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ya_boi_j

Vic with and without a veteran

135 posts in this topic

31 minutes ago, ya_boi_j said:

Freeney didn’t need a veteran which is my point. I can probably name 20 players off the top of my head who actually came in and produced off pure natural talent. Cmon dude you know that just like I know that. Today’s NFL is nothing like the NFL we grew up watching. If Vic actually had the same talent as Freeney or any other pass rusher from the past then he wouldn’t be the topic of discussion. Vic doesn’t have that bite in him. If he had that bite then Quinn wouldn’t have been so public about putting a foot in his *** through spring. Quinn is going to attempt to get it out of him. The rest is up to Vic. Pass rushers with actual talent shouldn’t require that in their fifth year. 

Like I was telling him freeney was a DAWG out the gate. Not every player is that out the gate. 

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5 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Like I was telling him freeney was a DAWG out the gate. Not every player is that out the gate. 

Hall of Famers are funny like that :)

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59 minutes ago, vel said:

And for all of this talk of needing a vet, who did Freeney have? 

Freeney was a dawg bro!! There’s only a handful of dawgs in the entire nfl. That’s a fact. You can learn from a dawg tho and eventually become one OR at least be pretty good. You don’t think Julio benefited from being with Roddy all those years?? And he was already a dawg. Being with Roddy elevated his game. 

 

I was watching John randall’s An nfl life. They were explaining how he became the dawg he is. When he went to the vikes he only talked to and went against the vets. He got his @ss whipped everyday until he finally beat their best lineman. But without a lot of the guidance he was getting from doleman he would’ve probably just been a good player eventually. It’s like testing. Some students don’t test well but good tutoring from a great tester they get better.  No different for players. H3ll you played. You mean to tell there was never EVER anybody you drew confidence and inspiration from. Besides your natural ability? Or a move you stole from upperclassmen you played with?? Don’t act like you didn’t. We all did as athletes. I drew from 2 backs that were ahead of me so by the time I was the starter I ran with more power than i should’ve having 2 power guys in front of me. I asked them them questions and also watched HOW they did things. Just because these are pro’s doesn’t mean they don’t still need a foot up their @ss or some extra inspiration from another player. Maybe having Quinn full time will pull it out. 

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6 minutes ago, athell said:

Hall of Famers are funny like that :)

I feel you. But Not every hall of famer was a dawg out the gate. John Randle was one. And not every dawg out the gate became a hall of famer. Some fizzled out in a couple of years. Brady wasn’t a dawg out the gate. He was just a game manager. He became one tho. Heck Peyton Manning wasn’t a dawg out the gate. He was a pick machine. Then he became the sheriff. Lol. 

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I’m not making excuses for Beasley. He needs to step it up. All I was saying that I KNEW it was a mistake to only keep freeney here just one season when Vic couldn’t learned a WEALTH of knowledge playing 3 years with him. THAT is my argument. Just like Tru and Alf could’ve leaned a wealth of knowledge from Asante had he stayed at LEAST another year. And those are his words. Straight to my ears. He had ty law. He understand learning behind a dawg. And he was the guy that told me coaches don’t teach in the nfl. So who are you more likely to learn from. A FELLOW PLAYER!! That’s sports life. You steal moves and pick brains if great players you’re fortunate to be around. If you’re SMART. Not all players are that smart. To be great you have to study greatness. It takes a few years for some. You can’t cram a whole career of knowledge into a season. 

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2 hours ago, ya_boi_j said:

You say that like Quinn hasn’t made a single bad decision in his Head coaching career. 

No not at all as I know he has.

But when it comes to his defense and how he wants to utilise his players I’ll defer to his expertise over the board hence why I haven’t really piped up much about this till now.

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Another thing nobody is taking in consideration is just the sheer intelligence of certain players. Freeney is one of thisw type players. Not only was he physically great he was a brainy player. Learning from a high iq player makes a difference as well if you have at least a decent iq level. And we know Vic is at least an intelligent player by some of the smart plays he’s made on the field that you KNOW he had to think about to actually pull off. The one thing ppl forget about is how smart some of these top players are. Like michael Irvin says the game is played from the neck up. 

