170 posts in this topic

55 minutes ago, Smiler11 said:

When they did target Trufant in those first 3 years, QB's had less than a 60% completion percentage (well below league average). There was a reason QB's were avoiding him.

I'm just trying to provide context for why he got the contract he got and by any measure, Trufant was elite in 2015. For whatever reason he's hasn't been that guy since. I don't know if it is down to injuries, lack of pass rush, regression - potentially a combination of all three. I'd love to see get him back to that level this year, if he doesn't I suspect this may be his last year as Falcon.

 

The we sentence i wrote said they didn't throw his way because there was  the notorious grabber Alford. What did Trufan t do to earn that respect? Lol. Classic case of stat s without context dictating "reality".  Y thi s standard Ronald Darby was a top 3 corner in 2015?

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1 hour ago, ATLSlobberKnockers said:

The we sentence i wrote said they didn't throw his way because there was  the notorious grabber Alford. What did Trufan t do to earn that respect? Lol. Classic case of stat s without context dictating "reality".  Y thi s standard Ronald Darby was a top 3 corner in 2015?

I'm wondering what part of tru was targeted nearly 200 times and allowed three receptions has anything to do with Alford? 

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1 hour ago, ATLSlobberKnockers said:

The we sentence i wrote said they didn't throw his way because there was  the notorious grabber Alford. What did Trufan t do to earn that respect? Lol. Classic case of stat s without context dictating "reality".  Y thi s standard Ronald Darby was a top 3 corner in 2015?

Well they did throw his way, once every 9.8 coverage snaps. Everything I just shared pointed to him being elite in those scenarios he was targetted (at least in 2015).

Trufant can be both elite pre 2016 and just average since. Both those things can be true.

The contract extension he received can be both fair value at the time and over-inflated now. Again both of those things can be true.

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10 hours ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Bro you need to go back and watch some tape. I watch plenty. Tru had a couple good years then got discovered and started getting lit. His PFF scores should reflect that. He can't press, gets beat often, can't take the ball away, is grossly overpaid and uncuttable right now.

Dimi traded a 1st, 3rd and 6th to move up for Tru. After trying to lowball Grimes and getting caught up in an injury tag. Grimes went on to ball out for MIA and TB. Way more than Tru who's been average. Then he gave Tru a six year deal at $13.8M per with no out until 2020. Troffed.

hate trade ups. Could have stood pat and drafted Xavier Rhodes. 

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4 minutes ago, Vandy said:

hate trade ups. Could have stood pat and drafted Xavier Rhodes. 

You and me both bro. Dimi loves trade ups though. He traded three 1sts, three 2nds, a 3rd, three 4ths, a 5th, a 6th and a 7th to move up and select Julio, Tru, Sackmaker and Quizz. That's thirteen possible contributors for two and a half players. Troffed.

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21 hours ago, Smiler11 said:

Actually he was... People ave such short memories...

In 2015 teams literally avoided Trufant. He was widely considered a top 5 corner in the league.

Is Trufant the Best Corner in the NFL?

Every fan knows the big-name cornerbacks like Patrick Peterson, Richard Sherman, and Josh Norman. If 2016 is anything like his first three seasons in the NFL, it's only a matter of time until Falcons cornerback Desmond Trufant is mentioned among this group. 

Since being drafted with 22nd overall pick in the 2013 draft, Trufant has continued to look like one of the league's shutdown corners. He has started every game since being drafted, holding opponents' completion percentage below 60 percent each year. Trufant was rewarded for his stellar play by being selected to his first Pro Bowl last season. 

Standing 6 foot, Trufant has the build of an elite corner in today's NFL. This size allows him to be one of the better cornerback run defenders in the league by effectively shedding wide receivers and getting to the outside. Despite Trufant's size, he has the ability to shadow other team's No. 1 receivers. 

Trufant's speed and size has drawn attention from some of the league's best quarterbacks. Drew Brees plays against Trufant twice a year and has been impressed by the young corner:

"I think he's an extremely good player," Brees said. "I think he is as quick and athletic and fast as any corner in the NFL. And you see him play with good body position. You see him decipher things. I've just kind of watched him grow from his rookie year until now. And when you take a guy who has the skill set and then all of a sudden he begins to gain the experience, that's when a guy can become dangerous."

Brees isn't the only one taking notice of the fourth-year corner. Because teams respected Trufant so much last season, they only threw in his direction 56 times out of a possible 979 snaps. This was good enough to make Trufant the least targeted corner in the league last year.

If there's a knock on Trufant, it's that he hasn't created as many turnovers as other top corners. He only has six interceptions through his first three seasons. That being said, he is rarely targeted and the Falcons have an awful pass rush. In fact, the Falcons were last in rushing the passer in 2015. 

