Falconsin2012

The Hageman Debate

46 posts in this topic

And for the record, I’m glad he is getting another shot.  But some of the hyperbole regarding him is laughable.  After the 2016 season, he wasn’t a better player than Grady as I’ve seen suggested.

Honestly, if no off field issues surfaced, he likely would be playing elsewhere cause we wouldn’t have paid him 6-7 mill avg

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2 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

And for the record, I’m glad he is getting another shot.  But some of the hyperbole regarding him is laughable.  After the 2016 season, he wasn’t a better player than Grady as I’ve seen suggested.

Honestly, if no off field issues surfaced, he likely would be playing elsewhere cause we wouldn’t have paid him 6-7 mill avg

I know some don’t know what they are watching during a game and go to NFL Player Stats “Sacks” and then form their opinion of how good a player is, but that’s pretty silly.

PFF breaks down every single snap on film,  and looks at something called QB “Pressures”.

In 2016, Hageman was ranked #4 out of 127 DTs in the NFL in QB pressures per snap. 

In 3 playoff games playing in a rotational role in 2016 Hageman had 1 sack, 2 QB hits,  3 TFL and 5 solo tackles. 

In case that was missed, Hageman was #4 in the entire NFL of all DTs in pressures per snap.  

Nothing to see here folks.....hitting QBs, pounding on QBs and putting pressure on QBs doesn’t help a defense at all. Only sacks matter.

20151127__rashede-hageman-hit.jpg?w=524
 

Camp Body

 

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13 minutes ago, gazoo said:

I know some don’t know what they are watching during a game and go to NFL Player Stats to form their opinions, but that’s pretty silly.

PFF breaks down every single snap on film,  and looks at something called QB “Pressures”.

In 2016, Hageman was ranked #4 out of 127 DTs in the NFL in QB pressures per snap. 

In case that was missed, Hageman was #4 in the entire NFL of all DTs in pressures per snap.  

Nothing to see here folks.....hitting QBs, pounding on QBs and putting pressure on QBs doesn’t help a defense at all. Only sacks matter.

20151127__rashede-hageman-hit.jpg?w=524
 

Camp Body

 

You're so easy to irritate. I think you need to find someone to help your troubled ***.

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Posted (edited)

17 minutes ago, gazoo said:

I know some don’t know what they are watching during a game and go to NFL Player Stats to form their opinions, but that’s pretty silly.

PFF breaks down every single snap on film,  and looks at something called QB “Pressures”.

In 2016, Hageman was ranked #4 out of 127 DTs in the NFL in QB pressures per snap. 

In case that was missed, Hageman was #4 in the entire NFL of all DTs in pressures per snap.  

Nothing to see here folks.....

 

PFF, also didn't rank Cody Ford or Dexter Lawrence as first rounders in the draft, didn't rank Matt Ryan as a top 8 QB despite him being top 5 in virtually every QB statistical category from total yards, yards per game,  TDs, completion percentage,  etc. 

PFF is a useful tool, but should not be taken as the final verdict on anything. 

Edited by MD-FalconFan13

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34 minutes ago, gazoo said:

I know some don’t know what they are watching during a game and go to NFL Player Stats to form their opinions, but that’s pretty silly.

PFF breaks down every single snap on film,  and looks at something called QB “Pressures”.

In 2016, Hageman was ranked #4 out of 127 DTs in the NFL in QB pressures per snap. 

In 3 playoff games playing in a rotational role in 2016 Hageman had 1 sack, 2 QB hits,  3 TFL and 5 solo tackles. 

In case that was missed, Hageman was #4 in the entire NFL of all DTs in pressures per snap.  

Nothing to see here folks.....hitting QBs, pounding on QBs and putting pressure on QBs doesn’t help a defense at all. Only sacks matter.

20151127__rashede-hageman-hit.jpg?w=524
 

Camp Body

 

Again, I’m glad they brought him back.  But if he is the “harbinger of death & qb pressures” like you claim, why has he touched an NFL QB a total of 12 times and made just NINE tackles behind the LOS in 3 years

3 years, 4 sacks, 9 TFL & 12 QB hits...