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6 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Another thing nobody is taking in consideration is just the sheer intelligence of certain players. Freeney is one of thisw type players. Not only was he physically great he was a brainy player. Learning from a high iq player makes a difference as well if you have at least a decent iq level. And we know Vic is at least an intelligent player by some of the smart plays he’s made on the field that you KNOW he had to think about to actually pull off. The one thing ppl forget about is how smart some of these top players are. Like michael Irvin says the game is played from the neck up. 

I never played pro ball, but I doubt it’s any different in this aspect from college.... if a great  player takes the time to take a young player under his wing to teach him the ropes, it means more to that player than anything a coach could say or do for  him.

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7 hours ago, TheFatboi said:

Like I was telling him freeney was a DAWG out the gate. Not every player is that out the gate. 

Exactly. Ain’t nobody making no excuses for Vic. For the most part we want to see him prove us wrong. Until then he’s a scrub who up to this point has shown he isn’t worth a crap unless there’s an established vet on the roster. Once he proves that narrative wrong he’ll stop receiving that heat. 

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Not sure how they are classifying vets or if they are only looking at starters, but we've had vet pass rushers every year Beasley has been here. 

2015 - Kroy Biermann, Adrian Clayborn

2016 - Dwight Freeney, Brooks Reed, Adrian Clayborn

2017 - Adrian Clayborn, Brooks Reed

2018 - Brooks Reed, Bruce Irvin, Steven Means

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12 minutes ago, Smiler11 said:

Not sure how they are classifying vets or if they are only looking at starters, but we've had vet pass rushers every year Beasley has been here. 

2015 - Kroy Biermann, Adrian Clayborn

2016 - Dwight Freeney, Brooks Reed, Adrian Clayborn

2017 - Adrian Clayborn, Brooks Reed

2018 - Brooks Reed, Bruce Irvin, Steven Means

I'm almost certain anyone who says he needs a vet is saying an established player in the league. Reed, Clayborn and Means were not established players

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52 minutes ago, ya_boi_j said:

I'm almost certain anyone who says he needs a vet is saying an established player in the league. Reed, Clayborn and Means were not established players

The NFL defines a vet as any player with 4 years in the league. Reed and Clayborn were most certainly established - Reed and Clayborn had 52 and 36 starts respectively prior to signing with us.

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1 hour ago, Smiler11 said:
Not sure how they are classifying vets or if they are only looking at starters, but we've had vet pass rushers every year Beasley has been here. 

2015 - Kroy Biermann, Adrian Clayborn

2016 - Dwight Freeney, Brooks Reed, Adrian Clayborn

2017 - Adrian Clayborn, Brooks Reed

2018 - Brooks Reed, Bruce Irvin, Steven Means

 

28 minutes ago, Smiler11 said:

The NFL defines a vet as any player with 4 years in the league. Reed and Clayborn were most certainly established - Reed and Clayborn had 52 and 36 starts respectively prior to signing with us.

Freeney is the only one who had the cred we were talking about. 

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14 hours ago, GeorgiaBoyz said:

For lack of a better term this is ratarded. A grown azzz man that needs another grown man to produce on the job . Beyond weird & sad . I was high on Vic from draft day to 2017 .. he can go now far as I’m concerned . 

Sn: it’s misspelled on purpose scholars .  

Lost in all the psychobabble is the fact that in his fifth season, Beasley -IS- a veteran.   

Vic's D line coaches have both been men who actually played the game, for several years apiece.  Not to mention the HC who is, well, -supposed- to specialize in coaching the D line.  Experienced help has been there for Beasley.

I believe Vic simply has no real passion for the game.  The guy is not a competitor.   Which would explain why Vic -still- has not learned any pass-rush moves.   Nor, apparently, has Beasley figured out how to watch tape so he can figure out his opponents' tendencies and weaknesses.

Vic is the very definition of a coach killer.  How many times have we heard -that- before?

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10 minutes ago, Vandy said:

 

Freeney is the only one who had the cred we were talking about. 

If you're talking about former elite pass rusher and pro bowler then sure. Freeney is the only one of those Vic has ever been paired with and he had his best season. I knows it's semantics, but that is very different from 'established' or 'vet'. 

