k-train

Would this make sense? (D. Campbell ---> D. White)

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Let's say LSU LB Devin White is available at #14 and is far and away the BPA remaining.

Would it make sense to take him & have him play SLB... w/ Debo at MLB & Foye at WLB... and use Campbell exclusively as an edge rusher?

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3 minutes ago, KCFalcon22 said:

I’ve been saying move Campbell to DE for the longest 

Going by what I remember of last offseason, I feel like they were possibly intending to use him like that more last year. But then when Debo got hurt & Riley being awful, it forced them to keep Campbell in place for some sort of stability amongst the LBs.

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What’s the infatuation with making Campbell a passrusher? He’s lighter than Beasley, has no pass rush moves whatsoever, can’t bullrush . His best pass rushes were free runs to the QB from the Sam in the base or blitz’s from his natural off ball spot . Neither equate to being a DE . 

Edited by GeorgiaBoyz

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I'm not that big a fan of White. I think he's great moving forward, that's it. He was rarely asked to stop and process anything at LSU. It's going to be a big adjustment for him in the pros I think. I'd rather add a premium DL talent than a LB I'm not sure would even supplant Campbell.

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36 minutes ago, k-train said:

Let's say LSU LB Devin White is available at #14 and is far and away the BPA remaining.

Would it make sense to take him & have him play SLB... w/ Debo at MLB & Foye at WLB... and use Campbell exclusively as an edge rusher?

Not in my opinion. Cambell is SLB. He can rush periodically but he doesnt have the requisite skills to be a full time pass rusher. He is better flowing to the ball and covering backs and TEs. 

If we were to get a Devin White. He would slot in at the WLB and Campbell goes to SLB. 

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11 hours ago, k-train said:

Let's say LSU LB Devin White is available at #14 and is far and away the BPA remaining.

Would it make sense to take him & have him play SLB... w/ Debo at MLB & Foye at WLB... and use Campbell exclusively as an edge rusher?

I’d take him and while I’m not sure that Campbell is an edge guy purely, we rotate LBs a lot. Additionally, why pay Campbell if he wants big bucks when White would upgrade both our run, blitz and I believe our coverage unit. 

One knock is at LSU you don’t see him in coverage a bunch. They blitzed him a lot, but he has range, speed and lateral mobility. I’m projecting but with Debo and in our scheme I think White could be solid in coverage.

And, honestly, Campbell is a solid LB, a good 4th round pick. But playmaker? I say “hold on Batman.” He’s a bit better than a JAG. White would upgrade an important level of our defense 

 

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11 hours ago, vel said:

I'm not that big a fan of White. I think he's great moving forward, that's it. He was rarely asked to stop and process anything at LSU. It's going to be a big adjustment for him in the pros I think. I'd rather add a premium DL talent than a LB I'm not sure would even supplant Campbell.

Well, supposedly the beauty of this Carroll/DQ defense is to let athleticism and instincts work with the system and not have to over process anything. We’ll see.

your opinion, but I see a far superior player to Campbell. That said, a cb an edge, an OL or IDL is higher on my list

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I have not personally evaluated White, but if he is as good as people say he is, you make him MLB, Jones WLB, and Campbell and Foye platoon at SLB with Foye taking the job full time once Campbell is a FA. 

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22 minutes ago, Summerhill said:

I have not personally evaluated White, but if he is as good as people say he is, you make him MLB, Jones WLB, and Campbell and Foye platoon at SLB with Foye taking the job full time once Campbell is a FA. 

There is no world where moving Debo makes any sense. Why not just make White the WLB in this scenario instead of mixing everybody up?

As for the topic... also no. Campbell is a good SAM, he doesn't need to be a DE. If you draft White, you let him compete with Foye for WLB or I guess Campbell if you think he'd be a better SAM, and whoever he beats is the backup. You don't have to complicate things past that. If Campbell is our best DE in any given situation we're kind of in trouble. 

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Whoa! There's way too much reinventing the wheel going on here.  Move Deion Jones?  What? Change Campbell to a lineman?  Huh?

When we get our anchors (Jones, Neal, Allen) back, this defense will be fine with a little more help along the line and maybe a late round or low cost free agent linebacker. 

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1 hour ago, MSalmon said:

Well, supposedly the beauty of this Carroll/DQ defense is to let athleticism and instincts work with the system and not have to over process anything. We’ll see.

your opinion, but I see a far superior player to Campbell. That said, a cb an edge, an OL or IDL is higher on my list

Keyword is instincts. I don't know how much of that White has. Not to question your football intelligence at all, but I think instincts are the hardest thing to see on film if you don't know what you're looking for. It's easy to get caught up in the flash, which White has a lot of when moving forward. But there are times where White looks just like Duke Riley: Lost. As a LB, instincts are what wins before athleticism. I said the same thing when people were drooling over Alec Ogletree and you see the product. I think that's where White lands, a freaky athletic MLB who can be duped consistently by more advanced looks. 

