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takeitdown

Falcons Draft (and FA) explained

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This isn't what I would have done, but there's a very clear strategy to it.

The Falcons have quality skill positions on O and D, and subpar lines.  They've invested multiple first round picks in the DL lately.

They've wanted to draft OL early, but have commented on how difficult it is to project OL, and how it takes awhile for them to transition to the pro game.  They decided they needed to take the steps to make a better OL now.  Without the FA money to "buy" great guys, they put a development plan in place.  They'd go out and get 2 to 3 OL who should be current upgrades and sign them to short contracts.  They'd then be able to get early OL and not have to throw them to the wolves.  They can slot them in as they're ready and have an upgraded OL throughout.

This is the type of thing that happens when a new coach comes in...hire stopgap FA's and double up in the draft.  They decided it was time to remake the OL as if they were starting new after last year's debacle.  Throughout his tenure, Ryan has shown if you give him time, he'll shred you.  And just as clearly, last year we showed we couldn't pick up a 3rd and 1 to save our lives.

So this was the plan it seems.

 

Personally I would have doubled up on DL and taken one OL.  But at least you have to say this...the Falcons dedicated themselves to fixing the OL now and over the long haul.

 

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, takeitdown said:

 

Yep, putting their faith that they can get late gems on defense (we have 2 picks in the 4th, 5th and 6th rounds), and that with our playmakers back healthy that they can get back to top 10 form. 

It's a risky plan for sure, hope Quinn is ready to work magic with these guys.

 

Edited by B3TD
Brevity

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I LOVE this draft.  I understand that we have a big need at DT, but imo OL was way more important.  Our offense definitely has the potential to get back to 2016 form, but the one missing part was the OL.  Hopefully both of these rookies will come in and be immediate upgrades and give us a nasty OL that can dominate the LOS.  If that is the case then Matt, Julio, Ridley, Hooper, and the run game are going to light up the scoreboard and the need for DT wont be as pressing as it has been last year.   People forget that we still have a formidable  defense when healthy.  Debo, Neal, Rico, Kazee.  Maybe Beasley has a bounceback year under DQ and  Takk improve.

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6 minutes ago, B3TD said:

Yep, putting their faith that they can get late gems on defense (we have 2 picks in the 4th, 5th and 6th rounds), and that with our playmakers back healthy that they can get back to top 10 form. 

It's a risky plan for sure, hope Quinn is ready to work magic with these guys.

 

I think they're putting faith in Quinn and returning injured starters.

Also think they simply saw they were going to have to invest picks instead of money at OL at some point.  That will enable them to sign our D players as they come due because it lets high cap dollars roll off the OL.

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3 minutes ago, Falcons_Pantera_KoRn said:

I LOVE this draft.  I understand that we have a big need at DT, but imo OL was way more important.  Our offense definitely has the potential to get back to 2016 form, but the one missing part was the OL.  Hopefully both of these rookies will come in and be immediate upgrades and give us a nasty OL that can dominate the LOS.  If that is the case then Matt, Julio, Ridley, Hooper, and the run game are going to light up the scoreboard and the need for DT wont be as pressing as it has been last year.   People forget that we still have a formidable  defense when healthy.  Debo, Neal, Rico, Kazee.  Maybe Beasley has a bounceback year under DQ and  Takk improve.


you know as much as i wanted a big nasty DT we really don't have a big need there i just wanted one because of how good the prospects there were early in this draft.    Grady, Senat, Davison, Hageman, Crawford, Bennett, Zimmer, and Mariner.   Thats 7 DT's and i don't think we won't keep more than 4 or 5.  I can legitly say 4 or 5 of those guys i like and think can get the job done in   Grady, Senat, Davison, Crawford i know are solid and can do good work.  Hageman i think is a beast when he actually plays hard i hope he steps it up. Zimmer and Mariner aren't all that great but Zimmer i have seen before and i like him a bit.  I know nothing about mariner really lol.  rue i would have loved a 1st rounder to add to that but those 1st 4 + hageman if we keep him i think are quality enough to get the job done.  We also get cap space back from Julio's new contract, probably from Gradys new contract if he signs one, and from the june 1st schraeder deal.  We can legitly still get another 10 to 15 mil in cap space freed up between those 3 to sign a legit player or 2 to add to the DL or CB in FA after cuts are made.

