Tandy

Draft Opinion - Best DT against the Run

86 posts in this topic

58 minutes ago, Falcanuck said:

He's not a DT, but Zach Allen out of BC is a tremendous run defender from the DE position and has some pass rush ability.

This is the man I want us to draft. I think he’s going to be a helluva player. 

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7 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Greg Little scares me a bit - think he has underachiever traits.

Only good OT in this class is Jonah Williams from what I've seen, reminds me of Jake a little bit. The rest are all bargain bin projects that could be something with tons of spackle, putty, and paint. Guards are a bit better this year that Lindstrom kid, and Cody Ford are gonna be nice.

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47 minutes ago, Tandy said:

Thanks - this is what I actually had - and I just wanted to see what others thought.   How many of these do you think have a chance of falling to us?   I'm thinking Wilkins and Oliver.

I think Quinnen is the only one gauranteed to be gone by 14. After him my wish list looks like this:

1. Ed Oliver

2. Christian Wilkins

3. Jeffrey Simmons

4. Devin White

5. Byron Murphy

 

Like @g-dawg I don't want Lawrence at 14. Just doesn't make sense with his limited pass rush. I think Wilkins is the engine that made Clemson dline run, which makes me hesistant with both Lawrence and Ferrell. 

 

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22 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

It’s a fact.  A study was done between 2010-2015.  It found that outside of round 1 & 2, the most likely spot to find an All Pro is UDFA.  It was 11% of the All Pro selections were UDFA’s

I've seen that study. The reason isn't UDFAs being more likely - it's that there are more of them. 

Example - if 11% of All Pros are UDFA's and 5% are 4th rounders (can't remember the exact number) it sounds like UDFAs as are twice as likely to be All Pro. Right?

Not exactly. There are around 15-20 UDFAs per team, and maybe 36-40 4th rounders total. So around ~4% of 4th rounders might be All Pro, compared to 0.5% of UDFAs. If a team somehow had as many 4th round picks as UDFAs, they'd have a phenomenal shot at drafting an All Pro.

Edit: Reworded to be less harsh

22 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

This is the man I want us to draft. I think he’s going to be a helluva player. 

I seriously doubt it tbh, think he's going to bust hard. But who knows. Dude has no pass rush moves. Great size but eh

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4 minutes ago, Francis York Morgan said:

I've seen that study. The reason isn't UDFAs being more likely - it's that there are more of them, period. 

Example - if 11% of All Pros are UDFA's and 5% are 4th rounders (can't remember the exact number) it sounds like UDFAs as are twice as likely to be All Pro. Right?

Wrong. There are around 15-20 UDFAs per team, and maybe 36-40 4th rounders total. If a team somehow had as many 4th round picks as UDFAs, they'd have a phenomenal shot at drafting an All Pro. So around ~4% of 4th rounders might be All Pro, compared to 0.5% of UDFAs.

Idk why people reference certain stats like that without thinking about the context

I seriously doubt it the, think he's going to bust hard. But who knows. Dude has no pass rush moves

Let me rephrase: outside of Round 1 & 2, the most likely spot to find an All Pro is in the UDFA pool.

Every team gets around the same number of UDFA in camp, do it’s a wash

Edited by Falconsin2012

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1 minute ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Let me rephrase: outside of Round 1 & 2, the most likely spot to find an All Pro is in the UDFA pool

Yeah I gotcha, I reworded my post a bit because it came off harsher than I meant I think. But UDFAs are less likely overall, etc

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1 hour ago, Artys Arryn said:

Ranking the top 5 against the run:

1. Ed Oliver

2. Quinnen Williams

3. Dexter Lawrence

4. Jeffrey Simmons

5. Christian Wilkins

I like all of these DTs but we need a 1T. McClain and Senat got run over. Grady did too when he played the nose. Quinn's only Top 10 Falcon defense featured a 6'3" 346 lb fire plug named Poe. There's only one 1T on that list. Dexter Lawrence. Buddy is 6'4" 340 lbs and can anchor a run defense. If we don't solve the 1T problem in free agency he should be the pick if he's still on the board. Just look at the final four teams this year. All fully capable of running you over. Quinn got run over in 2015, 2016 and 2018.

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1 hour ago, osiruz said:

He blows as a pass rusher, he has one move and that is bull rush. He reminds me of a less talented brooks reed.

My pick would be the Clemson hoss, Dexter Lawrence. Trash can full of dirt and hard to move, I also like Khalen Saunders.

