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7 hours ago, Hard2BaBirdWachr said:

I'm just gonna throw this out here in this thread. Did anyone suspect anything fishy about the ref calls in 2017 when we played the Saints both times?

Man I sure hope all the saints complaining will put an end to these games in New Orleans where they get most of the calls in their favor. My biggest fear is that the NFL will STILL feel bad for them and use us as the sacrificial lamb yet again...

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On 2/20/2019 at 0:49 PM, Falcons_Frenzy said:

They're not scripted. You wouldn't have a no call like the Rams/Saints game deciding it if that was the case. That was bad for the NFL. Real bad. I would lean more towards referees being bribed though. 

 

 

If there is anything going it’s with the refs.   I’ll go along with that all day.  They need to be paid at a level that would discourage taking bribes.   Follow the money.  If your part of an organization that has millions on a game, wouldn’t it make sense to find a morally flexible official and kick 1% back to him if he “misses” a key call?

its when we get into players, the league and networks being involved that it falls apart.  If the championship was predetermined, every FA in the league would be lined up at the Patriots door.  

These guys take years off their lives trying to get a ring   They wouldn’t let some order from Goodell or CBS stand in their way.

 

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9 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said:

What examples can you point to as direct proof? Horrendously bad calls does not make for proof that something is rigged.

Here you go. Are you a Math Major by chance? Maybe there are some Ga Tech wiz kids out there that can help determine the odds of anomalies that occur in the NFL? Would be a great PhD thesis for someone looking at statistical analysis. Here are just a couple that I have looked at, think the odds are much much higher though than what I have come-up with? 

Everyone says show me the evidence of games being fixed, then I will believe it? With the use of statistics there is an overwhelming case to be made for game manipulation. Statistics are used in a court of law for evidence, such as DNA testing. A DNA test does not present a fact, but rather a statistical probability, and statistically there is a solid foundation made to support the topic discussed.

Could really get involved, but here is just the 'tip-of-the-iceberg'  from onlyFalcon Fan's perspective:

  •         46,656-to-1 odds that 3-consecutive PI or Defensive Holding penalties were thrown against the Falcons after holding the Patriots to 4th down, in their last drive of the first half during the next to last SB. The Falcons were taking over the game up to that point. (NFL says 1 in 6 plays result in penalty, factor of 2 for which team, factor of 3 for which down, odds of happening on 3-consecutive plays)

       

  •         Two years prior when the Panthers were struggling against the Falcons to close the season with a perfect record, they had come down to their last drive. There were 3-consecutive flags thrown against the Falcons to stop the clock for the Panthers. Some of the penalties I had never heard of (Holding on the DL). Did not dare do the statistical analysis on that one. Would have been astronomical. 

 

  •        Last season the NFL needed a team to mathematically stay in the playoff hunt, to attract more viewers later that afternoon. If the Falcons won that team would have been eliminated. There were six- consecutive penalties against the Falcons to start the game. The statistical odds on that one would appear on the surface to be a mere 64-to-1, but when you throw in anomalies like the number of penalties thrown in such a short period of time at the start the game, you begin clicking off thousands-to-one.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      *********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************                     

You can go ahead and doubt statistical analysis, as applied to this topic, but no self-respecting scientist would ever do the same. There are many reasons to fix game outcomes, not always just to cover the spread. There are ratings involved, getting markets involved like LA, and last but not least there are favors to be handed out (Kraft's firm negotiating the mega TV contracts.) Like I said these are only a few examples of my experience of being a Falcon’s Fan, and then only touching the surface of that. What about all the other anomalies seen by Pittsburgh Fans, Cleveland Fans, etc…? Did not even touch on the non-PI call in the NO/NE playoff game, or the touchdown taken away from Pittsburgh in a regular season game against NE last season. As was stated earlier, this is just the 'tip-of-the-iceberg' of how the NFL operates. If we were in a court of law the evidence in my opinion would add-up overwhelmingly in favor of game modification. Either in civil or public court! 

Edited by Cheap Talk
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1 hour ago, Cheap Talk said:

Here you go. Are you a Math Major by chance? Maybe there are some Ga Tech wiz kids out there that can help determine the odds of anomalies that occur in the NFL? Would be a great PhD thesis for someone looking at statistical analysis. Here are just a couple that I have looked at, think the odds are much much higher though than what I have come-up with? 

