammate as well. Inlove his high football i.q. and the film study sessions he hosts.

That said....Kazee is a baller.

Dude has physical ability to cover ground that Allen just can't and has ball skills like we haven't seen since Prime. Seven picks in your first year starting is no fluke.

Allen has the knowledge to be positioned correctly mostly, and he can limit certain big plays, but Kazee has the ability to take the game away from the offense, so we can get Matt, Julio and Ridley back on the field.

Plenty of you like Kazee at NB, but he won't have as much of an opportunity to sit back and read the QB doing that. 

While he wasn't perfect as a rookie, his mistakes can be cut down as he grows into the role.

So if you were Quinn, which guy do you go with?

The savvy vet or the young playmaker?

One can manage the game for you, the other can turn it upside down.

Expect a lot of 3-safety sets with kazee/Allen interchangeable at FS. 

Both players can play that NB role as well. TAFT gets too worked up in pigeoning players to one sole position. 

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I don't understand how folks can look at Rico's body of work and come to any conclusion that puts him in the same ballpark as Kazee. One of the things I couldn't stand about Rico was he always seemed to be just one step behind on plays. A step late, but rarely on time. Now that we have somebody who has displayed the ability to not only sniff out plays, but be on time to make a play on the ball, we want to hand the position back over to Rico? I think Rico's an ok player, but not special.

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19 hours ago, djbrough said:

My thoughts exactly. Rico is a good player, but you leave ball hawks alone. Turnovers are king.

Not more important than lining the players up. :rolleyes: What Mularkey. 

Fat can you list the games Kazee played nickel?  I'd like to check em out.  Like yaboi, I don't remember them.

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2 hours ago, ShadyRef said:

Great post. I agree Ricardo is the safe option for now but Kazee or somebody else faster will leap us to top 3 status eventually.  People forget that Rico struggled his first year in Quinn's defense also. He didn't become the Rico we know overnight. Last year was kazee first year playing the position full time. Yet despite his mistakes, he brought play making potential to the defense. 

Kazee has already stated he prefers corner but I don't see what will stop him from making the jump if he gets a second year crack at the position. I also feel even though Ricardo is solid, it definitely is upgradeable. 

Finally someone who gets it. Only took 4 pages.

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1 hour ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Not more important than lining the players up. :rolleyes: What Mularkey. 

Fat can you list the games Kazee played nickel?  I'd like to check em out.  Like yaboi, I don't remember them.

Rico's prowess with alignments is a learned skill. It simply takes time in the film room. Ball hawking is not learned. You either have it or you don't. If you honestly believe that after a full season on the job as the #1 guy (and a full offseason) that Kazee's ability to diagnose, align the defense, and make better decisions won't increase, then I question your knowledge of football. You've got to keep Kazee in a position to make plays with the ball in front of him. He's shown too many times that his strength is there.

I also don't believe that Rico will be 100% with his former explosion in 1 year. I've consistently said that Achilles injuries are two-year injuries. They may tinker with Kazee at NB early, but I fully expect him to be the starting FS for the majority of the year.

Nothing personal, but your rationale just doesn't account for innate abilities.

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20 minutes ago, djbrough said:

Rico's prowess with alignments is a learned skill. It simply takes time in the film room. Ball hawking is not learned. You either have it or you don't. If you honestly believe that after a full season on the job as the #1 guy (and a full offseason) that Kazee's ability to diagnose, align the defense, and make better decisions won't increase, then I question your knowledge of football. You've got to keep Kazee in a position to make plays with the ball in front of him. He's shown too many times that his strength is there.

I also don't believe that Rico will be 100% with his former explosion in 1 year. I've consistently said that Achilles injuries are two-year injuries. They may tinker with Kazee at NB early, but I fully expect him to be the starting FS for the majority of the year.

Nothing personal, but your rationale just doesn't account for innate abilities.

You preachin to the choir bro.

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21 hours ago, FalconAge said:

I love Ricardo Allen. Great character, great story, complete role model. By all accounts great teammate as well. Inlove his high football i.q. and the film study sessions he hosts.

That said....Kazee is a baller.

Dude has physical ability to cover ground that Allen just can't and has ball skills like we haven't seen since Prime. Seven picks in your first year starting is no fluke.

Allen has the knowledge to be positioned correctly mostly, and he can limit certain big plays, but Kazee has the ability to take the game away from the offense, so we can get Matt, Julio and Ridley back on the field.

Plenty of you like Kazee at NB, but he won't have as much of an opportunity to sit back and read the QB doing that. 

While he wasn't perfect as a rookie, his mistakes can be cut down as he grows into the role.

So if you were Quinn, which guy do you go with?

The savvy vet or the young playmaker?

One can manage the game for you, the other can turn it upside down.

Honestly I'm not sure why this is even a question. Y'all get so enamored with the INT numbers that you forget that Kazee got burned a lot. Allen is the starter. Kazee may be a ballhawk, but Allen is the QB of the defense. He gets everyone in proper position and doesn't allow anyone to get behind him.

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2 hours ago, No.11 said:

Honestly I'm not sure why this is even a question. Y'all get so enamored with the INT numbers that you forget that Kazee got burned a lot. Allen is the starter. Kazee may be a ballhawk, but Allen is the QB of the defense. He gets everyone in proper position and doesn't allow anyone to get behind him.

Lol plenty of people were p.o.'d about Rico getting burned during our Superbowl run. Let's not revise history.

And it was Kazee's first year starting, folks were patient with Allen's growing pains and he's a far less talented player. Kazee used to be a quarterback, so he seems to have the aptitude to get better making calls to go along with his already elite ball-hawking.

As for Allen, I already said I love the guy, but he is not above replacement level in our defense.

The 4-3 under comes to life when the free safety can make plays, not just limit them.

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On 4/30/2019 at 0:23 PM, FalconAge said:

Unless you have a probowler ahead of him, I don't see how you push out a guy from a position where he scored 7 picks in his first year as a starter.

My mind is blown by this thread. If any other team did this, I would be asking for us to trade for that guy with the 7 picks.

Picks are not the sole measure of a safety. How do you bench the guy who has given up like 2 TDs in 2 yrs? 

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Posted (edited)

56 minutes ago, Stryka said:

Picks are not the sole measure of a safety. How do you bench the guy who has given up like 2 TDs in 2 yrs? 

I understand that, but if a guy who has no idea what he's doing can contribute that way in his first year at the position, it behooves you to try to develop that instead of being satisfied with "good enough". If Rico's contributions were as vital as you guys are making them out to be he would be making a whole lot more money either here or elsewhere.

Rico doesn't take gambles because he's intelligent but also because he knows his 4.6 speed can't make up for the slightest mistake.

We have something special but many are satisfied with the "good-enough" status quo instead of developing playmakers. Our defense is in desperate need of playmakers. There's Deion, Grady, and that's about it. 

He obviously has a lot to learn(we haven't even mentioned Kazee's penalties), but a guy who can take the ball away and lay the wood (don't forget about that) isn't something to take for granted in today's NFL.

 

Edited by FalconAge
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