All signs point to Trufant building upon his early success and cementing himself as one of the best corners in the NFL. He has already been more successful than the two cornerbacks cornerbacks selected before him in the 2013 draft, Dee Milliner and D.J. Hayden. If the Falcons defense can improve as a whole, Trufant should get the spotlight he rightly deserves. 

https://www.12up.com/posts/3429023-is-trufant-the-best-corner-in-the-nfl

Listen he's not a bum, but he has been over-hyped since being drafted,,getting fewer targets means nothing. Teams targeted Alford and for good reason. Go watch the games against Tampa in Koetter's first year. Koetter (who knew this team quite well) went right at Trufant all day and he was burned repeatedly.

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3 minutes ago, vafalconfan said:

Listen he's not a bum, but he has been over-hyped since being drafted,,getting fewer targets means nothing. Teams targeted Alford and for good reason. Go watch the games against Tampa in Koetter's first year. Koetter (who knew this team quite well) went right at Trufant all day and he was burned repeatedly.

I've repeatedly said that since that outstanding season in 2015 where he was arguably a top 5 corner, and those first 3 years in the league where he was very good for us, he just hasn't been the same player.

I remember the game well. Mike Evans has always caused Tru problems.

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5 hours ago, Smiler11 said:

When they did target Trufant in those first 3 years, QB's had less than a 60% completion percentage (well below league average). There was a reason QB's were avoiding him.

I'm just trying to provide context for why he got the contract he got and by any measure, Trufant was elite in 2015. For whatever reason he's hasn't been that guy since. I don't know if it is down to injuries, lack of pass rush, regression - potentially a combination of all three. I'd love to see get him back to that level this year, if he doesn't I suspect this may be his last year as Falcon.

 

His ONLY Top 5 season? Smh. Wow.

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2 hours ago, Vandy said:

hate trade ups. Could have stood pat and drafted Xavier Rhodes. 

I don't think Rhodes becomes the corner he is under Smitty for two years to begin his career. Trufant and Alford fit what Smitty wanted a lot more than Rhodes did. 

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30 minutes ago, vel said:

I don't think Rhodes becomes the corner he is under Smitty for two years to begin his career. Trufant and Alford fit what Smitty wanted a lot more than Rhodes did. 

But Rhodes fits DQ better than Tru does... So???

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15 minutes ago, Hurry_Up_And_Buy said:

But Rhodes fits DQ better than Tru does... So???

Was DQ the HC when Rhodes and Tru were draft? 

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3 hours ago, vel said:

I don't think Rhodes becomes the corner he is under Smitty for two years to begin his career. Trufant and Alford fit what Smitty wanted a lot more than Rhodes did. 

Possibly Vel, hard to say. As we know Smitty was pretty much toast by then. Yet Tru was a much better corner under a burned-out Smith than he’s been under Quinn.

I just always liked Rhodes game way back when he was in college at FSU.

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5 hours ago, vafalconfan said:

Listen he's not a bum, but he has been over-hyped since being drafted,,getting fewer targets means nothing. Teams targeted Alford and for good reason. Go watch the games against Tampa in Koetter's first year. Koetter (who knew this team quite well) went right at Trufant all day and he was burned repeatedly.

LOL, A corner getting fewer targets means a lot. And much like Julio with Patrick Peterson (for just one example) , Mike Evans can make good corners look like bums. 

And Tru is still a good corner.

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1 hour ago, Vandy said:

Possibly Vel, hard to say. As we know Smitty was pretty much toast by then. Yet Tru was a much better corner under a burned-out Smith than he’s been under Quinn.

I just always liked Rhodes game way back when he was in college at FSU.

Smitty works well with high floor, low ceiling players. Rhodes had a much lower floor but a higher ceiling than Tru. I don't believe Smitty would have put Rhodes in positions that would have developed his potential the way he has in MIN. That's why Tru worked well in my opinion. An easily translatable skill set.

Also, I think DQ requires more aggressive corner play with more press while Smitty wants more passive CB play with off coverage. I think that's why Alford and Collins looked so good when DQ took over and why Tru has struggled since his return, he's just not aggressive. 

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22 minutes ago, vel said:

Smitty works well with high floor, low ceiling players. Rhodes had a much lower floor but a higher ceiling than Tru. I don't believe Smitty would have put Rhodes in positions that would have developed his potential the way he has in MIN. That's why Tru worked well in my opinion. An easily translatable skill set.