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42 minutes ago, Smiler11 said:

The NFL defines a vet as any player with 4 years in the league. Reed and Clayborn were most certainly established - Reed and Clayborn had 52 and 36 starts respectively prior to signing with us.

What the NFL defines and what fans define as established don't go hand in hand. If you want to go by what the NFL thinks, do you. Most fans I know define established as meaning overly productive. Clayborn and Reed do not fit that mold at all

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12 minutes ago, Smiler11 said:

If you're talking about former elite pass rusher and pro bowler then sure. Freeney is the only one of those Vic has ever been paired with and he had his best season. I knows it's semantics, but that is very different from 'established' or 'vet'. 

Semantics for sure, just wanted to clarify where I was coming from. 

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22 minutes ago, egoprime II said:

Lost in all the psychobabble is the fact that in his fifth season, Beasley -IS- a veteran.   

Vic's D line coaches have both been men who actually played the game, for several years apiece.  Not to mention the HC who is, well, -supposed- to specialize in coaching the D line.  Experienced help has been there for Beasley.

I believe Vic simply has no real passion for the game.  The guy is not a competitor.   Which would explain why Vic -still- has not learned any pass-rush moves.   Nor, apparently, has Beasley figured out how to watch tape so he can figure out his opponents' tendencies and weaknesses.

Vic is the very definition of a coach killer.  How many times have we heard -that- before?

If truly a “coach killer”....Why do you think Quinn went all in on VB this year? 

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2 hours ago, Smiler11 said:

Not sure how they are classifying vets or if they are only looking at starters, but we've had vet pass rushers every year Beasley has been here. 

2015 - Kroy Biermann, Adrian Clayborn

2016 - Dwight Freeney, Brooks Reed, Adrian Clayborn

2017 - Adrian Clayborn, Brooks Reed

2018 - Brooks Reed, Bruce Irvin, Steven Means

 I’m certain it’s referencing only Freeney and Irvin

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13 hours ago, ya_boi_j said:

Brooks Reed was a pass rushing linebacker in Houston. I don’t think he is what anyone would consider a veteran pass rusher by any means. The term veteran pass rusher  is used for players who have been productive. Beasley has produced more in 4 years than Reed has in 8 years. Demarcus Ware coming out of retirement would be more of a veteran pass rusher than Brooks Reed ever was. 

Be careful now,, your making to much sense ,,, The Vic hatters will be on your case,,,  Here's my take,, after the draft and FAcy pick ups we will get this off season. I think Vic will have his best year.. this year and be that player everybody thought he should be as a rookie. That just don't happen, especially when the team doesn't have the DL we should have,, I truly believe that TD and Quinn are determined to get everything we need this off season,, And after this season,, if Vic hasn't shown what he can do with the help he's always needed then fire away,, But He hasn't had the help he needs to be the player he can be and will be this year IMO>  The truth will set you free... With the draft I think we will have this year,, And one of the better FAcy off seasons I've seen us have ,,,   {{{{{{ Beasley will be Beastly  this year...}}}}}} Yeah,, I'm his biggest fan ,, I know... He's a great kid.

   Now,, if we don't get those players on the DL we need to cause success for the rest of the team,, you will see the whole D# have a bad year.. I think other wise,, I think the FO is determined to do everything in their power to help the 2019 team be the best team in the History of this franchise ... I know what I just said, but I truly believe that. I see them doing things and making moves they normally don't make. With a very strong draft and with us having 9 picks and the 14th pick in each round... in a very strong draft.. Look out friends and fans.... Gonna be a great season to watch in 2019.

    Yours truly.... Draftnut57

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10 hours ago, TheFatboi said:

I’m not making excuses for Beasley. He needs to step it up. All I was saying that I KNEW it was a mistake to only keep freeney here just one season when Vic couldn’t learned a WEALTH of knowledge playing 3 years with him. THAT is my argument. Just like Tru and Alf could’ve leaned a wealth of knowledge from Asante had he stayed at LEAST another year. And those are his words. Straight to my ears. He had ty law. He understand learning behind a dawg. And he was the guy that told me coaches don’t teach in the nfl. So who are you more likely to learn from. A FELLOW PLAYER!! That’s sports life. You steal moves and pick brains if great players you’re fortunate to be around. If you’re SMART. Not all players are that smart. To be great you have to study greatness. It takes a few years for some. You can’t cram a whole career of knowledge into a season. 

