ChickenBiscuit

Robert Kraft potentially being charged in connection with Prostitution Ring.

167 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Falconsfan567 said:

How would legalizing prostitution stop women from being forced to do it? How does that make any sense? That is like saying that if we legalize hardcore drugs then people will stop using.

Not a valid comparison. Legalizing hardcore drugs (which is something I don't approve of btw) would greatly reduce the power of the black market, and hinder illegal sellers ability to make a profit. A black market will always exist for commodities like drugs/sex work, but legalization always greatly reduces those black markets.

Black markets for children, for instance, would still exist. But if brothels were regulated, the women would have options in terms of getting away. If men knew they could go to a brothel in which the sex workers were tested for STDs and they could potentially sue if infected, it would reduce the appeal of going to some back alley whore house. Also, if men know that they're in a legal business -- with security -- then they'll be less likely to commit sexual assault. It would also help in the prevention of spreading of STDs.

Legalization leads to fewer STDs and fewer cases of sexual assault.source:  http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/decriminalizing-prostitution-linked-to-fewer-stds-and-rapes

Again,the black market will always exist. But legalizing it WOULD give more options to women, and greatly reduce the appeal of the illegal market. Then the feds could focus more of their efforts on child sex trafficking, which is something we could all agree is a HUGE problem.

And legalization/decriminalization does not magically fix every issue with sex trafficking, nor does it completely rid the country of sexual assault, but imo, it's a step in the right direction. 

Edited by ChickenBiscuit

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1 hour ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

Are there statistics for this? How do we measure the amount of sex trafficked prostitutes vs self-employed sex workers? 

And if it is true that most of them are forced, wouldn't the solution to that issue be legalizing/regulating it ala New Zealand or Amsterdam?

Depends on how broadly one defines “forced”, I guess. 

Seriously doubt  you or anyone else in here knows any emotionally happy/healthy current or retired prostitutes in New Zealand and/or  Amsterdam. Porn industry is legal, despite that Industry’s marketing message of lies, how many emotionally happy/healthy current or ex-porn stars are truly out there? 

Prostitution is and always has been a degrading business for women. Legalizing it won’t change a thing, other than make it worse, IMO.

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9 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Depends on how broadly one defines “forced”, I guess. 

Seriously doubt  you or anyone else in here knows any emotionally happy/healthy current or retired prostitutes in New Zealand and/or  Amsterdam. Porn industry is legal, despite that Industry’s marketing message of lies, how many emotionally happy/healthy current or ex-porn stars are truly out there? 

Prostitution is and always has been a degrading business for women. Legalizing it won’t change a thing, other than make it worse, IMO.

Just gonna post this again in case you missed it: Legalization leads to fewer STDs and fewer cases of sexual assault.source:  http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/decriminalizing-prostitution-linked-to-fewer-stds-and-rapes

and this https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/decreasing-human-trafficking-through-sex-work-decriminalization/2017-01

as well as this https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-women-prostitution/legalizing-prostitution-lowers-violence-and-disease-report-says-idUSKBN1OA28N

and this https://www.bmj.com/content/361/bmj.k2609

I agree with you in your assessment that it is a degrading business, but only if the presupposition is that they're forced to. If they willingly do it (the amount of willing vs unwilling remains difficult to measure) then how "degrading" is just up to opinion. However, I disagree with you that legalizing it won't change anything. 

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2 minutes ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

Just gonna post this again in case you missed it: Legalization leads to fewer STDs and fewer cases of sexual assault.source:  http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/decriminalizing-prostitution-linked-to-fewer-stds-and-rapes

and this https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/decreasing-human-trafficking-through-sex-work-decriminalization/2017-01

as well as this https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-women-prostitution/legalizing-prostitution-lowers-violence-and-disease-report-says-idUSKBN1OA28N

and this https://www.bmj.com/content/361/bmj.k2609

I agree with you in your assessment that it is a degrading business, but only if the presupposition is that they're forced to. If they willingly do it (the amount of willing vs unwilling remains difficult to measure) then how "degrading" is just up to opinion. However, I disagree with you that legalizing it won't change anything. 

Would you be okay with your daughter doing it? 

I’ll leave it there. 

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Just now, Vandy said:

Would you be okay with your daughter doing it? 

I’ll leave it there. 

If your daughter went into sex work, would you rather her be pimped out by some dude in a back alley or do it in a regulated, safe and legal brothel?

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1 hour ago, Vandy said:

Depends on how broadly one defines “forced”, I guess. 

Seriously doubt  you or anyone else in here knows any emotionally happy/healthy current or retired prostitutes in New Zealand and/or  Amsterdam. Porn industry is legal, despite that Industry’s marketing message of lies, how many emotionally happy/healthy current or ex-porn stars are truly out there? 