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Just now, FalconFan13 said:


you know as much as i wanted a big nasty DT we really don't have a big need there i just wanted one because of how good the prospects there were early in this draft.    Grady, Senat, Davison, Hageman, Crawford, Bennett, Zimmer, and Mariner.   Thats 7 DT's and i don't think we won't keep more than 4 or 5.  I can legitly say 4 or 5 of those guys i like and think can get the job done in   Grady, Senat, Davison, Crawford i know are solid and can do good work.  Hageman i think is a beast when he actually plays hard i hope he steps it up. Zimmer and Mariner aren't all that great but Zimmer i have seen before and i like him a bit.  I know nothing about mariner really lol.  rue i would have loved a 1st rounder to add to that but those 1st 4 + hageman if we keep him i think are quality enough to get the job done.  We also get cap space back from Julio's new contract, probably from Gradys new contract if he signs one, and from the june 1st schraeder deal.  We can legitly still get another 10 to 15 mil in cap space freed up between those 3 to sign a legit player or 2 to add to the DL or CB in FA after cuts are made.

Zimmer and/or Hageman are going to have to step up.

I'd also say if the OL develop well, almost all next year FA and draft will be dedicated to defense.

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Just now, takeitdown said:

Zimmer and/or Hageman are going to have to step up.

I'd also say if the OL develop well, almost all next year FA and draft will be dedicated to defense.

Hageman just needs to play to his abilties.  **** if he even plays to his old abilities he gave us last time he was here im cool with it because that was as a starter.  As a 5th DT im fine with what he gave us last time but if he gives us more then watch out bc he can be a beast if he reaches max potential.  He was at one point in the top 6 of DT's in pressures for a year while here and thats only giving half effort lol.

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Just now, FalconFan13 said:

Hageman just needs to play to his abilties.  **** if he even plays to his old abilities he gave us last time he was here im cool with it because that was as a starter.  As a 5th DT im fine with what he gave us last time but if he gives us more then watch out bc he can be a beast if he reaches max potential.  He was at one point in the top 6 of DT's in pressures for a year while here and thats only giving half effort lol.

Yeah, we're going to have to get some guys overperforming on the DL.  A late rounder, UDFA, or a couple of the mid tier FA's we brought in...or all of the above.

I'd have loved Wilkins and then OL (what I thought we were going to do), but keeping Ryan upright and being able to pick up a 3rd and 2 by running would make this a legit no finesse offense.

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2 minutes ago, FalconFan13 said:

Hageman just needs to play to his abilties.  **** if he even plays to his old abilities he gave us last time he was here im cool with it because that was as a starter.  As a 5th DT im fine with what he gave us last time but if he gives us more then watch out bc he can be a beast if he reaches max potential.  He was at one point in the top 6 of DT's in pressures for a year while here and thats only giving half effort lol.

You thought Quinn went overboard with the brotherhood stuff before, he's gonna have his work cut out for him getting Beasley and Hageman to buy in... But man if they do, and Takk rebounds to where he can be, it could be something special.

Not holding my breath it will work out that well, but I feel like the plan from here is to just load up on as many lottery tickets as possible on defense, the opposite approach they took to the O-line, and whoever buys into Quinn's scheme is who plays.

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Just now, kiwifalcon said:

Need to pin this thread great explanation takeitdown.

Thanks Kiwi.  I was a little bummed not to take mauling DL, so tried to get in their heads.

I have no idea if the OL they picked will be world beaters, but there was at least a clear strategy.  And they took very athletic guys who you'd think you can train up.

