mashburn*Fibonacci

fan experience since the new stadium took over...... my outlook on the changes

68 posts in this topic

54 minutes ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

They could have done a number of things but they chose to do what they did.

Those that chose the path of PSL/STH made a choice based upon the options available to them.

Having done so, it was your/their decision.  If circumstances have changed per either party, you’re then free to exercise the next option at your disposal.

I’m sure that all the legal rules & regulations were written into the transaction which probably included the right for them to make changes etc.

It’s free enterprise.

 

Let me clarify our options. You make it sound like we knew we would get $hittttt on.  

 

No one told us they would stop doing yearbooks

No one told us they stop doing the playbook

No one told us they stop dropping shirts from the rafters

No one told us they stop doing door giveaways

No one told us the halls were going to be tight and hard to leave at the end if the game

No one told us they shut the roof 90% of the time. 

No one told us he look at falcon psl owners as the step child.  .....and he look at soccer fans (who don't have to but a psl) as his beloved child.  

No one told home side would be seen as the visitor suffe (in fact their model even had the falcon logo correct) 

 

I'm not trying to be prick here.  But don't assume we knew this was going to turn into it like this.  

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6 minutes ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

Dude the entire point is that you can choose to be for or against it.  Period!

It’s as simple as that. 

Fair or unfair, is irrelevant.  If you feel it’s unfair, then bit em where it hurts & refrain from giving them your business.

Complaining is your right but it’s not very effective.  I still see no victims except voluntary ones.

If you want to look at it in simple minded black and white terms, that’s your prerogative.  Economically, MBS has been great for Blank.  In 2015 (two years prior to MBS opening), the Falcons were valued at $1.67B.  3 years later that valuation had jumped by $1B.  So my, yours, or anyone’s piddly hundreds or even thousands isn’t hurting Blank or his ‘sports business empire’.  By all accounts, he’s been able to cash in.  Not that I had been attending games in recent years prior to the Dome closing, but to my point before...game day experience for the Falcons at least is dimished.  That shows up whether I spend money or not.

And I don’t think he set out to swindle anyone...just that the experience he built at MBS is bloated and ego-driven constructed in large part to ‘one-up’ the previous stadiums that had been built.  To do so, the PSL structure was instituted, a model that had become an increasingly negative investment for the average fan.  This tide started to turn close to 10 years ago, perhaps coinciding with the economic downturn of 2008...and if we’re calling a spade a spade, it wasn’t as if Falcons PSL’s were flying off the shelves.  In an 18 month period (11/2015 - 5/2017) they sold but $90M in PSL’s, a period that included a SB appearance.

So if are you painting a business scenario where people stop being fans because they look at the dimished game day experience and say - it used to be good, but not for me anymore, well that’s an interesting customer experience and business model you propose there.  It actually might be one being followed by the NFL in more ways than one. I guess that’s what happens when you turn 70...you start thinking short term.

As a businessman - great move.  As a curator of an NFL franchises gameday experience...not so much.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, mashburn*Fibonacci said:

So if i quit.  I stay pay for my psl. What exactly you want me to grasp?

Grasp that you have the power. You can do whatever you wish.  Or you can complain about it.  Did you or did you not choose to sign up initially?  Are you or are you not going to choose to get out of your current obligation.

Are you telling us that you are a victim or not?  Personally I don’t care.  It all seems very clear to me.  If you’d like to be miserable over your circumstances then hav at it.  You don’t have to grasp anything you don’t want to.  The choices are not mine to make.  I’m on the outside looking in.  

 

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14 minutes ago, AndrewsFrancisBart said:

MBS is great.  Is it perfect?  No, but no stadium is.  You appear to be dealing with buyer's remorse.

Also, easy on the revisionist history.  The sound system in the GA Dome was horrendous - literally the worst I've ever heard in a large stadium.

 

5 minutes ago, EJmusic said:

Yo the stadium is awesome! Stop all this crying. 

What's so great? You like making a car payment and the passenger gets to enjoy the car more (mls fan who didn't have to buy a psl). 