Everyone says show me the evidence of games being fixed, then I will believe it? With the use of statistics there is an overwhelming case to be made for game manipulation. Statistics are used in a court of law for evidence, such as DNA testing. A DNA test does not present a fact, but rather a statistical probability, and statistically there is a solid foundation made to support the topic discussed.

Could really get involved, but here is just the 'tip-of-the-iceberg'  from onlyFalcon Fan's perspective:

  •         46,656-to-1 odds that 3-consecutive PI or Defensive Holding penalties were thrown against the Falcons after holding the Patriots to 4th down, in their last drive of the first half during the next to last SB. The Falcons were taking over the game up to that point. (NFL says 1 in 6 plays result in penalty, factor of 2 for which team, factor of 3 for which down, odds of happening on 3-consecutive plays)

       

  •         Two years prior when the Panthers were struggling against the Falcons to close the season with a perfect record, they had come down to their last drive. There were 3-consecutive flags thrown against the Falcons to stop the clock for the Panthers. Some of the penalties I had never heard of (Holding on the DL). Did not dare do the statistical analysis on that one. Would have been astronomical. 

 

  •        Last season the NFL needed a team to mathematically stay in the playoff hunt, to attract more viewers later that afternoon. If the Falcons won that team would have been eliminated. There were six- consecutive penalties against the Falcons to start the game. The statistical odds on that one would appear on the surface to be a mere 64-to-1, but when you throw in anomalies like the number of penalties thrown in such a short period of time at the start the game, you begin clicking off thousands-to-one.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      *********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************                     

You can go ahead and doubt statistical analysis, as applied to this topic, but no self-respecting scientist would ever do the same. There are many reasons to fix game outcomes, not always just to cover the spread. There are ratings involved, getting markets involved like LA, and last but not least there are favors to be handed out (Kraft's firm negotiating the mega TV contracts.) Like I said these are only a few examples of my experience of being a Falcon’s Fan, and then only touching the surface of that. What about all the other anomalies seen by Pittsburgh Fans, Cleveland Fans, etc…? Did not even touch on the non-PI call in the NO/NE playoff game, or the touchdown taken away from Pittsburgh in a regular season game against NE last season. As was stated earlier, this is just the 'tip-of-the-iceberg' of how the NFL operates. If we were in a court of law the evidence in my opinion would add-up overwhelmingly in favor of game modification. Either in civil or public court! 

Its just naive to have the point of view that it is just impossible that game outcomes are manipulated.

I mean are the players handed scripts to perform like a play? Absolutely not. That would be ridiculous. But the point to you and I seem to be making is "that much involvement is needed to ensure a teams win. Reg season games may just have point shaving, and I have seen so much proof of that in college and NFL that I can't be convinced otherwise.

Playoffs could be as rigged as Hillary winning the Democratic nomination in 2016. I mean if money is involved it's always rigged to impro e the wealthy. The world series was bought at least once that we absolutely know of. Did any of the players blow the whistle on it? He'll no. English premeir league has proven that officials have been bought. Why would the NFL, which is just a business, be exempt from the same?

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You are talking about bribing refs, and that would be a case of rogue elements and isolated incidents. What this discussion was trying to imply was a systematic rigging of the games perpetrated by the league. 

Every instance you mentioned was a rogue element doing outside of the norm and in no way endorsed by the league involved.

I would also note that in all the examples mentioned, they were all found out.... because there was no huge league wide conspiracy.

A ref being bribed?... completely different subject.

Players involved in throwing the WS? Literally a 100 years ago in a completely different sports world environment... and even though it involved a limited number of people, by game 1 runors were so strong about the fix that some writers and Sox staff were already taking notes about questionable plays. Apples and Oranges as well regarding a league wide conspiracy to rig games.

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8 hours ago, Cheap Talk said:

Here you go. Are you a Math Major by chance? Maybe there are some Ga Tech wiz kids out there that can help determine the odds of anomalies that occur in the NFL? Would be a great PhD thesis for someone looking at statistical analysis. Here are just a couple that I have looked at, think the odds are much much higher though than what I have come-up with? 

Everyone says show me the evidence of games being fixed, then I will believe it? With the use of statistics there is an overwhelming case to be made for game manipulation. Statistics are used in a court of law for evidence, such as DNA testing. A DNA test does not present a fact, but rather a statistical probability, and statistically there is a solid foundation made to support the topic discussed.