Sort of the concept we like on DL (take a guy who's already productive but has a lot of athletic upside and try to maximize him) applied to the OL.

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43 minutes ago, FalconFan13 said:

Hageman just needs to play to his abilties.  **** if he even plays to his old abilities he gave us last time he was here im cool with it because that was as a starter.  As a 5th DT im fine with what he gave us last time but if he gives us more then watch out bc he can be a beast if he reaches max potential.  He was at one point in the top 6 of DT's in pressures for a year while here and thats only giving half effort lol.

FF13,

how is it even possible to have over 19,000 posts and have so few likes?

Lol.....

Your few posts I have read have been solid.

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58 minutes ago, duckhoa said:

FF13,

how is it even possible to have over 19,000 posts and have so few likes?

Lol.....

Your few posts I have read have been solid.

LOL im a Ninja i sneak in make a solid post and then vanish into the shadows while leaving a note threatening anyone who gives me a like with forcing them to watch JA98 Falcon highlight videos for a week straight.   That pretty much does the trick and gets people to turn around and walk the other way without a like :D

But in all seriousness this isn't even all my posts count wise actually i use to have a ton of posts when the boards reset awhile back it took all my posts and everything and put it all back to zero.  The mods did me a favor and atleast gave me what they could back post count wise.  But i would probably be in the 30k range now if i had all my original ones plus what i've done since then now.   As for the likes thing i have no clue my friend i guess im not a very well liked person around here :)

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1 hour ago, FalconFan13 said:

LOL im a Ninja i sneak in make a solid post and then vanish into the shadows while leaving a note threatening anyone who gives me a like with forcing them to watch JA98 Falcon highlight videos for a week straight.   That pretty much does the trick and gets people to turn around and walk the other way without a like :D

But in all seriousness this isn't even all my posts count wise actually i use to have a ton of posts when the boards reset awhile back it took all my posts and everything and put it all back to zero.  The mods did me a favor and atleast gave me what they could back post count wise.  But i would probably be in the 30k range now if i had all my original ones plus what i've done since then now.   As for the likes thing i have no clue my friend i guess im not a very well liked person around here :)

BTW, I don’t agree with the majority of your posts, but you are a great poster in my opinion. I hate that I never told you as much.

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3 hours ago, Falcons_Pantera_KoRn said:

I LOVE this draft.  I understand that we have a big need at DT, but imo OL was way more important.  Our offense definitely has the potential to get back to 2016 form, but the one missing part was the OL.  Hopefully both of these rookies will come in and be immediate upgrades and give us a nasty OL that can dominate the LOS.  If that is the case then Matt, Julio, Ridley, Hooper, and the run game are going to light up the scoreboard and the need for DT wont be as pressing as it has been last year.   People forget that we still have a formidable  defense when healthy.  Debo, Neal, Rico, Kazee.  Maybe Beasley has a bounceback year under DQ and  Takk improve.

The Davison and.Clayborn signings are.super underrated. We now.have 2 legitimate 0/1 techs to stop the run ,and keep IOL out of the second level. Resigning Clayborn, and promoting Means gives us good.edge setters with average (Means), and above average (Clayborn) pass rush ability.

And then there is the wild.card, the Hangman. Hageman must be in incredible shape, and look impressive in drills for this team to give him.a.second chance after the ****** taste he left in our mouths. He must have also appeared to have matured as a person, because im suprised we even sat down with him.

 

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57 minutes ago, Knight of God said:

BTW, I don’t agree with the majority of your posts, but you are a great poster in my opinion. I hate that I never told you as much.

lol we are usually on the opposite sides of most things although we agree every now and then but we have always respected the others opinions and atleast discussed it and tried to understand why the other person likes it a certain way.  If we couldn't agree we just moved along no harm done and talked it out on whatever the next subject was that came along.  I appreciate that you think that way though bro you alright to me.

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7 hours ago, takeitdown said:

This isn't what I would have done, but there's a very clear strategy to it.

