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Kaleb Mcgary: Why understanding scheme and technique is important in player evaluation

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14 minutes ago, NWFALCON said:

I heard that Ford gained upwards of 15 pounds after the combine. Teams didn’t trust he could keep the weight off. It was mentioned in passing on ESPN prior to Ford going off of the board. 

Good to know, thank you.

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26 minutes ago, youngbloodz said:

Lindstrom will be an All Pro level guard. And those are more valuable than a 2 down DT

We don’t know that, bro.  Hopefully he is.  But we addressed the Guard position as nauseum in FA.  We have 4 quality starting OG’s.  Is Lindstrom better..he will be soon.  But we have a SB window next year.

If we were willing to waste draft capital, go get Ed Oliver.  That was an area of need.  Move up for Wilkins.  That helps next year.  

Regardless, just my uneducated opinion.  No worries

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50 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

We don’t know that, bro.  Hopefully he is.  But we addressed the Guard position as nauseum in FA.  We have 4 quality starting OG’s.  Is Lindstrom better..he will be soon.  But we have a SB window next year.

If we were willing to waste draft capital, go get Ed Oliver.  That was an area of need.  Move up for Wilkins.  That helps next year.  

Regardless, just my uneducated opinion.  No worries

We dont know about any draft pick. But what you look for is traits. And Lindstrom has elite level traits

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27 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

We don’t know that, bro.  Hopefully he is.  But we addressed the Guard position as nauseum in FA.  We have 4 quality starting OG’s.  Is Lindstrom better..he will be soon.  But we have a SB window next year.

If we were willing to waste draft capital, go get Ed Oliver.  That was an area of need.  Move up for Wilkins.  That helps next year.  

Regardless, just my uneducated opinion.  No worries

So DT was a bigger need than guard? Do we have an elite OG? No but we have an elite DT in Grady. Do we have an above average guard in run blocking or pass pro? No. .but Davidson is above average as a run stuffer. Was the NT on #2 run D in league. 

None of the guys we signed at G screams longterm fix. 

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5 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

I’ll admit my concerns regarding McGary are still there, but I’m coming around.  His tape vs the the two fast & physical defenses he played is atrocious (Auburn/Bama).  He seemed unable to handle the edge.  Instead of forming pockets he would hold, accounting for his 9 penalties last year.  Simply put, he isn’t a natural pass blocker.  Great in the run game, though.  The few zone sets Washington ran were Slip Zone, very little zone wide, so that may take time.  

I honestly still believe he moves inside where his sluggish feet & short arms won’t be exploited.  Could be dominant inside.  Has a Dahl like attitude which we need.  But time will tell.  I love his attitude & work ethic.  Fingers  crossed it’s a home trim for TD/Quinn

You've been having a tough time with this pick. I get it. I thought he had slow feet too. But his testing says otherwise. Then when you see how he was taught, he's intentionally taking slower choppier steps. The whole "stepping over a pencil" concept. It's different, so it looks different. He's no Jake. He's not Jonah. 

Don't know what you were looking at vs Auburn, but unless this wasn't the game you are talking about, Kaleb held his own pretty consistently vs Auburn. 

His glaring "bad" play is on a screen, designed to let your man go chase the QB, which he did. Other than that, he didn't have a single hold and didn't give up much pressure nor a single sack. 

Again, your issues are a lack of understanding of how he's been taught to block. He's distorting the line of every pass rusher he faced in that game. So even when he did give up the edge, it's such a long run for the edge, Kaleb has a chance to still recover and push him around the arc, which he did consistently. Also pretty cheap and lazy to go back to his play as a sophomore versus Bama to make a point about him struggling. As if he hasn't developed since 2016. 

If you think a 6'8 OL is better inside... Smh

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26 minutes ago, vel said:

You've been having a tough time with this pick. I get it. I thought he had slow feet too. But his testing says otherwise. Then when you see how he was taught, he's intentionally taking slower choppier steps. The whole "stepping over a pencil" concept. It's different, so it looks different. He's no Jake. He's not Jonah. 

Don't know what you were looking at vs Auburn, but unless this wasn't the game you are talking about, Kaleb held his own pretty consistently vs Auburn. 

His glaring "bad" play is on a screen, designed to let your man go chase the QB, which he did. Other than that, he didn't have a single hold and didn't give up much pressure nor a single sack. 

Again, your issues are a lack of understanding of how he's been taught to block. He's distorting the line of every pass rusher he faced in that game. So even when he did give up the edge, it's such a long run for the edge, Kaleb has a chance to still recover and push him around the arc, which he did consistently. Also pretty cheap and lazy to go back to his play as a sophomore versus Bama to make a point about him struggling. As if he hasn't developed since 2016. 

If you think a 6'8 OL is better inside... Smh

He is fast in a straight line, but slow laterally.  Not slow, sluggish.  And I understand perfectly what I’m seeing.  But often distorting the line is what gets him in trouble.  Watch the tape again, but imagine it’s Von Miller coming off the edge.  

