VTCrunkler

Wilkins vs. Lawrence

229 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Knight of God said:

Seahawks lined Red at LE, RE, and DT. It was the 4-3 under just like us and he caused a lot of issues. Also, he wore the OT down for the rush ends. The strategy was tedious, but effective.

True but that was 2008-2012, i.e. prior to the explosion of 11 personnel groupings on offense and consequently the explosion of nickel and 'big' nickel packages on defense to stop it. Coincidently 2012 was the year Nickel first became more prevalent than base defenses. 2015 it became the most used defensive package of all.

Teams are now in base approximately 30% of the time with the remainder spent in sub packages. Prior to 2012 it was almost the flip reverse.

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1 hour ago, Smiler11 said:

True but that was 2008-2012, i.e. prior to the explosion of 11 personnel groupings on offense and consequently the explosion of nickel and 'big' nickel packages on defense to stop it. Coincidently 2012 was the year Nickel first became more prevalent than base defenses. 2015 it became the most used defensive package of all.

Teams are now in base approximately 30% of the time with the remainder spent in sub packages. Prior to 2012 it was almost the flip reverse.

It doesn’t matter. When you get cute you lose. This is why Belichick beats the breaks off people. He’ll go old school Medieval on that hiney the minute you get college new school. Old school still works if you create a wrinkle. This system doesn’t work without 3-4 pieces. 

The way you make that look work is using an all pro where you once had a journeyman and in new school style, move him around more. You do what everyone else is doing and you’re easy to prep for. 

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Until the Falcons defense can effectively and consistently slow down the run game they are going to get battered and beaten. When they face actually good offenses that can run and pass it is a nightmare because those offenses can dictate the entire game to us. When they face teams with big OLs and good RBs they just get steamrolled. Those offenses then get to pick and choose when they run and when they pass to further crush the Falcons defense. Meanwhile our theoretical high scoring offense is sitting on the sideline with their theoretical three touchdown lead that allows our defense to be a 'stop the pass' (small and fast/pass rush) defense...  which still can't generate a decent pass rush, stop the run, stop the short passing game, or get off the field with any measure of meaningful success.

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10 minutes ago, m2Falcons said:

Until the Falcons defense can effectively and consistently slow down the run game they are going to get battered and beaten. When they face actually good offenses that can run and pass it is a nightmare because those offenses can dictate the entire game to us. When they face teams with big OLs and good RBs they just get steamrolled. Those offenses then get to pick and choose when they run and when they pass to further crush the Falcons defense. Meanwhile our theoretical high scoring offense is sitting on the sideline with their theoretical three touchdown lead that allows our defense to be a 'stop the pass' (small and fast/pass rush) defense...  which still can't generate a decent pass rush, stop the run, stop the short passing game, or get off the field with any measure of meaningful success.

PreschPreach

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3 minutes ago, Beast-N-Da-Sheetz said:

It's kinda strange how everybody wanted Vita Vea last year even as a top 5, but most people wouldn't take Lawrence with a top 20 pick this year. He's been way better than Vea in college. 

Between Wilkins and Lawrence, you can't lose with either of them.

Finally!

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28 minutes ago, Beast-N-Da-Sheetz said:

It's kinda strange how everybody wanted Vita Vea last year even as a top 5, but most people wouldn't take Lawrence with a top 20 pick this year. He's been way better than Vea in college. 

Between Wilkins and Lawrence, you can't lose with either of them.

Facts!

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53 minutes ago, m2Falcons said:

Until the Falcons defense can effectively and consistently slow down the run game they are going to get battered and beaten. When they face actually good offenses that can run and pass it is a nightmare because those offenses can dictate the entire game to us. When they face teams with big OLs and good RBs they just get steamrolled. Those offenses then get to pick and choose when they run and when they pass to further crush the Falcons defense. Meanwhile our theoretical high scoring offense is sitting on the sideline with their theoretical three touchdown lead that allows our defense to be a 'stop the pass' (small and fast/pass rush) defense...  which still can't generate a decent pass rush, stop the run, stop the short passing game, or get off the field with any measure of meaningful success.

Holy s. I’m thinking you’re describing Steelers and patriots 

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1 hour ago, Beast-N-Da-Sheetz said:

It's kinda strange how everybody wanted Vita Vea last year even as a top 5, but most people wouldn't take Lawrence with a top 20 pick this year. He's been way better than Vea in college. 

Between Wilkins and Lawrence, you can't lose with either of them.

I agree completely. 

Lawrence has Top 5 pick talent IMO. He’ll be a lot better pass rusher in NFL than most TAFTers can fathom.

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5 hours ago, m2Falcons said:

Until the Falcons defense can effectively and consistently slow down the run game they are going to get battered and beaten. When they face actually good offenses that can run and pass it is a nightmare because those offenses can dictate the entire game to us. When they face teams with big OLs and good RBs they just get steamrolled. Those offenses then get to pick and choose when they run and when they pass to further crush the Falcons defense. Meanwhile our theoretical high scoring offense is sitting on the sideline with their theoretical three touchdown lead that allows our defense to be a 'stop the pass' (small and fast/pass rush) defense...  which still can't generate a decent pass rush, stop the run, stop the short passing game, or get off the field with any measure of meaningful success.