The Falcons have quality skill positions on O and D, and subpar lines.  They've invested multiple first round picks in the DL lately.

They've wanted to draft OL early, but have commented on how difficult it is to project OL, and how it takes awhile for them to transition to the pro game.  They decided they needed to take the steps to make a better OL now.  Without the FA money to "buy" great guys, they put a development plan in place.  They'd go out and get 2 to 3 OL who should be current upgrades and sign them to short contracts.  They'd then be able to get early OL and not have to throw them to the wolves.  They can slot them in as they're ready and have an upgraded OL throughout.

This is the type of thing that happens when a new coach comes in...hire stopgap FA's and double up in the draft.  They decided it was time to remake the OL as if they were starting new after last year's debacle.  Throughout his tenure, Ryan has shown if you give him time, he'll shred you.  And just as clearly, last year we showed we couldn't pick up a 3rd and 1 to save our lives.

So this was the plan it seems.

 

Personally I would have doubled up on DL and taken one OL.  But at least you have to say this...the Falcons dedicated themselves to fixing the OL now and over the long haul.

 

I think this is a magnificent take bro. TD has whiffed on O-linemen numerous times and this time doesn’t wanna make the same mistake again. I’m perfectly happy with the picks and the signings. We’ve got plenty of help to throw at the wall and see what sticks as far as mixing and matching protection for Matt now!

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Hate it.

Lindstrom is a RIGHT NOW upgrade and will improve the run game and pass pro.No problem with the pick.

Trading up to take a developmental player (even if you truly believed would not have been there in the 2nd) makes no sense when Ford, Taylor, et al are there without losing a 2nd and a 3rd and are RIGHT NOW starters.

Hate it. We ignored really good players at the position to take a project for the future and this is great strategy?

Really hope there is something more compelling than that in the reasoning, hope I am very, very wrong.

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7 hours ago, B3TD said:

Yep, putting their faith that they can get late gems on defense (we have 2 picks in the 4th, 5th and 6th rounds), and that with our playmakers back healthy that they can get back to top 10 form. 

It's a risky plan for sure, hope Quinn is ready to work magic with these guys.

 

Quinn and TD have shown to have a much better track record at getting defensive talent in late rounds than offensive line players. I would say they have recognized this and playrd to their strengths . Not a bad way to go.

Also, the team has put more early round picks into defense than. offense in recent years.

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Posted (edited)

Here is why it does not hold water for me.

You have Wes, Fusco, and the 2 FA OGs ready to go pre-draft. Now with the horrible horrible line problems we had last year  (6 OG and 2 RT and no probowl RB) we still had a top 10 offense and 60% red zone offense. Your offense competed better than 22 other teams even after being gutted along the line and not having your best RB. You get Freeman back, you brought in 2 new guards with starting experience, why are we spending 1st rounders on more OL?. 

Our D on the other hand had zero depth after losing 2 safeties and losing your DT and MLB for half a year. 25th rank D with the 4th worst rush defense and gave up 4.9 avg per rush. Your fixes were to bring in Davidson a guy who N.O. loved but upgraded and then let him walk for VET MINIMUM! How much love and value do you really have when you won't pay a guy 735k? Next you bring in Hageman who hasn't played in 2 years and cannot play in the first 2 games due to suspension. People actually believe he is some sort of "prize". 

We outsmarted ourselves. Our defense will still get run on.

Edited by runshoot
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2 hours ago, Doug Carlton said:

Hate it.

Lindstrom is a RIGHT NOW upgrade and will improve the run game and pass pro.No problem with the pick.

Trading up to take a developmental player (even if you truly believed would not have been there in the 2nd) makes no sense when Ford, Taylor, et al are there without losing a 2nd and a 3rd and are RIGHT NOW starters.

Hate it. We ignored really good players at the position to take a project for the future and this is great strategy?

Really hope there is something more compelling than that in the reasoning, hope I am very, very wrong.