Prostitution is and always has been a degrading business for women. Legalizing it won’t change a thing, other than make it worse, IMO.

I agree!! I've never seen an ex-porn star come out and say that she enjoyed her time in the business. But I've heard and read several accounts where ex-porn stars said that they have an endless list of regrets about their time in the business and that it's really pure heIl on earth. These women are nothing more than a piece of meat with absolutely no rights.

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I'll also add another point, these young teenage girls that get into it at 18/19 years old are grossly lied to and mislead about the porn business. All they're shown at the beginning is the insane amounts of money they can make and how they can become icons for millions of guys to drool all over them and these girls eat it up. Many of them have such poor self esteem so it hits them right in their feels to think about millions of guys getting their rocks off looking at them and fantasizing about being with them. If they were shown the true side of the business prior to signing these contracts to enter into it I truly wonder how many would still go through with it?

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On 2/23/2019 at 0:15 AM, ChickenBiscuit said:

 

Where else is a 77 year old widow going to get sex ?  It's no different that being a sugar daddy to a young chick who is liable to sue you eventually.  It's a victimless crime, unless Kraft was part of the alleged sex  slave trade. Otherwise it's a misdemeanor, subject to a fine, and what ever the NFL decides to do. 

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5 minutes ago, HMFIC said:

Where else is a 77 year old widow going to get sex ?  It's no different that being a sugar daddy to a young chick who is liable to sue you eventually.  It's a victimless crime, unless Kraft was part of the alleged sex  slave trade. Otherwise it's a misdemeanor, subject to a fine, and what ever the NFL decides to do. 

The **** is this garbage

14 hours ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

If your daughter went into sex work, would you rather her be pimped out by some dude in a back alley or do it in a regulated, safe and legal brothel?

Agree. It's not my body, it's my daughter's. I doubt that'd be what she wanted to do with her life, but for some people it is - it often gives back a sense of autonomy. The possessiveness of some fathers is borderline creepy.

Sex trafficking is the issue here, not sex work itself.

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19 minutes ago, HMFIC said:

Where else is a 77 year old widow going to get sex ?  It's no different that being a sugar daddy to a young chick who is liable to sue you eventually.  It's a victimless crime, unless Kraft was part of the alleged sex  slave trade. Otherwise it's a misdemeanor, subject to a fine, and what ever the NFL decides to do. 

You say it is a "Victimless Crime", but it's not. See, If Kraft pays money to a business that uses human trafficking to provide the service, then he is supporting an illegal/immoral business that preys on young girls. Kraft could afford any descreit high dollar escort he would ever want, and this would be a victimless crime. However, he chose to go to a place that has young Asian girls. Kraft may have allowed himself to think that the young Asian girls were really not sex slaves, but the reality is that he did know and didn't care.

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58 minutes ago, HMFIC said:

Where else is a 77 year old widow going to get sex ?  It's no different that being a sugar daddy to a young chick who is liable to sue you eventually.  It's a victimless crime, unless Kraft was part of the alleged sex  slave trade. Otherwise it's a misdemeanor, subject to a fine, and what ever the NFL decides to do. 

Participating is promoting almost all of the time and DEFINITELY in this instance.

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On 2/24/2019 at 5:59 PM, octoslash said:

 

Lol y'all don't know what you're talking about. 

I'm almost 56 and can hammer nails with mine if I want.  And I've never even seen a pecker pill up close.

do you bike like dimitroff??

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2 hours ago, Falcon Man™ said:

Participating is promoting almost all of the time and DEFINITELY in this instance.

So what is he to do ?

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2 hours ago, 4dabirds said:

You say it is a "Victimless Crime", but it's not. See, If Kraft pays money to a business that uses human trafficking to provide the service, then he is supporting an illegal/immoral business that preys on young girls. Kraft could afford any descreit high dollar escort he would ever want, and this would be a victimless crime. However, he chose to go to a place that has young Asian girls. Kraft may have allowed himself to think that the young Asian girls were really not sex slaves, but the reality is that he did know and didn't care.

There are literally thousands of massage parlors who use volunteer women, not slaves.  Kraft had no way of knowing it was a sex slave operation or not.  You don't know that either, so stop convicting a possibly innocent man.  

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Just now, HMFIC said:

There are literally thousands of massage parlors who use volunteer women, not slaves.  Kraft had no way of knowing it was a sex slave operation or not.  You don't know that either, so stop convicting a possibly innocent man.  