Big Facts!! I’m hoping Vic balls out. Maybe he can link up with Freeney this offseason 

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15 hours ago, ya_boi_j said:

I honestly don’t like professional athletes who need to be motivated to perform but it’s what the Falcons seem to love in some players

 

 

   I dont bump many threads,, but when I do,,, it's a good one...Thank you ,, thank you very much,, proof is in the puddin.

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12 minutes ago, Vandy said:

If truly a “coach killer”....Why do you think Quinn went all in on VB this year? 

Anything I answer with is purely my thoughts on the matter, ok. 

I have heard Quinn described as being a player's coach.  That's good because players want to play for him, for the most part.  But there is a downside, and that is to hold onto players who simply are not getting it done.   This may be why DQ was a really good DC, but is still, apparently, finding his way as a HC.  

It could be that DQ plays the 'good cop' role, but does not have anyone playing the 'bad cop' role?  In Seattle that would have been Pete Caroll.   When Caroll arrived in Seattle, he was constantly churning the roster.  I expected to see some of that with DQ, but it never happened.

I think Belichick approaches things the right way.  His motto appears to be, "Just do your job."  If a player doesn't perform he gets released, no matter how much potential.   I don't think DQ has gotten to that point yet.

Dan Quinn is a good man.  I don't see him getting in the faces of his coaches (see: Kyle Shanahan).   I think DQ may be the sort who takes too much responsibility for the shortcomings of his players, while not holding his players accountable -enough-.

DQ plays music during practices.   He wants to create a certain atmosphere for his players.   I think Quinn needs to turn the music off.   Have a more businesslike approach.  Let players know, Brotherhood only works for players interested in producing.

As for Beasley?  I think Quinn gives him a hand as long as Vic shows effort at -all- times, in -all- things.  Otherwise Quinn needs to take Vic's hand, and lead him to the exit.

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 Vic Beasley simply doesn’t know how to prepare himself as a pass rusher and as a defensive player. This dude went to a pass  rushing summit with the best pass rushers in the league and has Von Miller’s and Khalil Mack’s phone number and still hasn’t developed? I’m sorry but I can’t attribute his lack of development to lack of a veteran presence. To me he is a scarecrow of a defensive player; Has the physical tools but no brain to apply what he’s been taught.  It is not easy being a pass rusher and I don’t think they will ever get it, at least not in Atlanta.

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24 minutes ago, egoprime II said:

Anything I answer with is purely my thoughts on the matter, ok. 

I have heard Quinn described as being a player's coach.  That's good because players want to play for him, for the most part.  But there is a downside, and that is to hold onto players who simply are not getting it done.   This may be why DQ was a really good DC, but is still, apparently, finding his way as a HC.  

It could be that DQ plays the 'good cop' role, but does not have anyone playing the 'bad cop' role?  In Seattle that would have been Pete Caroll.   When Caroll arrived in Seattle, he was constantly churning the roster.  I expected to see some of that with DQ, but it never happened.

I think Belichick approaches things the right way.  His motto appears to be, "Just do your job."  If a player doesn't perform he gets released, no matter how much potential.   I don't think DQ has gotten to that point yet.

Dan Quinn is a good man.  I don't see him getting in the faces of his coaches (see: Kyle Shanahan).   I think DQ may be the sort who takes too much responsibility for the shortcomings of his players, while not holding his players accountable -enough-.

DQ plays music during practices.   He wants to create a certain atmosphere for his players.   I think Quinn needs to turn the music off.   Have a more businesslike approach.  Let players know, Brotherhood only works for players interested in producing.

As for Beasley?  I think Quinn gives him a hand as long as Vic shows effort at -all- times, in -all- things.  Otherwise Quinn needs to take Vic's hand, and lead him to the exit.

Great post.

Let’s hope Beasley balls out and Quinn makes us all look like the amateurish ‘experts’ we truly really are.  

 

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