You like all what they did at the dome for falcon fans, they quit.  (Playbook, yearbook, shirts, door prizes. )

Ohhhhh you like the dollar hotdogs and stuff. However that increased their yearly revenue.  

Maybe you like the lie the stadium roof would be open majority of the year unless a storm was coming (not rain, but a storm). 

You like sitting on the sidelines in 200 or 300 and having to go through a skinny hall with 70,000 fans trying to leave and it take you 45 minutes.  Maybe more.  

You like going to see a musician and it sound horrible.  And the musician call you out during the superbowl saying your system is a joke and Garth Brooks even told you from the start.  

I could go on and on.  But you can see the post i made to hashbrown. We went in thinking everything would continue from the dome at the very least.  Went in thinking "hey we buy psl. not soccer fans, they want to do more for us, right? ". But nope nope nope. PSL owners were $hit on horribly.  

 

...... you have to understand people dropped $6,000 - $100,000+++ on PSL. And they got way way less then when they were just STH at the dome??? Oh and being PSL owners get the right to buy season tickets.  So that's more craziness.  

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2 minutes ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

Grasp that you have the power. You can do whatever you wish.  Or you can complain about it.  Did you or did you not choose to sign up initially?  Are you or are you not going to choose to get out of your current obligation.

Are you telling us that you are a victim or not?  Personally I don’t care.  It all seems very clear to me.  If you’d like to be miserable over your circumstances then hav at it.  You don’t have to grasp anything you don’t want to.  The choices are not mine to make.  I’m on the outside looking in.  

 

You make it sound like getting out of a contract is easy.  

I get it. I rather peple do something instead of complain. However this is a contract. Lawyer cost (which a lawyer is not going to want to go after a 200 page or more document that was signed.  Unless you want to pay big and II'm a no contingency.). Heck a lawyer is very very cautious to going after a billionaire owner that you signed a contract with.  

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3 minutes ago, mashburn*Fibonacci said:

 

What's so great? You like making a car payment and the passenger gets to enjoy the car more (mls fan who didn't have to buy a psl). 

You like all what they did at the dome for falcon fans, they quit.  (Playbook, yearbook, shirts, door prizes. )

Ohhhhh you like the dollar hotdogs and stuff. However that increased their yearly revenue.  

Maybe you like the lie the stadium roof would be open majority of the year unless a storm was coming (not rain, but a storm). 

You like sitting on the sidelines in 200 or 300 and having to go through a skinny hall with 70,000 fans trying to leave and it take you 45 minutes.  Maybe more.  

You like going to see a musician and it sound horrible.  And the musician call you out during the superbowl saying your system is a joke and Garth Brooks even told you from the start.  

I could go on and on.  But you can see the post i made to hashbrown. We went in thinking everything would continue from the dome at the very least.  Went in thinking "hey we buy psl. not soccer fans, they want to do more for us, right? ". But nope nope nope. PSL owners were $hit on horribly.  

 

...... you have to understand people dropped $6,000 - $100,000+++ on PSL. And they got way way less then when they were just STH at the dome??? Oh and being PSL owners get the right to buy season tickets.  So that's more craziness.  

Well the roof has been open when I went :shrug:. It's a spectacle. It's designed to be as such. You should've done research on PSLs before you bought. That's my fault you didn't. I tailgate before games so cheap drinks and food don't mean **** to me as I am drunk and full by the time I even step foot into the stadium. You really are whining to the wrong folks. What was this thread supposed to accomplish besides catch your tears?

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20 minutes ago, mashburn*Fibonacci said:

Let me clarify our options. You make it sound like we knew we would get $hittttt on.  

 

No one told us they would stop doing yearbooks

No one told us they stop doing the playbook

No one told us they stop dropping shirts from the rafters

No one told us they stop doing door giveaways

No one told us the halls were going to be tight and hard to leave at the end if the game

No one told us they shut the roof 90% of the time. 

No one told us he look at falcon psl owners as the step child.  .....and he look at soccer fans (who don't have to but a psl) as his beloved child.  