Actually, I do know. The report clearly states that the massage parlor has ties to human trafficking. Yes, there are many massage parlors out there were women are there voluntarily. However, if the massage parlor is staffed with young asians, then it is likely that they were all brought to the country to be sexually exploited against their will. These types of operations only offer survival and nothing more. These operations prey on the poor in asian countries, and it has been going on for a long time. Kraft could say he had no idea, but he'd have to be a complete idiot to not know what was really going on. You'd have be living under a rock to not know of all the press that human trafficking has gotten through the years and its relationship to young asian girls. It's not a secret, and you can't use ignorance to profess any innocence. 

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Everybody pretending to know what was going on in Florida is interesting.  But here is something even more interesting.

While hundreds of people are being charged with soliciting prostitution and providing prostitution, not a single person has been charged with trafficking.

Hmmmmmm.

What Was Really Going On At Orchids Of Asia?

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19 hours ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

Not a valid comparison. Legalizing hardcore drugs (which is something I don't approve of btw) would greatly reduce the power of the black market, and hinder illegal sellers ability to make a profit. A black market will always exist for commodities like drugs/sex work, but legalization always greatly reduces those black markets.

Black markets for children, for instance, would still exist. But if brothels were regulated, the women would have options in terms of getting away. If men knew they could go to a brothel in which the sex workers were tested for STDs and they could potentially sue if infected, it would reduce the appeal of going to some back alley whore house. Also, if men know that they're in a legal business -- with security -- then they'll be less likely to commit sexual assault. It would also help in the prevention of spreading of STDs.

Legalization leads to fewer STDs and fewer cases of sexual assault.source:  http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/decriminalizing-prostitution-linked-to-fewer-stds-and-rapes

Again,the black market will always exist. But legalizing it WOULD give more options to women, and greatly reduce the appeal of the illegal market. Then the feds could focus more of their efforts on child sex trafficking, which is something we could all agree is a HUGE problem.

And legalization/decriminalization does not magically fix every issue with sex trafficking, nor does it completely rid the country of sexual assault, but imo, it's a step in the right direction. 

This is true.  Look at the black market for cigarettes and alcohol.  You can buy both in every state, but there is still a black market.  Stolen cigarettes are a big black market commodity.  Did you know it is illegal to transport any alcohol into Pennsylvania unless you pay the PA state tax on that alcohol?  There are several states that have very low tax rates on Alcohol and it is a federal crime to transport the cheap alcohol across a state line and then resale it, but there is still a black market for it.

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1 hour ago, HMFIC said:

There are literally thousands of massage parlors who use volunteer women, not slaves.  Kraft had no way of knowing it was a sex slave operation or not.  You don't know that either, so stop convicting a possibly innocent man.  

Come on man

How can you say that with such authority?

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10 minutes ago, rounz said:

Come on man

How can you say that with such authority?

It is documented that there are 9000 massage parlors in the United States providing sexual services. Do you think all of them are using slaves?  If so, wow, our law enforcement is doing a really bad job of getting evidence of that, because there are not that many convictions for trafficking.  Even in this case no person as of yet is even charged with trafficking.

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9 minutes ago, rounz said:

Come on man

How can you say that with such authority?

Yeah, unless he was referring to legit massage parlors that give only, you know, massages, then he's way off the mark. I'd wager that nearly all massage parlors that do give happy happy endings are exploitative. We have no way of knowing what sort of arrangements the girls have with the owners and rather they're doing it willingly or if they're being exploited, therefore they shouldn't exist. 

And Kraft should know better. He has better options, too. The man isn't some pathetic lonely 77 year old widow, he's Robert Kraft AKA billionaire playboy. He could EASILY afford a high-tier escort if he wanted to. ****, he could probably bang super models if he throws them enough cash. The fact that he went out of his way to go to some sketchy massage parlor is just weird and unnecessary IMO.

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7 minutes ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

Yeah, unless he was referring to legit massage parlors that give only, you know, massages, then he's way off the mark. I'd wager that nearly all massage parlors that do give happy happy endings are exploitative. We have no way of knowing what sort of arrangements the girls have with the owners and rather they're doing it willingly or if they're being exploited, therefore they shouldn't exist. 

And Kraft should know better. He has better options, too. The man isn't some pathetic lonely 77 year old widow, he's Robert Kraft AKA billionaire playboy. He could EASILY afford a high-tier escort if he wanted to. ****, he could probably bang super models if he throws them enough cash. The fact that he went out of his way to go to some sketchy massage parlor is just weird and unnecessary IMO.

Exploitative is a pretty broad word.  I could make the claim that most employers across all industries are exploitative.

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Just now, Peyton said:

Exploitative is a pretty broad word.  I could make the claim that most employers across all industries are exploitative.

Not even in same universe of being the same thing. 

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2 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Not even in same universe of being the same thing. 

Do you think the Foxconn workers making Iphones that are so miserable that they are jumping off the top of the buildings are being exploited?

The world isn't so black and white, there are lots of shades of gray.

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