Could really get involved, but here is just the 'tip-of-the-iceberg'  from onlyFalcon Fan's perspective:

  •         46,656-to-1 odds that 3-consecutive PI or Defensive Holding penalties were thrown against the Falcons after holding the Patriots to 4th down, in their last drive of the first half during the next to last SB. The Falcons were taking over the game up to that point. (NFL says 1 in 6 plays result in penalty, factor of 2 for which team, factor of 3 for which down, odds of happening on 3-consecutive plays)

       

  •         Two years prior when the Panthers were struggling against the Falcons to close the season with a perfect record, they had come down to their last drive. There were 3-consecutive flags thrown against the Falcons to stop the clock for the Panthers. Some of the penalties I had never heard of (Holding on the DL). Did not dare do the statistical analysis on that one. Would have been astronomical. 

 

  •        Last season the NFL needed a team to mathematically stay in the playoff hunt, to attract more viewers later that afternoon. If the Falcons won that team would have been eliminated. There were six- consecutive penalties against the Falcons to start the game. The statistical odds on that one would appear on the surface to be a mere 64-to-1, but when you throw in anomalies like the number of penalties thrown in such a short period of time at the start the game, you begin clicking off thousands-to-one.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      *********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************                     

You can go ahead and doubt statistical analysis, as applied to this topic, but no self-respecting scientist would ever do the same. There are many reasons to fix game outcomes, not always just to cover the spread. There are ratings involved, getting markets involved like LA, and last but not least there are favors to be handed out (Kraft's firm negotiating the mega TV contracts.) Like I said these are only a few examples of my experience of being a Falcon’s Fan, and then only touching the surface of that. What about all the other anomalies seen by Pittsburgh Fans, Cleveland Fans, etc…? Did not even touch on the non-PI call in the NO/NE playoff game, or the touchdown taken away from Pittsburgh in a regular season game against NE last season. As was stated earlier, this is just the 'tip-of-the-iceberg' of how the NFL operates. If we were in a court of law the evidence in my opinion would add-up overwhelmingly in favor of game modification. Either in civil or public court! 

Folks don't seem to understand that the NFL is a BUSINESS... I comment on these forums because i love sports, not because of ignorance to whats going on...

Edited by slickgadawg
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3 hours ago, TheUsualStuff said:

You are talking about bribing refs, and that would be a case of rogue elements and isolated incidents. What this discussion was trying to imply was a systematic rigging of the games perpetrated by the league. 

Every instance you mentioned was a rogue element doing outside of the norm and in no way endorsed by the league involved.

I would also note that in all the examples mentioned, they were all found out.... because there was no huge league wide conspiracy.

A ref being bribed?... completely different subject.

Players involved in throwing the WS? Literally a 100 years ago in a completely different sports world environment... and even though it involved a limited number of people, by game 1 runors were so strong about the fix that some writers and Sox staff were already taking notes about questionable plays. Apples and Oranges as well regarding a league wide conspiracy to rig games.

You are so easy. So now you want to claim that the incidents mentioned above are isolated incidents from rogue Refs (We will call them IIRRs)? Meaning I am off topic because the NFL could not have any involvement.

Like I said this is just the 'tip-of-the-iceberg' a few incidents from a Falcon's Fan with many more to mention from Falcon's games, and then multiply that by a factor of (31) from all the NFL games. A lot of small-time bribing going on there. The NFL must recruit guys from the Chicago PD?

I have heard you make some lame remarks, but this one is the whopper. 

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10 hours ago, ATLSlobberKnockers said:

Its just naive to have the point of view that it is just impossible that game outcomes are manipulated.

I mean are the players handed scripts to perform like a play? Absolutely not. That would be ridiculous. But the point to you and I seem to be making is "that much involvement is needed to ensure a teams win. Reg season games may just have point shaving, and I have seen so much proof of that in college and NFL that I can't be convinced otherwise.

Playoffs could be as rigged as Hillary winning the Democratic nomination in 2016. I mean if money is involved it's always rigged to impro e the wealthy. The world series was bought at least once that we absolutely know of. Did any of the players blow the whistle on it? He'll no. English premeir league has proven that officials have been bought. Why would the NFL, which is just a business, be exempt from the same?