No one told home side would be seen as the visitor suffe (in fact their model even had the falcon logo correct) 

 

I'm not trying to be prick here.  But don't assume we knew this was going to turn into it like this.  

Ok fine Mash.  I’m sorry you are not pleased with how things played out.  I get that you’re frustrated.  I don’t have all the answers either.  Do you think AB understands your concerns or is he even aware that some folks may be disturbed over what you’ve listed above? Do you have any proof that he’s done these things to screw over fans to his own profit?  He’s a brilliant man & he understands that screwing people over isn’t profitable for him in the long run I would imagine.  Many of the things you mentioned above don’t seem to to be egregious. Nor do they seem to cost that much to conduct outside of structural changes.  Perhaps you can form a group of people that can suggest to AB what the fans might prefer to keep, change or add. Sort of like a fan based marketing team.

Maybe I was taking your concern the wrong way. Either way, try to make positive change & if you cannot, do the best you can until you can get out of it. 

I don’t think that Mister Blank is actually trying to get over on his customer base with malicious intent here.  I would personally like to see you happy buddy.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, mashburn*Fibonacci said:

You make it sound like getting out of a contract is easy.  

I get it. I rather peple do something instead of complain. However this is a contract. Lawyer cost (which a lawyer is not going to want to go after a 200 page or more document that was signed.  Unless you want to pay big and II'm a no contingency.). Heck a lawyer is very very cautious to going after a billionaire owner that you signed a contract with.  

I know.  You’re preaching to the preacher. I’ve been in touch spots like this too.

All those things you mentioned seem like small things that make your expert more enjoyable.  

Clearly the main thing is the team & the games of course. Maybe there is a way for you to reach out to AB with your concerns.  I bet AB doesn’t even realize there is displeasure with some fans over that list of items you wrote.  He should know about it.

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1 hour ago, EJmusic said:

Well the roof has been open when I went :shrug:. It's a spectacle. It's designed to be as such. You should've done research on PSLs before you bought. That's my fault you didn't. I tailgate before games so cheap drinks and food don't mean **** to me as I am drunk and full by the time I even step foot into the stadium. You really are whining to the wrong folks. What was this thread supposed to accomplish besides catch your tears?

You drunk before you go in.  That explains a lot. Because last year it was only open 1 tine. This year 3 times.  .....and only a few times for soccer games. 

Edited by mashburn*Fibonacci

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53 minutes ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

I know.  You’re preaching to the preacher. I’ve been in touch spots like this too.

All those things you mentioned seem like small things that make your expert more enjoyable.  

Clearly the main thing is the team & the games of course. Maybe there is a way for you to reach out to AB with your concerns.  I bet AB doesn’t even realize there is displeasure with some fans over that list of items you wrote.  He should know about it.

Hate to say it. But i would be shocked if he didn't know.  I have not met a psl owner at the stadium whos been happy. I've met people who enjoyed and loved it, but it was the ones who comes to only a couple games a year or they sell their tickets.  

I remember the openor for psl owners.  You had people complaining about the view. and they head to move their seats.  And when I went to my seat I noticed the logo upside down.  I told kne of the workers and they said people were complaining all day about it and they can't change it because the camera.  

 

With me going to training camp.  I will talk to Arthur when he walks out at rare times. Even if he keeps walking, at least then I know he heard me.  

 

....... by the way i know some are reading like I'm ticked. But it's more so I'm disappointed. The way the reps made it out to selling us and what we got was 2 totally different things.  .....and i mean numerous of us were told season tickets wouldn't go up for 3 years. and the first year it went up and they said "now it stays like that for 3 years". 

Contracts suck. Because reps can lie their a$$ off. 

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1 hour ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

If you want to look at it in simple minded black and white terms, that’s your prerogative.  Economically, MBS has been great for Blank.  In 2015 (two years prior to MBS opening), the Falcons were valued at $1.67B.  3 years later that valuation had jumped by $1B.  So my, yours, or anyone’s piddly hundreds or even thousands isn’t hurting Blank or his ‘sports business empire’.  By all accounts, he’s been able to cash in.  Not that I had been attending games in recent years prior to the Dome closing, but to my point before...game day experience for the Falcons at least is dimished.  That shows up whether I spend money or not.

