Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Spts1

The Falcons should trade up to get Quinnen Williams

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

I wonder why Pioli suddenly bounced?  Was he in the camp of " drafting defense"...:ninja:

Lindstrom and McGary were Pioli picks.

Don't think Pioli was bounced - just think he wanted to find some pathway to being a GM or team President or something - at the time, thought he was going for Jets GM job but that never materialized.   Pioli wasn't perfect either but we got better when he was here.  Pioli had an OK record picking OLinemen - we know that is a TD blindspot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You draft players for a 4-10yr return - not for the first 3 pre-season games.  Offensive linemen aren't sexy picks.  This need to pre-judge the draft after one horrific Offensive Line performance in pre-season is comical.

I was VERY CRITICAL of it as well - especially as Matty Ice was the wishbone pull to the Jets DL and blitz but reject turning this into a Quinnen Williams vs  Lindstrom/McGary tradeup scenario.

The offensive line had to be addressed and we had to get younger there.   Jamon Brown and James Carpenter are nothing more than journeyman that are bouncing around the NFL - they may or may not be good stop gaps.  I'm highly confident we will do well w/ Lindstrom and confident but maybe a little less so w/ McGary - hopefully both will have nice careers.

Falcons are consolidating their gains in drafts the last few years w/ extensions to key players plus Matt/Julio.  Draft picks are more valuable than ever with what will be a super-tight cap the next few years.  Winning those last 3 games in 2018 and taking us from like 6th pick in the draft to the 14th shut out any possibility of grabbing a guy like QW.

Falcons have to keep drafting well and need more picks - not less.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

You draft players for a 4-10yr return - not for the first 3 pre-season games.  Offensive linemen aren't sexy picks.  This need to pre-judge the draft after one horrific Offensive Line performance in pre-season is comical.

I was VERY CRITICAL of it as well - especially as Matty Ice was the wishbone pull to the Jets DL and blitz but reject turning this into a Quinnen Williams vs  Lindstrom/McGary tradeup scenario.

The offensive line had to be addressed and we had to get younger there.   Jamon Brown and James Carpenter are nothing more than journeyman that are bouncing around the NFL - they may or may not be good stop gaps.  I'm highly confident we will do well w/ Lindstrom and confident but maybe a little less so w/ McGary - hopefully both will have nice careers.

Falcons are consolidating their gains in drafts the last few years w/ extensions to key players plus Matt/Julio.  Draft picks are more valuable than ever with what will be a super-tight cap the next few years.  Winning those last 3 games in 2018 and taking us from like 6th pick in the draft to the 14th shut out any possibility of grabbing a guy like QW.

Falcons have to keep drafting well and need more picks - not less.

 

Everything you said is spot on.  We are just going back and forth over whether the value of Quinnen makes this draft a exception. I agree after looking at the line in this short period of time that it had to be addressed. Again, no problem there.

 When Dimitroff drafted Julio the Falcons had holes everywhere but Dimitroff deemed Julio THAT good to not pass up.  On paper, Dimitroff made a bad move at the time.  The results proved otherwise.  I just feel that Quinnen would have been the same type of deal with the Falcons giving up less than they did to get Julio. Would it have left major holes on the offensive line?  Yes, but Quinnen would have transferred the defense into a unit that could eat up some of the loss on the other side of the ball.  If Ryan wasn't such a **** statue back there...:lol:   Run, Ryan, Run sometimes...:lol:

Edited by slickgadawg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

Everything you said is spot on.  We are just going back and forth over whether the value of Quinnen makes this draft a exception. I agree after looking at the line in this short period of time that it had to be addressed. Again, no problem there.