Amen!!!

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Lawrence isnt getting the respect for the athlete he is. You guys out here acting like he is just Gilbert Brown or Grady Jackson. He isn't a lazy bum like Bama's Terrance Cody from some years ago. 

Dude is a great athlete at his size. He is a great run stuffer but not just in the A or B gap. He makes plays all over the tackle box. He gets push and can ragdoll an OL 1v1 to get into backfield. 

The biggest plus is that he would free up Grady and free up Debo and Keanu to come down and make plays vs the run. You have to stop the run 1st. We couldn't beat Cleveland or Baltimore...2 teams with rookie QBs because we couldnt slow their run game. 

Lawrence brings nasty. Think about Keke with this one. Outside of myself and a couple others.....NOBODY wanted Keanu at #17. Nobody!!!! He was the perfect fit in our system despite having a late 1st to 2nd grade consensually. He came in and wrecked the NFL and was just what we needed. Lawrence will be that for us in 2019. 

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Posted (edited)

45 minutes ago, Stryka said:

Lawrence isnt getting the respect for the athlete he is. You guys out here acting like he is just Gilbert Brown or Grady Jackson. He isn't a lazy bum like Bama's Terrance Cody from some years ago. 

Dude is a great athlete at his size. He is a great run stuffer but not just in the A or B gap. He makes plays all over the tackle box. He gets push and can ragdoll an OL 1v1 to get into backfield. 

The biggest plus is that he would free up Grady and free up Debo and Keanu to come down and make plays vs the run. You have to stop the run 1st. We couldn't beat Cleveland or Baltimore...2 teams with rookie QBs because we couldnt slow their run game. 

Lawrence brings nasty. Think about Keke with this one. Outside of myself and a couple others.....NOBODY wanted Keanu at #17. Nobody!!!! He was the perfect fit in our system despite having a late 1st to 2nd grade consensually. He came in and wrecked the NFL and was just what we needed. Lawrence will be that for us in 2019. 

No one knew who Keke was. He wasnt on many folks’ radar. 

Edited by VTCrunkler

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I'll take Lawrence.

 

I think Lawrence is better then just a big body... ppl bring up Vea... Man I think Larence is more explodive then vea... He has wayyyyy longer arms .... Those are things that show up in the NFL with good NFL coaching ....

 

If we go lawrence... I hope we can get him down to like 330-325 and get a lil more explosive with that arm length and coaching .....

Mannnnnn

Like Dabo said.. He is the most unique player he has ever coached... A guy that big and athletic

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Some folks use the notion that Lawrence is only a 2 down player. Let’s say he is, “only a 2 down player,” then what good is it, “he won’t be on the field for 3rd down,” if our defense can’t even get an offense to a 3rd down to begin with because the offense routinely converts/scores on 1st and 2nd downs? 

That’s what the best offenses are doing. They’re not just focused on converting 3rd down. They want to convert/score on 1st and 2nd downs. Lawrence provides what this defense desperately needs...a mammoth of a man who muddles up run lanes and frees up the linebackers and other guys. Dude still provides some pass rush as well, and also has an awesome knack for batting down passes. 

Wilkins, though a great penetrator & ideal 3-tech, gives us more of what we already have. A smaller DT who can apply pressure but still causes our defensive front to get carved up, steamrolled, and pummeled on the ground. Saints twice a year, Eagles, Rams, Cowboys, and Redskins offensive lines in the same conference? It’s imperative that the defensive front becomes more stout at stopping the run.

Sacks and pressure are important and awesome. Absolutely. So is causing an offense to waste a down with a 0-1 yard gain up the middle.

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15 minutes ago, CTann said:

if our defense can’t even get an offense to a 3rd down to begin with because the offense routinely converts/scores on 1st and 2nd downs? 

mind blown.  not really. but wow, a great point

m2Falcons, CTann, Drew4719 and 1 other like this

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10 hours ago, Knight of God said:

Seahawks lined Red at LE, RE, and DT. It was the 4-3 under just like us and he caused a lot of issues. Also, he wore the OT down for the rush ends. The strategy was tedious, but effective.

I was looking at an over front with Lawrence at the 3 Jarrett/Senat @1 and playing a mix of Takk or Means on the ends against the run.

Regardless I was thinking against the run Lawrence will play on the strong side regardless which puts credence to what you mentioned about Lawrence playing a lot of 3T.

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3 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

I was looking at an over front with Lawrence at the 3 Jarrett/Senat @1 and playing a mix of Takk or Means on the ends against the run.

Regardless I was thinking against the run Lawrence will play on the strong side regardless which puts credence to what you mentioned about Lawrence playing a lot of 3T.

Let me thank you for taking the time to look into it rather than go by face value. I enjoy talking football. I’m not a fan of whatever this other stuff is.

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1 hour ago, Falconsin2012 said:

The only valid concern regarding Dex is his ability to stay on the field.  If healthy, he is top-5 talent.  

And 35 inch arms, 36 on bench and 5.00 in the 40.  He is bigger, faster & stronger than Wilkins 

True.

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