And I know exactly what I see when watching a football game.  We aren’t splitting the atom

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10 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

 

A for effort..... c- for execution :)

 

 

lol...make one for the Pro-Hageman side.  And I wasn’t calling you out, brotha.  Promise.  

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25 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

You're so easy to irritate. I think you need to find someone to help your troubled ***.

Buddy probably thinks Haggleman is the 4th best pass rushing DT in the National Football League. Just listen to how that sounds bro.

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29 minutes ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

PFF, also didn't rank Cody Ford or Dexter Lawrence as first rounders in the draft, didn't rank Matt Ryan as a top 8 QB despite him being top 5 in virtually every QB statistical category from total yards, yards per game,  TDs, completion percentage,  etc. 

PFF is a useful tool, but should not be taken as the final verdict on anything. 

I agree PFF is not absolute, which is why I discussed watching him play, as well as how he played in the 2016 playoffs when he started playing at full production.

In any event, PFF rating Hageman #4 of #127 NFL DTs in pressures per snap in 2016 absolutely does suggest he gets a lot of QB pressures. Again, if you watch him play that is obvious.

Hageman spent two years in a limited role rotating in and out as he learned how to play the game at this level.  Many NFL linemen  don’t start peaking until their 3rd years. So 2016 is the most relevant year in assessing how good Hageman can play, if others want to water it down by including his early development where he played sparingly that’s their agenda.

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4 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

lol...make one for the Pro-Hageman side.  And I wasn’t calling you out, brotha.  Promise.  

no worries man.... it is all in good fun.

 

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2 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

I just think it's funny how after every single low level signing some here act like it's completely altered the draft plan. No single signing over the last two months has changed anything draft wise. 

Bingo bro. Our splash signing this year was Jamon ***** Brown. A part time starter who is a journeyman OG on his fourth team in five years. His PFF rating was 51.7 last year which ranks 62nd out of 77 qualifiers. Yet TATF says RG is fixed. Gazoo is already planning a freakin blind homer parade.

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1 hour ago, BoomGoesTheDynamite said:

As long as he can help put Kamara, McCaffery and Barber on their rear, I don't care about him being 'better' than Grady

You nailed it. You see how some of his detractors are framing their argument though, if he’s not an ALL Pro then anyone who thinks he’s a very good rotational depth DT who can add pocket collapsing power and interior pressure in passing game  to the rotation can help us is wrong.  

My argument is sound. He’s a very good rotational depth DT that can be absolutely dominating at times, including the 2016 playoffs.  He started off very inconsistent his first two years playing sparingly, but his 3rd season by about halfway through, he started playing at a much higher level and was an absolute beast down the stretch and into the 2016 playoffs. 

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7 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Bingo bro. Our splash signing this year was Jamon ***** Brown. A part time starter who is a journeyman OG on his fourth team in five years. His PFF rating was 51.7 last year which ranks 62nd out of 77 qualifiers. Yet TATF says RG is fixed. Gazoo is already planning a freakin blind homer parade.

I will never let a cynical negative fan like you bring me down to your level of complaining and spreading panic all the time. Your game is darkness. You are controlled by fear.

I love my Falcons and I make no apologies to the Doubting Thomas’s.

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51 minutes ago, gazoo said:

I know some don’t know what they are watching during a game and go to NFL Player Stats to form their opinions, but that’s pretty silly.

PFF breaks down every single snap on film,  and looks at something called QB “Pressures”.

In 2016, Hageman was ranked #4 out of 127 DTs in the NFL in QB pressures per snap. 

In 3 playoff games playing in a rotational role in 2016 Hageman had 1 sack, 2 QB hits,  3 TFL and 5 solo tackles. 

In case that was missed, Hageman was #4 in the entire NFL of all DTs in pressures per snap.  

Nothing to see here folks.....hitting QBs, pounding on QBs and putting pressure on QBs doesn’t help a defense at all. Only sacks matter.