This video is not even a week old and aligns pretty much with what I've seen and been saying about White since January. 

 

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13 hours ago, vel said:

I'm not that big a fan of White. I think he's great moving forward, that's it. He was rarely asked to stop and process anything at LSU. It's going to be a big adjustment for him in the pros I think. I'd rather add a premium DL talent than a LB I'm not sure would even supplant Campbell.

so basically a 2 down guy like Lofton was for us?

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7 minutes ago, papachaz said:

so basically a 2 down guy like Lofton was for us?

No I think he'd be a three down guy because his athleticism is just too much to ignore. I just don't trust his instincts at all and you rarely see him in coverage succeeding like you do when he's been unleashed to run and chase (run defense or blitzing on passing downs). LSU did a good job of hiding his deficiencies, but they are there. 

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Considering the team wanted to draft Leighton Vander Esch last year, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they went Devin White in the 1st round or Devin Bush in the 2nd round.  Either guy would be an upgrade on Campbell (whose contract expires next season) or Oluokun.

Of course I'd personally prefer DL and OL in the first 2 rounds, but I wouldn't put it past the team to draft a LB early at all.

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4 hours ago, vel said:

Keyword is instincts. I don't know how much of that White has. Not to question your football intelligence at all, but I think instincts are the hardest thing to see on film if you don't know what you're looking for. It's easy to get caught up in the flash, which White has a lot of when moving forward. But there are times where White looks just like Duke Riley: Lost. As a LB, instincts are what wins before athleticism. I said the same thing when people were drooling over Alec Ogletree and you see the product. I think that's where White lands, a freaky athletic MLB who can be duped consistently by more advanced looks. 

This video is not even a week old and aligns pretty much with what I've seen and been saying about White since January. 

 

How many games of his have you watched? I ask as you have some potentially valid concerns, but within the system he’s in he’s done well.

my point, right or wrong, is instincts while hard to measure and they do matter depends on how the players fit in a system is as well.

btw I think your logic train is worth pulling the thread on. 

Comparing him to Duke is invalid. Duke looked like s h i t even in college. At no point did his film suggest he was anything more than a 3rd or 4th round athletic prospect that may or may not be anything more than STs and a rotational guy.

white looks like a first rounder. 

@Vandy thoughts? I know thst you’ve watched white a lot as well.

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7 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

How many games of his have you watched? I ask as you have some potentially valid concerns, but within the system he’s in he’s done well.

my point, right or wrong, is instincts while hard to measure and they do matter depends on how the players fit in a system is as well.

btw I think your logic train is worth pulling the thread on. 

Comparing him to Duke is invalid. Duke looked like s h i t even in college. At no point did his film suggest he was anything more than a 3rd or 4th round athletic prospect that may or may not be anything more than STs and a rotational guy.

white looks like a first rounder. 

@Vandy thoughts? I know thst you’ve watched white a lot as well.

I've watched enough to not want to watch anymore lol. That's why I give LSU credit. They hid his deficiencies very well. He's not good moving backwards. I didn't know until watching that video that he was a RB recruited to LSU, which makes everything about his lack of instincts make sense. He's not a born and bred LB, he's a created LB. So of course his instincts will lag. It's easy to say "well just put him in the right system". That totally ignores he's facing NFL offenses going forward. If he's miss reading his keys, it doesn't matter the system he's playing in. You can't just blitz him or send him loose. Good offenses will see that on film and exploit it very quickly. They'll figure out what he likes to chase and give him the cheese all game every game. 

And it's not a direct comparison, it's the lack of instincts comparison. Hence why I said "But there are times where White looks just like Duke Riley: Lost." Duke's lack of instincts had him out of position repeatedly. They thought they could circumvent that by having him in a simple scheme, but that doesn't solve for the complexity of the offenses he's seeing weekly. Add on top of his poor tackling and you got a very ugly product very fast. 

I like White. He's a fun guy to watch for highlights. But in the end, he's got the same flaws as Duke: poor tackling and subpar instincts. Maybe he can overcome them and be great. I don't know. Like Brett said in the video, put him with Fangio and he's probably a HOF caliber guy. If not, he's probably an Alec Ogletree LB, another guy I had the exact same reservations about that this place loved to pieces. Ogletree was a converted safety who was crazy athletic but had subpar instincts and it never improved in the NFL. 