 

3 hours ago, slickgadawg said:

Folks don't seem to understand that the NFL is a BUSINESS... I comment on these forums because i love sports, not because of ignorance to whats going on...

Like you two guys, I love football and watching the best of the best in the NFL. Think I can say that we are not happy to be bringing this to light, but rather deeply saddened, wishing we could wake-up and it were not so. Unfortunately it is what it is, and if there is a way to bring the game back to the Fans we certainly ought to at least try.

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12 hours ago, Cheap Talk said:

Here you go. Are you a Math Major by chance? Maybe there are some Ga Tech wiz kids out there that can help determine the odds of anomalies that occur in the NFL? Would be a great PhD thesis for someone looking at statistical analysis. Here are just a couple that I have looked at, think the odds are much much higher though than what I have come-up with? 

Everyone says show me the evidence of games being fixed, then I will believe it? With the use of statistics there is an overwhelming case to be made for game manipulation. Statistics are used in a court of law for evidence, such as DNA testing. A DNA test does not present a fact, but rather a statistical probability, and statistically there is a solid foundation made to support the topic discussed.

Could really get involved, but here is just the 'tip-of-the-iceberg'  from onlyFalcon Fan's perspective:

  •         46,656-to-1 odds that 3-consecutive PI or Defensive Holding penalties were thrown against the Falcons after holding the Patriots to 4th down, in their last drive of the first half during the next to last SB. The Falcons were taking over the game up to that point. (NFL says 1 in 6 plays result in penalty, factor of 2 for which team, factor of 3 for which down, odds of happening on 3-consecutive plays)

       

  •         Two years prior when the Panthers were struggling against the Falcons to close the season with a perfect record, they had come down to their last drive. There were 3-consecutive flags thrown against the Falcons to stop the clock for the Panthers. Some of the penalties I had never heard of (Holding on the DL). Did not dare do the statistical analysis on that one. Would have been astronomical. 

 

  •        Last season the NFL needed a team to mathematically stay in the playoff hunt, to attract more viewers later that afternoon. If the Falcons won that team would have been eliminated. There were six- consecutive penalties against the Falcons to start the game. The statistical odds on that one would appear on the surface to be a mere 64-to-1, but when you throw in anomalies like the number of penalties thrown in such a short period of time at the start the game, you begin clicking off thousands-to-one.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      *********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************                     

You can go ahead and doubt statistical analysis, as applied to this topic, but no self-respecting scientist would ever do the same. There are many reasons to fix game outcomes, not always just to cover the spread. There are ratings involved, getting markets involved like LA, and last but not least there are favors to be handed out (Kraft's firm negotiating the mega TV contracts.) Like I said these are only a few examples of my experience of being a Falcon’s Fan, and then only touching the surface of that. What about all the other anomalies seen by Pittsburgh Fans, Cleveland Fans, etc…? Did not even touch on the non-PI call in the NO/NE playoff game, or the touchdown taken away from Pittsburgh in a regular season game against NE last season. As was stated earlier, this is just the 'tip-of-the-iceberg' of how the NFL operates. If we were in a court of law the evidence in my opinion would add-up overwhelmingly in favor of game modification. Either in civil or public court! 

Yeah this is totally incorrect. 

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1 hour ago, Cheap Talk said:

 

Like you two guys, I love football and watching the best of the best in the NFL. Think I can say that we are not happy to be bringing this to light, but rather deeply saddened, wishing we could wake-up and it were not so. Unfortunately it is what it is, and if there is a way to bring the game back to the Fans we certainly ought to at least try.

I mean, when they did  28-3,  I was done. :lol:

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I don't know if anyone said it already but the NFL is classified as Sports Entertainment just like the WWE. I can't remember where I heard that but someone should elaborate on that because I don't have the proper information at the moment. That being said after losing the Super Bowl in the fashion that the Falcons did, I've been waiting for our compensation. We've been putting teams "over"(wrestling term) for years now and its our turn to hold the belt.

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1 hour ago, quickzero said:

I don't know if anyone said it already but the NFL is classified as Sports Entertainment just like the WWE. I can't remember where I heard that but someone should elaborate on that because I don't have the proper information at the moment. That being said after losing the Super Bowl in the fashion that the Falcons did, I've been waiting for our compensation. We've been putting teams "over"(wrestling term) for years now and its our turn to hold the belt.