In the Auburn game he is beaten cleanly 3 times on the 1st quarter.  The 3rd play was a check down, but you can see that he is holding so he wasn’t supposed to release the DE.  They help him with a TE in the 2nd quarter.  Once they TE stopped helping, he missed the block in the fumble.  Then another holding penalty and gets beat badly twice in the 4th.

His anchor is great.  Super strong.  Great in the run game.  His weaknesses will be less exposed on the inside while his strengths magnified.  

In no way is he a bad prospect.  But his game has holes NFL edge rushers will exploit if he is a Day 1 starter

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3 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

As I’ve said, I don’t not like the players. But Dexter and McGary made more sense than Lindstrom & McGary

Lindstorm is zack Martin Kinda pick. He will be holding the position for years to come. There are many Glen Dorsey’s who have come and gone in NFL. I remember cowboys fans throwing hissy fit for drafting zack Martin.

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34 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

Lindstorm is zack Martin Kinda pick. He will be holding the position for years to come. There are many Glen Dorsey’s who have come and gone in NFL. I remember cowboys fans throwing hissy fit for drafting zack Martin.

He may be. And Kyler Murray could be Russell Wilson, but we don’t need a QB.

 I’m not talking about the player.  I’m talking roster construction.  We had enough quality OG’s....at least that’s what FA told us.

Regardless, I’m done with this debate.  

 

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1 hour ago, Falconsin2012 said:

He is fast in a straight line, but slow laterally.  Not slow, sluggish.  And I understand perfectly what I’m seeing.  But often distorting the line is what gets him in trouble.  Watch the tape again, but imagine it’s Von Miller coming off the edge.  

In the Auburn game he is beaten cleanly 3 times on the 1st quarter.  The 3rd play was a check down, but you can see that he is holding so he wasn’t supposed to release the DE.  They help him with a TE in the 2nd quarter.  Once they TE stopped helping, he missed the block in the fumble.  Then another holding penalty and gets beat badly twice in the 4th.

His anchor is great.  Super strong.  Great in the run game.  His weaknesses will be less exposed on the inside while his strengths magnified.  

In no way is he a bad prospect.  But his game has holes NFL edge rushers will exploit if he is a Day 1 starter

Just re-watched the whole first quarter. Saw one instance of him being "beat clean". You are more than welcome to timestamp them if you want. And he's not slow laterally. His shuttle time was just .04 slower than Lindstrom. It's technique and his aggressive style. He knows he has shorter arms and has to get a jump on guys that are quicker than him and try and make it a physical game before they can get to the edge. But if they do, he's pushed them further out than usual, which buys him and the QB more time. He didn't give up a single hit or sack. And you call that an atrocious game...

I don't care if it's Von Miller on the edge. Patrick Peterson gets burnt annually by Julio Jones and I don't see a single Cardinals fan mad that he's their #1 CB. The top tier guys will get theirs. It doesn't matter who they're up against. I'm not getting rid of Mack because he can't block Aaron Donald 1v1 for 60 minutes. That's a bad way of looking at it. Even Jake would have issues with Von. 

And you're kidding me about the block on the fumble. You're reaching now. That's a designed option play. Leave the front side DE to make a choice and the QB either keeps it or pitches it based on what the DE does. Don't blame that on McGary. That's what I'm talking about when I say cheap and lazy examples. That's exactly what that is. Cheap and lazy. Don't even take a second to assess the play and assignments, just tag the outcome to the player you're knocking. Same with trying to reference a game from 2016 as to why you're nervous about a player. You're better than that. 

Yes, his game has holes. Sub-33" arms against guys that like to swat or arm bar their way around the corner can give him fits. Speed guys will give him fits. That's most OTs in the league. We're talking about a handful of guys who fit that (Miller, Mack, Clowney, etc) and these guys give All Pro OTs fits. But no smart OC is giving those guys clean 1v1 looks anyway unless they want to embarrass their RT that week. He can get over aggressive in the run game and miss some blocks he should easily make. He can be tossed aside easily by some better LBs because of this if he isn't under control. But overall, McGary's upside is the pass blocking of Schraeder and the run blocking of Tyson Clabo. That's a very good RT.

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37 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

He may be. And Kyler Murray could be Russell Wilson, but we don’t need a QB.

 I’m not talking about the player.  I’m talking roster construction.  We had enough quality OG’s....at least that’s what FA told us.

Regardless, I’m done with this debate.  

 

We don’t have quality OG. Just journeyman, falcons haven’t replaced RG even considering Chester on a loaner year. RG has been problem for years. This will plug a big hole with out patch work. And Falcons have to replace Levitree with combination of Brown/Carpenter.

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3 hours ago, Stryka said:

So DT was a bigger need than guard? Do we have an elite OG? No but we have an elite DT in Grady. Do we have an above average guard in run blocking or pass pro? No. .but Davidson is above average as a run stuffer. Was the NT on #2 run D in league. 