Also, I think DQ requires more aggressive corner play with more press while Smitty wants more passive CB play with off coverage. I think that's why Alford and Collins looked so good when DQ took over and why Tru has struggled since his return, he's just not aggressive. 

I don’t know about that. Except for about 1/3 2016 season into playoffs, since quinn’s been here our secondary play has been about as passive as I’ve ever seen under any coach. It’s been mind boggling, frankly.

Going into year 4, Still waiting for that aggressiveness Quinn preaches. It’s gonna be interesting to see how it goes this year with him back as the DC. I’m hopeful he returns to his roots, because his defenses have been passive for most of his time in Atlanta.

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Just now, Vandy said:

I don’t know about that. Except for about 1/3 2016 season into playoffs, since quinn’s been here our corner play has been about as passive as I’ve ever seen under any coach. 

Going into year 4, Still waiting for that aggressiveness Quinn preaches. It’s gonna be interesting to see how it goes this year with him back as the DC. I’m hopeful he returns to his roots.

That's why I pointed to when DQ was calling the plays. The moment Manuel took over, this defense went soft. Said it a few weeks into the 2017 season. Took people a while to see it this year. 

DQ back calling the plays, he's already opened the door for Oliver at RCB with more length and physicality there. Poole was physical, but I don't think you lose any putting Kazee there despite the size difference. Tru is the wild card, but the CB room is primed to add another draft pick. Don't be surprised if it's a 6'0+ 200lb CB that is physical. Guys like JoeJuan Williams, Michael Jackson, Amani Hooker, bigger CBs who can hit and pester WRs in man or zone. The only CBs we've drafted since he's been here are Jalen Collins (6'1 203lbs) and Akeem King (6'1 215lbs) and Oliver. I don't truly count Kazee, since they immediately moved him to FS. He's clearly been fishing to add some length and size to the outside while working with what he's had. Even keeping Blidi Wreh aligns with that (6'1 190lbs) while letting Poole walk (5'11 210lbs). 

Add one of those guys I just listed and you've got nothing but 6'0 and up corners that play with the length and physicality DQ wants outside of Kazee, who breaks the rule but led the league in INTs, a rule worth breaking if that's the return you're getting. I think he's wanted to revamp the DL and CB position and has been patient since we've been winning without his defense truly being built, but now he's got the opportunity and the pressure to make it happen. 

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47 minutes ago, vel said:

That's why I pointed to when DQ was calling the plays. The moment Manuel took over, this defense went soft. Said it a few weeks into the 2017 season. Took people a while to see it this year. 

DQ back calling the plays, he's already opened the door for Oliver at RCB with more length and physicality there. Poole was physical, but I don't think you lose any putting Kazee there despite the size difference. Tru is the wild card, but the CB room is primed to add another draft pick. Don't be surprised if it's a 6'0+ 200lb CB that is physical. Guys like JoeJuan Williams, Michael Jackson, Amani Hooker, bigger CBs who can hit and pester WRs in man or zone. The only CBs we've drafted since he's been here are Jalen Collins (6'1 203lbs) and Akeem King (6'1 215lbs) and Oliver. I don't truly count Kazee, since they immediately moved him to FS. He's clearly been fishing to add some length and size to the outside while working with what he's had. Even keeping Blidi Wreh aligns with that (6'1 190lbs) while letting Poole walk (5'11 210lbs). 

Add one of those guys I just listed and you've got nothing but 6'0 and up corners that play with the length and physicality DQ wants outside of Kazee, who breaks the rule but led the league in INTs, a rule worth breaking if that's the return you're getting. I think he's wanted to revamp the DL and CB position and has been patient since we've been winning without his defense truly being built, but now he's got the opportunity and the pressure to make it happen. 

Yeah, I remember you pointing that out in 2017. And you were right, statistically we were top 10, but in actuality we were a bend-but-don't break defense which cost us a couple games when the offense struggled..

Much like we were under smith. 

Question: So you blame MM for the passive style, yet DQ didn't have a say in that for two years? I think that's a little too simplistic......no?

Back to your good point on corners, I get it. But continuing with Rico at FS is more of a wild card than Trufant, IMO, if you want to have an aggressive secondary. If it were me, I'd keep Kazee there and move Rico to nickle. 

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51 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Yeah, I remember you pointing that out in 2017. And you were right, statistically we were top 10, but in actuality we were a bend-but-don't break defense which cost us a couple games when the offense struggled..

Much like we were under smith. 

Question: So you blame MM for the passive style, yet DQ didn't have a say in that for two years? I think that's a little too simplistic......no?

Back to your good point on corners, I get it. But continuing with Rico at FS is more of a wild card than Trufant, IMO, if you want to have an aggressive secondary. If it were me, I'd keep Kazee there and move Rico to nickle. 