 When Dimitroff drafted Julio the Falcons had holes everywhere but Dimitroff deemed Julio THAT good to not pass up.  On paper, Dimitroff made a bad move at the time.  The results proved otherwise.  I just feel that Quinnen would have been the same type of deal with the Falcons giving up less than they did to get Julio. Would it have left major holes on the offensive line?  Yes, but Quinnen would have transferred the defense into a unit that could eat up some of the loss on the other side of the ball.  If Ryan wasn't such a **** statue back there...:lol:   Run, Ryan, Run sometimes...:lol:

Wouldn't have cost less than Julio. Stop spreading that lie dude. You'd have to over pay for the draft pick to get SF or NY to give it to you since they will miss out on their guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

Everything you said is spot on.  We are just going back and forth over whether the value of Quinnen makes this draft a exception. I agree after looking at the line in this short period of time that it had to be addressed. Again, no problem there.

 When Dimitroff drafted Julio the Falcons had holes everywhere but Dimitroff deemed Julio THAT good to not pass up.  On paper, Dimitroff made a bad move at the time.  The results proved otherwise.  I just feel that Quinnen would have been the same type of deal with the Falcons giving up less than they did to get Julio. Would it have left major holes on the offensive line?  Yes, but Quinnen would have transferred the defense into a unit that could eat up some of the loss on the other side of the ball.  If Ryan wasn't such a **** statue back there...:lol:   Run, Ryan, Run sometimes...:lol:

Matt Ryan is a Top 5-7 QB, he will likely stay in that range for next 4-5yrs. 15-20 teams would like to have Matty Ice as their QB right now, today.

Falcons have enough star players - we need our starters that aren't stars to be better.   We also have some young guys w/ promise.   Excited about the possibilities w/ Cominsky and others.

Offensive Line - I still haven't heard your plan for it with trading what we would have had to trade to get up to get QW - "in theory" almost anything can sound good - but you gloss right over the opportunity cost (things we cannot have) if we draft QW.   Anything less than 80% of Aaron Donald and the trade would be a cluster.  Moreover, not only would QW have to be a star - but he would have to be a HEALTHY star - AND - you would have to "get lucky" in drafting late round offensive linemen in a way you haven't been lucky in 11 years.

Falcons aren't great on the DLine but they are better than they have been since the days of Kerney/Abraham duo with some decent DTs.

I like our chances w/ Grady, Vic, Takk, Crawford, Clayborn, Davison, Senat and Comminsky.   Granted, the only sure-thing is Grady and some of those guys are on one year deals and/or are old - but a DL coach as good as DQ ought to be able to scheme those guys up fairly well.      The OL has NO SHOT w/ Schweitzer and Sambrailo starting.

Was it the right move? - will it work? - we shall see but it was the right move.  Hopefully we picked the right guys in Lindstrom/McGary - as there were multiple other choices in a draft that had decent OL talent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, slickgadawg said:

Everything you said is spot on.  We are just going back and forth over whether the value of Quinnen makes this draft a exception. I agree after looking at the line in this short period of time that it had to be addressed. Again, no problem there.

 When Dimitroff drafted Julio the Falcons had holes everywhere but Dimitroff deemed Julio THAT good to not pass up.  On paper, Dimitroff made a bad move at the time.  The results proved otherwise.  I just feel that Quinnen would have been the same type of deal with the Falcons giving up less than they did to get Julio. Would it have left major holes on the offensive line?  Yes, but Quinnen would have transferred the defense into a unit that could eat up some of the loss on the other side of the ball.  If Ryan wasn't such a **** statue back there...:lol:   Run, Ryan, Run sometimes...:lol:

The results proved otherwise because we didn’t have holes everywhere. We had a running back, we had abe, Willy Mo and the other guy were ball hawks, spoon was good, nicholas was good, Grimes, TG, etc...where were all the holes? That one pick got us over the playoff hump. The holes didn’t come until 2013. Mud duck retired, abe, Robinson, and turner gone. That’s when the holes came. When we got Julio we were a solid team from front to back. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

The results proved otherwise because we didn’t have holes everywhere. We had a running back, we had abe, Willy Mo and the other guy were ball hawks, spoon was good, nicholas was good, Grimes, TG, etc...where were all the holes? That one pick got us over the playoff hump. The holes didn’t come until 2013. Mud duck retired, abe, Robinson, and turner gone. That’s when the holes came. When we got Julio we were a solid team from front to back. 