None of the guys we signed at G screams longterm fix. 

Exactly, we have Grady and are average at OG. This is glen Dorsey argument all over again.

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24 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

We don’t have quality OG. Just journeyman, falcons haven’t replaced RG even considering Chester on a loaner year. RG has been problem for years. This will plug a big hole with out patch work. And Falcons have to replace Levitree with combination of Brown/Carpenter.

They are paid like quality OG’s.  All of them.  And really that’s my angst.  TD mishandled how we addressed  the OL this offseason.  You don’t pay 12 mill to fix the line, then use multiple first round picks to replace the new signings.  Do one or the other.  Seems confused

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Posted (edited)

28 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

They are paid like quality OG’s.  All of them.  And really that’s my angst.  TD mishandled how we addressed  the OL this offseason.  You don’t pay 12 mill to fix the line, then use multiple first round picks to replace the new signings.  Do one or the other.  Seems confused

I think they were signed just in case the draft didn’t pan out as they planned. Maybe this was their price to come aboard. It does look like Plan A and B came to fruition. 

I would rather not see Garland, Wes, and Zane type players out there anymore. 

Edited by NWFALCON

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32 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

They are paid like quality OG’s.  All of them.  And really that’s my angst.  TD mishandled how we addressed  the OL this offseason.  You don’t pay 12 mill to fix the line, then use multiple first round picks to replace the new signings.  Do one or the other.  Seems confused

Lol. Do you even know how much high quality OG paid? Man you just sound like sour grapes at this time. DQ said he will scrub the line and just did that. He also said back ups weren’t good. He went and got some quality backups in FA. Top high quality OG average 10-12 M a year in FA. DQ and TD know their jobs are on the line of the Offense can’t protect the QB not run the ball. 

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54 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

Lol. Do you even know how much high quality OG paid? Man you just sound like sour grapes at this time. DQ said he will scrub the line and just did that. He also said back ups weren’t good. He went and got some quality backups in FA. Top high quality OG average 10-12 M a year in FA. DQ and TD know their jobs are on the line of the Offense can’t protect the QB not run the ball. 

Patriots don’t have a single OL making 4 mill.  We have 13 OL and the average is 4.1 mill.  But ok, let’s pay 2 backup guards 4 mill.  lol

Ita called a salary cap, man

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2 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Patriots don’t have a single OL making 4 mill.  We have 13 OL and the average is 4.1 mill.  But ok, let’s pay 2 backup guards 4 mill.  lol

Ita called a salary cap, man

The Pats have their RG and RT making over 7 mil

 

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9 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

The Pats have their RG and RT making over 7 mil

 

They did have Cannon making 5.5.  But their avg OL salary was 1.9 mill.  It’s 1.8 this year.  We are over 4.0  both years

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9 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

They did have Cannon making 5.5.  But their avg OL salary was 1.9 mill.  It’s 1.8 this year.  We are over 4.0  both years

Yeah they're starters and depth is cheaper.

RN I'd take our backups over there's, and their LT is a rookie.

Center was an UDFA

Those are the two money makers on our line.

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6 hours ago, youngbloodz said:

We dont know about any draft pick. But what you look for is traits. And Lindstrom has elite level traits

That he does. And elite guard are not easy to find and great capability to the team

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5 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

He is fast in a straight line, but slow laterally.  Not slow, sluggish.  And I understand perfectly what I’m seeing.  But often distorting the line is what gets him in trouble.  Watch the tape again, but imagine it’s Von Miller coming off the edge.  

LMAO.  If Mcgary only has trouble with edge rushers of the quality of Vonn Miller then the pick is a home run.

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2 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

They are paid like quality OG’s.  All of them.  And really that’s my angst.  TD mishandled how we addressed  the OL this offseason.  You don’t pay 12 mill to fix the line, then use multiple first round picks to replace the new signings.  Do one or the other.  Seems confused

Needed 3 new starters and new depth pieces as well. Couldn't get it all done with just FA or the draft.

Brown and the draft picks are the 3 new starters, for 4.3 mil, 2.6 mil & 1.8 mil  cap hit this year. Then Carpenter and Sambraillo are the primary back ups for 3.25 and 2.3 mil That's 3 starters and 2 backup for less than 15 mil this year. Draft pick salaries from Spotrac.  I assume Fusco and Wes are gone this year.

Next year, you cut Ty and Mack, slide Lindstrum to center, put Carpenter at guard, and have 4 Oline starters making about 15 mil combined. Or draft another guard/center with another high pick next year, then cut Carpenter. [2.75 dead money hit as Jun1 cut]

Over two years, the Oline gets better, cheaper and younger.

No, it's not NE paying their Oline the NFL version of minimum wage, but nobody else has been able to duplicate NE, not holding that against the Falcons.

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