I blame MM for it but I blame DQ for not stepping in. I think he appropriately gave Manuel and Sark their rope in 2017. Just like he did in 2015 with Kyle. Then he adjusted to get them what they needed in 2018. Sark got Ridley and we saw the product. Manuel had all of his guys get hurt, which didn't help him at all, admittedly. But I still think he had the opportunity to play more aggressive than he did, as we saw later in the year once they got more aggressive prior to Debo's return then a little bit more after Debo's return. You saw Oliver blossom once they played more aggressive than when they were sitting in zone. He didn't adjust to the talent he did have. 

But yea I agree on Rico too. I was just speaking to the corners. I think you'll see Kazee and Rico both play nickel and FS. But in the end, the scheme is predicated on a FS keeping the top on the defense and the corners playing aggressively knowing they have a FS over them to help. Rico is better at that than Kazee in my opinion. Not as rangy, but more consistent. I'd rather Kazee underneath playing for the ball and big plays with Rico to save him than Rico underneath doing that and Kazee over top. We've seen Kazee miss some saves that Rico doesn't. 

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Just now, vel said:

I blame MM for it but I blame DQ for not stepping in. I think he appropriately gave Manuel and Sark their rope in 2017. Just like he did in 2015 with Kyle. Then he adjusted to get them what they needed in 2018. Sark got Ridley and we saw the product. Manuel had all of his guys get hurt, which didn't help him at all, admittedly. But I still think he had the opportunity to play more aggressive than he did, as we saw later in the year once they got more aggressive prior to Debo's return then a little bit more after Debo's return. You saw Oliver blossom once they played more aggressive than when they were sitting in zone. He didn't adjust to the talent he did have. 

But yea I agree on Rico too. I was just speaking to the corners. I think you'll see Kazee and Rico both play nickel and FS. But in the end, the scheme is predicated on a FS keeping the top on the defense and the corners playing aggressively knowing they have a FS over them to help. Rico is better at that than Kazee in my opinion. Not as rangy, but more consistent. I'd rather Kazee underneath playing for the ball and big plays with Rico to save him than Rico underneath doing that and Kazee over top. We've seen Kazee miss some saves that Rico doesn't. 

Some good stuff there man. Always enjoy talking football with you bro. 

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9 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Some good stuff there man. Always enjoy talking football with you bro. 

Always. Just ready for FA and the Draft to come. If you come to Nashville for the draft, let me know and we can grab a brew.

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16 minutes ago, vel said:

Always. Just ready for FA and the Draft to come. If you come to Nashville for the draft, let me know and we can grab a brew.

Man, I had it all planned out, as attending the draft has  been on my bucket list......then one of my best clients decided to get married that weekend and I just can't make the logistics work to do both.

But I'll definitely catch you in Nashville sometime soon, I love your city's vibe. 

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14 hours ago, Smiler11 said:

Well they did throw his way, once every 9.8 coverage snaps. Everything I just shared pointed to him being elite in those scenarios he was targetted (at least in 2015).

Trufant can be both elite pre 2016 and just average since. Both those things can be true.

The contract extension he received can be both fair value at the time and over-inflated now. Again both of those things can be true.

No doubt Trufant is elite in coverage. He lives off makeup speed. He is a total liability vs the run. He's like Vic in that both are one-trick ponies.

Can anyone defend the idea of giving top market for a.corner who lost a half season to injury. During that time the defense improved with a balanced, and physical corner in his place? You give Julio Jones money to cb, who is about to undergo surgery? You make a contract that MARRIE S you until 2020?

I'm sorry but can anyone defend the actual contract without using stats from his first 3 seasons? Yes he used to be good. Top 5 in coverage

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4 hours ago, ATLSlobberKnockers said:

No doubt Trufant is elite in coverage. He lives off makeup speed. He is a total liability vs the run. He's like Vic in that both are one-trick ponies.

Can anyone defend the idea of giving top market for a.corner who lost a half season to injury. During that time the defense improved with a balanced, and physical corner in his place? You give Julio Jones money to cb, who is about to undergo surgery? You make a contract that MARRIE S you until 2020?

I'm sorry but can anyone defend the actual contract without using stats from his first 3 seasons? Yes he used to be good. Top 5 in coverage

I would say at least 90% on here were glamouring to re-sign Tru. It was a shoulder injury - it wasn't like he was coming off an ACL or achilles injury.

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Not sure why you guys keep bringing up Rhodes for. He was the 108th rated cb out of 120 according to PFF last year. Grass is always greener with you people and half the time you don't have a clue about the grass on the other side. 

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