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1 minute ago, vel said:

I've watched enough to not want to watch anymore lol. That's why I give LSU credit. They hid his deficiencies very well. He's not good moving backwards. I didn't know until watching that video that he was a RB recruited to LSU, which makes everything about his lack of instincts make sense. He's not a born and bred LB, he's a created LB. So of course his instincts will lag. It's easy to say "well just put him in the right system". That totally ignores he's facing NFL offenses going forward. If he's miss reading his keys, it doesn't matter the system he's playing in. You can't just blitz him or send him loose. Good offenses will see that on film and exploit it very quickly. They'll figure out what he likes to chase and give him the cheese all game every game. 

And it's not a direct comparison, it's the lack of instincts comparison. Hence why I said "But there are times where White looks just like Duke Riley: Lost." Duke's lack of instincts had him out of position repeatedly. They thought they could circumvent that by having him in a simple scheme, but that doesn't solve for the complexity of the offenses he's seeing weekly. Add on top of his poor tackling and you got a very ugly product very fast. 

I like White. He's a fun guy to watch for highlights. But in the end, he's got the same flaws as Duke: poor tackling and subpar instincts. Maybe he can overcome them and be great. I don't know. Like Brett said in the video, put him with Fangio and he's probably a HOF caliber guy. If not, he's probably an Alec Ogletree LB, another guy I had the exact same reservations about that this place loved to pieces. Ogletree was a converted safety who was crazy athletic but had subpar instincts and it never improved in the NFL. 

Good post on a great discussion. I’ll read in detail and if cool with you we’ll resume this discussion!

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3 hours ago, MSalmon said:

How many games of his have you watched? I ask as you have some potentially valid concerns, but within the system he’s in he’s done well.

my point, right or wrong, is instincts while hard to measure and they do matter depends on how the players fit in a system is as well.

btw I think your logic train is worth pulling the thread on. 

Comparing him to Duke is invalid. Duke looked like s h i t even in college. At no point did his film suggest he was anything more than a 3rd or 4th round athletic prospect that may or may not be anything more than STs and a rotational guy.

white looks like a first rounder. 

@Vandy thoughts? I know thst you’ve watched white a lot as well.

Not sure what our friend @vel is seeing, I think White's instincts are superb, not even in same zip code with Duke Riley. 

He should be a Top 15 pick. 

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7 hours ago, virginiafalcon said:

Considering the team wanted to draft Leighton Vander Esch last year, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they went Devin White in the 1st round or Devin Bush in the 2nd round.  Either guy would be an upgrade on Campbell (whose contract expires next season) or Oluokun.

Of course I'd personally prefer DL and OL in the first 2 rounds, but I wouldn't put it past the team to draft a LB early at all.

Id pump the brakes on both being better than Dre. Vander Esch is a stud and is learning from another in S. Lee but also playing next to a freak in J. Smith. 

Dre as a 4th rounder is better value but I cant say he is better than Vander Esch. That said....the kid isn't leaps and bounds better than Dre.

There arent too many LBs who are 6'4 with good speed, covers backs and TEs, sure tacklers and have a lil spice as a situational pass rusher. Dre does that. Quietly one of best picks we have made. 

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12 hours ago, Vandy said:

Not sure what our friend @vel is seeing, I think White's instincts are superb, not even in same zip code with Duke Riley. 

He should be a Top 15 pick. 

I do too. But I needed extra eyes. Was he snake bit by the Duke Riley false love?

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1 hour ago, MSalmon said:

I do too. But I needed extra eyes. Was he snake bit by the Duke Riley false love?

The thing is, Duke was never that guy. Debo was Kwon's Backup most of his career. Duke rode their backs.

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15 hours ago, Vandy said:

Not sure what our friend @vel is seeing, I think White's instincts are superb, not even in same zip code with Duke Riley. 

He should be a Top 15 pick. 

Watch that video I posted. Literally gives you examples of what I'm talking about. Multiple scouting reports say the same. It's clear as day on film. He can be duped and isn't used in coverage a lot, they sent him on blitzes instead. 

When he gets it right, boy is it pretty. But when he gets it wrong, it's very wrong and ugly. And that happens on film more than I care to see. He's a freak athlete so that makes up for some of his incorrect reads at the college level. But will it at the pros? That's my biggest concern and the mental part of the game is not a part I like projecting in prospects. I'll take the less athletic guy who can process like a computer over the freak athlete who may not ever get the processing down. It's why Oluokon overtook Duke so quickly. Duke can't process a 2+2 math problem but was able to use some decent athleticism at times to overcome it at LSU. Foye can process much quicker than him and is more athletic and it translated. Again, not comparing White to either of those guys, just giving examples of my concern with White. 

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