The team didn't have many holes but it also didn't have much in the way of depth. Akeem Dent, Peter Konz and Dominique Franks qualify as weak spots though.

When Abe went down in a meaningless game against the Bucs the passrush vanished. Also Grimes getting IR'd after the first game of the season really didn't help. With Abe and Grimes I'm sure we'd have won the SB that year..

Edited by EuroFalcon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, EuroFalcon said:

The team didn't have many holes but it also didn't have much in the way of depth. Akeem Dent, Peter Konz and Dominique Franks qualify as weak spots though.

When Abe went down in a meaningless game against the Bucs the passrush vanished. Also Grimes getting IR'd after the first game of the season really didn't help. With Abe and Grimes I'm sure we'd have won the SB that year..

Thats been the number one criticism of the Julio trade, the depth that people said the Falcons didn't have...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, g-dawg said:

You draft players for a 4-10yr return - not for the first 3 pre-season games.  Offensive linemen aren't sexy picks.  This need to pre-judge the draft after one horrific Offensive Line performance in pre-season is comical.

I was VERY CRITICAL of it as well - especially as Matty Ice was the wishbone pull to the Jets DL and blitz but reject turning this into a Quinnen Williams vs  Lindstrom/McGary tradeup scenario.

The offensive line had to be addressed and we had to get younger there.   Jamon Brown and James Carpenter are nothing more than journeyman that are bouncing around the NFL - they may or may not be good stop gaps.  I'm highly confident we will do well w/ Lindstrom and confident but maybe a little less so w/ McGary - hopefully both will have nice careers.

Falcons are consolidating their gains in drafts the last few years w/ extensions to key players plus Matt/Julio.  Draft picks are more valuable than ever with what will be a super-tight cap the next few years.  Winning those last 3 games in 2018 and taking us from like 6th pick in the draft to the 14th shut out any possibility of grabbing a guy like QW.

Falcons have to keep drafting well and need more picks - not less.

 

If anything preseason showed why we needed Mcgary and Lindstrom. Our Gs and Rt are bandaids at best, and their play was aweful. Gono, Sombrero, and Brown didn't look too good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would have been great... But the DT I wanted was Christian Wilkins that would not have taken half our picks to move up for.. AAMOF,, Quinn said he did try to trade up for Wilkins but no one would work with him....  Williams is better I know,, But Wilkins is going to be a beast also.. not to far under Williams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Draftnut57 said:

It would have been great... But the DT I wanted was Christian Wilkins that would not have taken half our picks to move up for.. AAMOF,, Quinn said he did try to trade up for Wilkins but no one would work with him....  Williams is better I know,, But Wilkins is going to be a beast also.. not to far under Williams.

Someone will work with you most times if you pay THEIR price.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Osiruz said:

If anything preseason showed why we needed Mcgary and Lindstrom. Our Gs and Rt are bandaids at best, and their play was aweful. Gono, Sombrero, and Brown didn't look too good.

To be fair, neither did Lindstrom (or any other OL) against jets. 

To your point, Brown/Carp/Ty are journeyman fringe players at best. We had to address OL in this draft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lindstrom has overall had a strong preseason so far. He made his first rookie mistakes vs the Jets, but was hardly a massive failure or glaring weakness.

The only guy from Jets game that was just flat out bad all game was Ty.

Brown was better than people are saying as well. His worst play he is tripped by Matthews. He also destroyed QW on another play. So, is QW suddenly a bad player? Point is good players will win and lose reps vs other good players. That’s just football.

Much more than that, we are trying to get a unit together for the first time. FIRST game snaps as a unit; minus McGary and to a lesser extent Carpenter from injury...and we overreact.

Most of the bad play outside of Ty was correctable technique or protection scheme adjustments or LOS calls.