The guys they took were more athletic as well as more "try hard" guys than the ones they left.

I'm not saying I'd take these particular guys.  I'm saying there's a reason they went OG and OT at the beginning here that is a valid strategy.  They saw Matt get pummeled last year and our offense fail to convert on 3rd downs.  Our short run game was dreadful.

They went out and aimed to fix that.

I'm not a scout so I'm not going to get too into which OL they took.  They're not the ones I would have taken, but they're very athletic, experienced, and trainable.

I'd have gone DT, DE myself.  Or DT, OT.

I put this up because a lot of people were confused about how the FA and draft fit together, and I think that's how.

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22 minutes ago, runshoot said:

Here is why it does not hold water for me.

You have Wes, Fusco, and the 2 FA OGs ready to go pre-draft. Now with the horrible horrible line problems we had last year  (6 OG and 2 RT and no probowl RB) we still had a top 10 offense and 60% red zone offense. Your offense competed better than 22 other teams even after being gutted along the line and not having your best RB. You get Freeman back, you brought in 2 new guards with starting experience, why are we spending 1st rounders on more OL?. 

Our D on the other hand had zero depth after losing 2 safeties and losing your DT and MLB for half a year. 25th rank D with the 4th worst rush defense and gave up 4.9 avg per rush. Your fixes were to bring in Davidson a guy who N.O. loved but upgraded and then let him walk for VET MINIMUM! How much love and value do you really have when you won't pay a guy 735k? Next you bring in Hageman who hasn't played in 2 years and cannot play in the first 2 games due to suspension. People actually believe he is some sort of "prize". 

We outsmarted ourselves. Our defense will still get run on.

Yeah, I have concerns about our D.  Really wanted a D tackle early here.  I think our DL will be better than last year because of the signings and the maturation of young players, but I wanted to add a couple potential stars to that line.

Think they looked at that span of games where we averaged about 18 points per game and figured there's no reason for an offense like this to perform like that...and it was performing like that because the OL was being obliterated.  If these two OL fix that, it's a bigger deal than people give it credit for.  But they have to perform.

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1 minute ago, takeitdown said:

The guys they took were more athletic as well as more "try hard" guys than the ones they left.

I'm not saying I'd take these particular guys.  I'm saying there's a reason they went OG and OT at the beginning here that is a valid strategy.  They saw Matt get pummeled last year and our offense fail to convert on 3rd downs.  Our short run game was dreadful.

They went out and aimed to fix that.

I'm not a scout so I'm not going to get too into which OL they took.  They're not the ones I would have taken, but they're very athletic, experienced, and trainable.

I'd have gone DT, DE myself.  Or DT, OT.

I put this up because a lot of people were confused about how the FA and draft fit together, and I think that's how.

You are right.

In my ignorance and passion for the guys I have invested my own ego in, I have neglected to research Kaleb and his unique set of talents. This is am admission that I thought I was smarter and understood talent better than the pros.

Shame on me, let's all be thankful I am not in charge of the draft.

The more I understand the more excited I get. This is an awesome thing.

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I get it. But at the same time, I don't really like it.

We have big needs on the defensive line. Our OL depth makes our DL depth - and starters, for that matter - look laughably bad. I just wish they would have tried to address both, at least to some extent.

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6 hours ago, ATLSlobberKnockers said:

The Davison and.Clayborn signings are.super underrated. We now.have 2 legitimate 0/1 techs to stop the run ,and keep IOL out of the second level. Resigning Clayborn, and promoting Means gives us good.edge setters with average (Means), and above average (Clayborn) pass rush ability.

And then there is the wild.card, the Hangman. Hageman must be in incredible shape, and look impressive in drills for this team to give him.a.second chance after the ****** taste he left in our mouths. He must have also appeared to have matured as a person, because im suprised we even sat down with him.

 

Yup.

If he has matured Hageman is better than any DT that we could have gotten in the 2nd round IMO

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