Interesting read

https://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/313959/string-theories-is-the-nfl-broken-because-its-fi.html

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I want y'all to try to script a room of 22 normal people walking. Doing anything. 

 

Now let's let for arguments sake let 5 of them act out of free will. 

 

 

Now let's make all of them athletic freaks who move faster than we could ever imagine. It's ******* impossible. 

 

 

This is so stupid. 

 

 

 

Could games be possibly influenced? Sure. I can sign on to a ref or two being paid off. There's precedence. 

 

 

Scripted games though. 

 

 

Get the **** outta here. Just stupid. 

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Not saying they are scripted, but I still don’t know that I’ve heard a convincing reason that they can’t be scripted. 

 

I mean, technically speaking, the offense essentially “scripts” their plays, is it too far fetched to think the whole thing can’t be orchestrated?

Edited by shc
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I don't believe it goes as far as scripting. Too many people would have to be involved and someone would surely blab. The QBs would have to be involved. You don't think Kapernick would've blown this up?

However, I am 100% certain the games are officiated so as to keep them closer to protect the advertisers from people tuning out. We were a victim of this in the Super Bowl. Remember the 3 straight defensive holding calls?

There may occasionally be a "league favorite". But mostly they want an "exciting product". And in the league charter they are allowed to do *anything* to achieve this. Including slant the officiating.

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On 2/22/2019 at 11:49 PM, shc said:

Not saying they are scripted, but I still don’t know that I’ve heard a convincing reason that they can’t be scripted. 

 

I mean, technically speaking, the offense essentially “scripts” their plays, is it too far fetched to think the whole thing can’t be orchestrated?

Sometimes you do not have to actually script games, just give world-class athletes the chance to do what they do. If you call a holding penalty against one offense to stop a good drive, and let the other offense (NE) hold as much as they want to keep their drives going, then you have done more than enough to achieve your desired outcome. If a special unforeseen 'accident' happens, that can be dealt with in any number of ways - obscure PI rules and catch rules that can go either way, video angles, etc.....

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On 2/22/2019 at 9:26 PM, quickzero said:

I don't know if anyone said it already but the NFL is classified as Sports Entertainment just like the WWE. I can't remember where I heard that but someone should elaborate on that because I don't have the proper information at the moment. That being said after losing the Super Bowl in the fashion that the Falcons did, I've been waiting for our compensation. We've been putting teams "over"(wrestling term) for years now and its our turn to hold the belt.

Bingo.  YOU are on the right track.  Its entertainment, STORYLINES.  Pay attention to Al Michaels when he is doing the commentating.  He is TELLING you its storylines.  There isn't a week that goes by that he doesn't say that word...  He also has been telling you the betting line in a covert way:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2018/08/29/for-al-michaels-nfl-gambling-references-no-longer-require-a-wink/?utm_term=.6fc0d2c5f2ad

 

 

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On 2/20/2019 at 10:27 AM, nolove4thecrook said:

 

2:20 

Obviously not a goddam fumble. NFL officiating is a joke that has strangely gotten even worse despite all the technology that has come on the scene to improve it. It makes the rest of the league little more than a gag line, a way, way, way over-priced clown show.

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On 2/22/2019 at 10:46 PM, Mid-Nite-Toker said:

"Also in 2010, in a separate court case against the NFL over branded items like hats and shirts, the league presented itself not as 32 separate teams, but as one singular business “unit in the entertainment marketplace.”

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24 minutes ago, Cheap Talk said:

Man that is a great read, sad but true! Say it like it is!

Anyone left to dispute the credibility of the facts brought forth in this article?

They don't wanna believe it but it is what it is.  Thats why I joke about football and the Falcons. I know its entertainment.

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On 2/22/2019 at 11:49 PM, shc said:

Not saying they are scripted, but I still don’t know that I’ve heard a convincing reason that they can’t be scripted. 

 

I mean, technically speaking, the offense essentially “scripts” their plays, is it too far fetched to think the whole thing can’t be orchestrated?

I've never been into the scripted theory myself, I'm more into the referee, the quarterback and coach angle ( think Shanahan in the Superbowl) but you bring up a interesting point...

Edited by slickgadawg
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