Ty was consistently struggling.

I don’t get how our first round OL get thrown in the fire over that. You need Kaleb now more than ever and Lindstrom is your best OG so far. I think Brown wins the LG job and Carp heals to be insurance. Gono has improved in his 2nd year and is worth holding onto for 3rd OT role after we cut Ty next offseason.

But this emo fest needs to stop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Vandy said:

To be fair, neither did Lindstrom (or any other OL) against jets. 

To your point, Brown/Carp/Ty are journeyman fringe players at best. We had to address OL in this draft.

I think Lindstrom will be a Pro Bowl player, but we could have drafted defense in 1st round and grabbed Risner (Minchack is raving about him) and McCoy in the 2nd.  Would have likely provided similar value while also adding a high first round defensive player.

Hindsight is 20/20..I know

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Vandy said:

To be fair, neither did Lindstrom (or any other OL) against jets. 

To your point, Brown/Carp/Ty are journeyman fringe players at best. We had to address OL in this draft.

Then why did TD pay them like starters? On contracts we can't get out of this year? Possibly next year either? I agree with what you said. I have said that they were rejects from some of the worst lines in pro football, and should not have been signed as anything more than camp bodies/emergency depth: not paid as starters with player-friendly contracts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Roanoke Falcon said:

Then why did TD pay them like starters? On contracts we can't get out of this year? Possibly next year either? I agree with what you said. I have said that they were rejects from some of the worst lines in pro football, and should not have been signed as anything more than camp bodies/emergency depth: not paid as starters with player-friendly contracts.

I have no idea why.

TD had a great offseason overall shoring up the D and locking down Jarrett/Jones/Julio....but signing 3 fringe OL starter money were head scratchers to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  1.  
16 minutes ago, Roanoke Falcon said:

Then why did TD pay them like starters? On contracts we can't get out of this year? Possibly next year either? I agree with what you said. I have said that they were rejects from some of the worst lines in pro football, and should not have been signed as anything more than camp bodies/emergency depth: not paid as starters with player-friendly contracts.

It's not uncommon at all for veteran OLine to take a few years to establish themselves. You would have said the same thing about Clabo and Dahl in 2008.

Brown IS a starter, and at 4.5 mil, that's a reasonable price. Carpenter is the back up for 2.85 mil-that's a high paid back up, I'm fine with that. They paid Garland more than that last year.

2020 gets a little more pricey, but Carpenter CAN be cut, and Ty almost certainly will be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love these post draft exercises in futility where we dredge up a hindsight, “look at me” topic, about a can’t-miss player who we’d have to trade away the world to get.

Sorry but every year there’ll be numbers of players who’ll be good, but due to draft position, we just couldn’t afford.

Lmao, give me a break.  This place can be so predictable sometimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, falconidae said:
  1.  

It's not uncommon at all for veteran OLine to take a few years to establish themselves. You would have said the same thing about Clabo and Dahl in 2008.

Brown IS a starter, and at 4.5 mil, that's a reasonable price. Carpenter is the back up for 2.85 mil-that's a high paid back up, I'm fine with that. They paid Garland more than that last year.

2020 gets a little more pricey, but Carpenter CAN be cut, and Ty almost certainly will be.

Exactly.

Brown could easily be our starter at LG over his contract and be a steal compared to the usual big contracts in UFA.

I like his run blocking so far and it seems the mistakes in pass blocking are correctable.

Lindstrom looks good and McGary hopefully makes Ty’s contract effectively a 1 year deal.

Could easily have a dominant OL by midseason.

Now we await word this week on Kaleb.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

I think Lindstrom will be a Pro Bowl player, but we could have drafted defense in 1st round and grabbed Risner (Minchack is raving about him) and McCoy in the 2nd.  Would have likely provided similar value while also adding a high first round defensive player.

Hindsight is 20/20..I know

That's two second round picks. We didn't have that.

Also Risner went before out 2nd round pick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
  • Create New...