And I don’t think he set out to swindle anyone...just that the experience he built at MBS is bloated and ego-driven constructed in large part to ‘one-up’ the previous stadiums that had been built.  To do so, the PSL structure was instituted, a model that had become an increasingly negative investment for the average fan.  This tide started to turn close to 10 years ago, perhaps coinciding with the economic downturn of 2008...and if we’re calling a spade a spade, it wasn’t as if Falcons PSL’s were flying off the shelves.  In an 18 month period (11/2015 - 5/2017) they sold but $90M in PSL’s, a period that included a SB appearance.

So if are you painting a business scenario where people stop being fans because they look at the dimished game day experience and say - it used to be good, but not for me anymore, well that’s an interesting customer experience and business model you propose there.  It actually might be one being followed by the NFL in more ways than one. I guess that’s what happens when you turn 70...you start thinking short term.

As a businessman - great move.  As a curator of an NFL franchises gameday experience...not so much.

 

 

I agree he didn’t set out to swindle anyone.  Clearly it’s been a tremendous success.  He hasn’t cashed in because he hasn’t sold it but the fact that it’s increased in value is a good thing compared to the alternative I suppose. 

Soon, if more people feel as you do, the laws of economics will catch up & people will stop attending and profits will begin to decline.  That is if the product sucks as badly as you’re telling me.  

I’ve read an awful lot of envious & ill willed statements made either directly or indirectly toward AB so far.  And I don’t mean envy in the good sense.  

Bloated & ego driven are terms that reveal your disdain & that envy I alluded to.  I suppose that’s not a healthy way to view him & the product he made possible for the city of Atlanta.  My goodness, it doesn’t seem unreasonable to think the guy wanted to make the city proud. Who’d have thunk he’s an evil 70 year old man who really only wanted to get rich at the expense of his fellow citizens.

Using the people of Atlanta for his short term gain before he passes away only leaving behind a legacy of greed & selfishness.  Amazing.

I guess I didn’t realize just how much MBS sucks & how awful it must be attending games.  I know there are a couple of unhappy campers right here on our boards.  Surely AB has been informed if the game day experience has diminished to such new lows.  

If AB doesn’t rectify the situation then I guess he’ll soon experience a heavy decline in sales.  Maybe you guys have a great point.  I don’t live there anymore so I only have your words for it.  Maybe there are lots of other Atlantans who feel the same way. 

I don’t know if your concerns are reaching the proper channels that would take your concerns under advisement.  I am happy to see that the overall project has been successful. But if it’s true that the game day experience sucks, there is no way it will continue to have success in the future.  I truly don’t want to see the average fan have anything less than an awesome game day experience.  

In my heart I truly feel that that also is AB’s heartfelt intention as well.  

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19 minutes ago, mashburn*Fibonacci said:

Hate to say it. But i would be shocked if he didn't know.  I have not met a psl owner at the stadium whos been happy. I've met people who enjoyed and loved it, but it was the ones who comes to only a couple games a year or they sell their tickets.  

I remember the openor for psl owners.  You had people complaining about the view. and they head to move their seats.  And when I went to my seat I noticed the logo upside down.  I told kne of the workers and they said people were complaining all day about it and they can't change it because the camera.  

 

With me going to training camp.  I will talk to Arthur when he walks out at rare times. Even if he keeps walking, at least then I know he heard me.  

 

....... by the way i know some are reading like I'm ticked. But it's more so I'm disappointed. The way the reps made it out to selling us and what we got was 2 totally different things.  .....and i mean numerous of us were told season tickets wouldn't go up for 3 years. and the first year it went up and they said "now it stays like that for 3 years". 

Contracts suck. Because reps can lie their a$$ off. 

I sincerely hope that you & others can reach AB & help him understand your feelings.  I think he has a passion for the fans & the product he’s presenting.  