20151127__rashede-hageman-hit.jpg?w=524
 

Camp Body

 

In 20-freaking-17.

This "but Mike Vick went to prison and came back better!" nonsense is hilarious too.

I honestly hope Hageman makes me eat platefull's of crow and he turns out to be a very good contributor or hopefully even better.  But I've been following this sport too long and know he's got about a 1% chance of even making the 53, much less dressing with the 46 and balling out.  And... if he does end up being a decent snap percentage contributor, God help our team if a guy who's been away from the game for 2 years is someone we have to depend on for significant snaps and quality play.

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9 minutes ago, gazoo said:

I will never let a cynical negative fan like you bring me down to your level of complaining and spreading panic all the time. Your game is darkness. You are controlled by fear.

I love my Falcons and I make no apologies to the Doubting Thomas’s.

Y’all are so similar, though.  Like brothers.  Nobody could ever question how much you guys love the Falcons.  But when you argue, irs like

C-658VsXoAo3ovC.jpg

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Posted (edited)

I haven't participated in this argument as there is no practical downside to bringing him into camp to complete.  He can either play well enough that the team overlooks his history, age and 2-game suspension or he goes back to whatever he was doing the past couple years.   No idea why this is controversial.

Edited by Monolith2001
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6 minutes ago, Monolith2001 said:

I haven't participated in this argument as there is no practical downside to bringing him into camp to complete.  He can either play well enough that the team overlooks his history, age and 2-game suspension or he goes back to whatever he was doing the past couple years.   No idea why this is controversial.

Most seem to be in this camp

It's only a couple weirdos on the board who are acting like either he's amazing and this is a gamechanging signing or he sucks and this is a terrible move 

Both camps should be equally ignored 

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4 minutes ago, hjerry said:

Most seem to be in this camp

It's only a couple weirdos on the board who are acting like either he's amazing and this is a gamechanging signing or he sucks and this is a terrible move 

Both camps should be equally ignored 

Agree...Petty boorish behavior on both sides. 

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10 minutes ago, Beef said:

In 20-freaking-17.

This "but Mike Vick went to prison and came back better!" nonsense is hilarious too.

I honestly hope Hageman makes me eat platefull's of crow and he turns out to be a very good contributor or hopefully even better.  But I've been following this sport too long and know he's got about a 1% chance of even making the 53, much less dressing with the 46 and balling out.  And... if he does end up being a decent snap percentage contributor, God help our team if a guy who's been away from the game for 2 years is someone we have to depend on for significant snaps and quality play.

One thing I’ve learned in life in general is nerve count anybody out. One thing you can’t measure is heart. The odds are against him but if he’s anything like me he’ll prove all naysayers wrong. And the Vick thing does have a little credibility because neither fame back from injury. Vick has his best completion percentage after being out of the league for two years. He played the position better than he ever did as a falcon as a passer. That’s a fact. But he also changed his approach to the game and actually watched film. I don’t know if hag will make it but I do know he was never injured. If he kept himself in decent shape it won’t be all that difficult for a non injured player to come back. Ricky williams did it after 4 years out of the league. Hag is an athletic freak so he already had an edge over players that aren’t so physically blessed. The last thing is he’s not expected to be a main piece. Just a rotational piece that helps. Like he was when he was first here. His signing doesn’t change the draft and I still hope they get Oliver. If hag works out he makes the from rotation stronger. Especially on run sets. If anything all he needs to do is out muscle guys in the run game. Like you I’ve watched enough football as well as playing for a long time myself to know that the unexpected happens too. Comebacks happen. Second chances happen. Ppl have made the best of comebacks. OJ Anderson was counted out. Randall Cunningham was counted out. Robert Edwards came back after they said he wouldn’t walk again and might have to get his leg amputated. The deck is stacked against him no doubt and he’s at the bottom but I at least think he can beat out Zimmer and Bennet. That’s who he’s competing with. Plaxeco came back after what? 4 years and played decent. I’m not disagreeing with your take. Just stating that it’s not an impossible feat. 

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