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6 hours ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

I sincerely hope that you & others can reach AB & help him understand your feelings.  I think he has a passion for the fans & the product he’s presenting.  

Dear 40 year season ticket holder. As you have heard we are moving into our new stadium MBS.  We have appreciated your dedicated support during all these many seasons. If you would like to keep your seats in the new stadium that you have had during all of these years we need your help.

We will need 40k as a fee just to hold your seat and in addition the ticket cost for each consecutive season. Otherwise you may need to move up to the nose bleed seats for only a 500.00 fee plus the season ticket cost. :lol:

Thanks again for your valued support. 

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7 hours ago, mashburn*Fibonacci said:

You drunk before you go in.  That explains a lot. Because last year it was only open 1 tine. This year 3 times.  .....and only a few times for soccer games. 

You never tailgated man? If you aren't drunk after a tailgate you aren't doing it right actually this past year this was the first tailgate me and my Dad did together (he leaves in Florida and I live in PA) and I got him ****** up lol. He wasn't ready. 

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7 hours ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

I agree he didn’t set out to swindle anyone.  Clearly it’s been a tremendous success.  He hasn’t cashed in because he hasn’t sold it but the fact that it’s increased in value is a good thing compared to the alternative I suppose. 

Soon, if more people feel as you do, the laws of economics will catch up & people will stop attending and profits will begin to decline.  That is if the product sucks as badly as you’re telling me.  

I’ve read an awful lot of envious & ill willed statements made either directly or indirectly toward AB so far.  And I don’t mean envy in the good sense.  

Bloated & ego driven are terms that reveal your disdain & that envy I alluded to.  I suppose that’s not a healthy way to view him & the product he made possible for the city of Atlanta.  My goodness, it doesn’t seem unreasonable to think the guy wanted to make the city proud. Who’d have thunk he’s an evil 70 year old man who really only wanted to get rich at the expense of his fellow citizens.

Using the people of Atlanta for his short term gain before he passes away only leaving behind a legacy of greed & selfishness.  Amazing.

I guess I didn’t realize just how much MBS sucks & how awful it must be attending games.  I know there are a couple of unhappy campers right here on our boards.  Surely AB has been informed if the game day experience has diminished to such new lows.  

If AB doesn’t rectify the situation then I guess he’ll soon experience a heavy decline in sales.  Maybe you guys have a great point.  I don’t live there anymore so I only have your words for it.  Maybe there are lots of other Atlantans who feel the same way. 

I don’t know if your concerns are reaching the proper channels that would take your concerns under advisement.  I am happy to see that the overall project has been successful. But if it’s true that the game day experience sucks, there is no way it will continue to have success in the future.  I truly don’t want to see the average fan have anything less than an awesome game day experience.  

In my heart I truly feel that that also is AB’s heartfelt intention as well.  

Like I said above...as if on queue...

Falcons actual attendance fell way short of announced attendance...

My observations aren’t rooted in envy, rather knowing that the path AB took was predictable if he went this route like I made mention 9 years ago.

An ‘architectural marvel’ retractable roof?  A ‘halo board’?  The largest bird statue in the world?

The thing about NFL economics is that game day ticket sales represent a smaller slice of the revenue equation.  Let’s assume an average of $150 per ticket.  Plus you have limited inventory in seats; let’s say 75,000.  That means $90M in revenue/year.  On TV contracts alone, each owner makes in excess of $250M/year.  Bottom line - as ticket sales are an increasingly irrelevant piece of the short term revenue pie, focus on the value of the asset.

Since you can’t increase inventory...what do you do?  You trinket the place up and market to a different audience - look at this sports palace!  Blank secures his $250M in PSL funds (plus $200M in tax revenue)...you mandate a season ticket only ticket policy and voila, two years later you have the link above.

See...a lot more nuanced than the blunt assessment you laid out.

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Mash what exactly do you want?

  1. A T-Shirt, program, hat and open roof?
  2. A refund?
  3. A Media Specialist job?

I'm thinkin it's the Media Specialist job they snubbed you on. You aint been the same since bro. Let it go.

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14 minutes ago, AvidFalconFan said:

Dear 40 year season ticket holder. As you have heard we are moving into our new stadium MBS.  We have appreciated your dedicated support during all these many seasons. If you would like to keep your seats in the new stadium that you have had during all of these years we need your help.

We will need 40k as a fee just to hold your seat and in addition the ticket cost for each consecutive season. Otherwise you may need to move up to the nose bleed seats for only a 500.00 fee plus the season ticket cost. :lol:

Thanks again for your valued support. 

It’s obviously a new age of stadiums & the way they’re funded.  I feel for ya man.

Doesn’t mean Blank hates all the old fans of course.  I don’t like that style of funding myself & I dam sure wouldn’t find myself in a position to be able to participate in that capacity either.  

 

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14 hours ago, vanhino said:

I haven't been to MBS yet and was planning on going to a Falcons game this year. After reading this info, maybe I won't go after all.:huh:

Don't listen to him. It's one mans opinion. The stadium is amazing and everyone should go see it at least once. 

 

The PSL thing is a joke IMO. To me it just looked like a terrible financial decision that wasn't even dressed up like a benefit. If I was a wealthy man I'd pay it but one reason I like to think I'm not a broke man is because I don't pay people thousands of dollars for the privilege of paying them thousands of dollars.

Buy a single game ticket off stubhub and go to the stadium early and go look at everything and make an opinion for yourself. It's literally a sports palace and you don't have to spend $150 to eat there and have no wifi or cell signal. 

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9 hours ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

I know.  You’re preaching to the preacher. I’ve been in touch spots like this too.

All those things you mentioned seem like small things that make your expert more enjoyable.  

Clearly the main thing is the team & the games of course. Maybe there is a way for you to reach out to AB with your concerns.  I bet AB doesn’t even realize there is displeasure with some fans over that list of items you wrote.  He should know about it.

I think he realizes...

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The fire hazard issue is legit. The hallways in the S/SE area are a serious bottleneck. God help us if there's ever a need for a rapid evacuation. People will be trampled. This entire problem would be solved with a SW corner gate.

Its so bad we are relocating from the west to east end of the stadium. Took us 30-45 minutes to get out of MBS after a game, compared to 10 minutes at the Dome.

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mash I remember telling you on a topic here that I hated the new stadium and you talked it up. now you hate it. I have never been a fan of it, seemed more like a mall than a stadium. I have been to games there and to the practice they had last yr and the only great thing I can say about the stadium is food prices. Now it might be awesome as a soccer stadium, I do not know but I miss the dome a heck of a lot, and ps I hate that train noise. Here is the thread I was talking about

 

 

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2 hours ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

that happens at every stadium to an extent but it is a huge problem for us. It doesnt help that the seats are painted red and stick out like a sore thumb when empty. when I went the place seemed full, just everyone shopping at one of the many mall spots lol. you know though my dad got vip tickets to a braves game last yr for fathers day and it was much the same. we watched the game from inside a bar at the stadium, in our defense though we were behind home plate with no shade and 100 degree weather.

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1 hour ago, HASHBROWN3 said:

:( sad:shrug:

Capitalism at work...

I would assume Blank had already pocketed PSL and season ticket revenue so this doesn't hit him at all, at least in the near term - but when you're 77 in September, what else is there?  Because he built a multi-purpose facility and receives all revenue from the stadium despite its status as a public venue...now the Falcons are a much smaller fraction of the properties he can leverage to make money.  He's diversified his financial interests away from the notorious fickleness of the Atlanta sports fan.  Kudos to him on this front...he knew his customer.  And recognizing the gold mine being in effect the landlord of MB Stadium could yield, set out to secure a different customer.  The rich ones. 

When Blank took over the Falcons, he immediately took it upon himself to fix their #1 problem.  Attendance.  Fan friendly pricing was put into effect and you even got to select your new season ticket seats.

As attendance dwindles because the loyal fan starts to feel the brunt of the bad deal they made with Uncle Arthur...I suspect we won't see the same level of concern about those empty seats...aside from $2 hot dogs.

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