I disagree, but whatever. You like Lawrence and I don’t at all, so clearly our eyes favour different things. 

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8 minutes ago, Francis York Morgan said:

I seriously doubt it tbh, think he's going to bust hard. But who knows. Dude has no pass rush moves. Great size but eh

If it were before last season I would have agreed with you. It seems as if he’s improved his pass rushing repertoire. He has limited moves, but he has the strength and size to be a monster in the right system. With Quinn heading the defense next season, I think he would flourish quickly. At the absolute worst, he’ll be an amazing run defender at the next level. 

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7 minutes ago, Falcanuck said:

I disagree, but whatever. You like Lawrence and I don’t at all, so clearly our eyes favour different things. 

Watch senior bowl practices, he stunk it up something fierce. 

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11 minutes ago, osiruz said:

Watch senior bowl practices, he stunk it up something fierce. 

I watched game tape and saw a very smart, stout DE with the ability to pressure the QB. He’s not a pure passrusher and won’t be drafted specifically for that reason. But he is a highly effective player that can even play inside if needed. He will be a solid NFL contributor for a number of years. A 6-8 sack guy that you can’t run the ball against. That’s somebody I want on my team. Reminds me of Brian Robison, only bigger and stronger.

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1 hour ago, g-dawg said:

We aren't taking Dexter Lawrence at #14 - I will almost guarantee that.  The DTackle needs to be a good run stopper but you don't burn a #14 pick on a run-stopping specialist that will only be on the field 30-40% of the time.

Yep, you can get those round 4.

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1 minute ago, Falcanuck said:

I watched game tape and saw a very smart, stout DE with the ability to pressure the QB. He’s not a pure passrusher and won’t be drafted specifically for that reason. But he is a highly effective player that can even play inside if needed. He will be a solid NFL contributor for a number of years. A 6-8 sack guy that you can’t run the ball against. That’s somebody I want on my team. Reminds me of Brian Robison. 

I highly doubt he will crack 5 sacks soaking wet. Sorry bro, he was beating on weak college kids, he doesn't have it against the cream of the crop and got HANDLED.

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Just now, osiruz said:

I highly doubt he will crack 5 sacks soaking wet. Sorry bro, he was beating on weak college kids, he doesn't have it against the cream of the crop and got HANDLED.

Huh? Soaking wet? What does that even mean? Allen is close to 300 pounds if you’re trying to knock his size. I don’t really care either, the Falcons aren’t drafting him unless he lasts until the 2nd, and he won’t. 

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29 minutes ago, osiruz said:

Watch senior bowl practices, he stunk it up something fierce. 

I think you may be judging Allen too harshly.  He really improved with his hand usage and disengaging from blockers last year.  Great instincts, great motor.  Dude had 100 tackles last year as a DE...lol.  Watch this highlight video

 

Edited by Falconsin2012
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33 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

I like all of these DTs but we need a 1T. McClain and Senat got run over. Grady did too when he played the nose. Quinn's only Top 10 Falcon defense featured a 6'3" 346 lb fire plug named Poe. There's only one 1T on that list. Dexter Lawrence. Buddy is 6'4" 340 lbs and can anchor a run defense. If we don't solve the 1T problem in free agency he should be the pick if he's still on the board. Just look at the final four teams this year. All fully capable of running you over. Quinn got run over in 2015, 2016 and 2018.

I think 1T is probably a good position to chase in FA. The market simply doesn't value them and we can pick up a space heater for cheap since we do need that for obvious running downs. But if the thought of Grady and Ed Oliver in base D doesn't get you excited, I don't know what will.

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5 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

I think you may be judging Allen too harshly.  He really improved with his hand usage and disengaging from defenders last year.  Great instincts, great motor.  Dude had 100 tackles last year as a DE...lol.  Watch this highlight video

 

He just doesn’t like him. It’s cool. I don’t like Lawrence. Other people do. 

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4 minutes ago, Falcanuck said:

He just doesn’t like him. It’s cool. I don’t like Lawrence. Other people do. 

I like both Lawrence and Allen.  Neither are perfect, but both can be very productive NFL players

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2 hours ago, Falcanuck said:

He's not a DT, but Zach Allen out of BC is a tremendous run defender from the DE position and has some pass rush ability.

 

2 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Allen at 285 on the edge has the best bull rush in college football...by far

Tell you something I learnt about Allen after watching those drills the guys got no plan when rushing the passer.If he thinks he’s going to run down the middle of NFL olineman and expect to be successful yeah good luck with that.

The dude needs to formulate a strategy when rushing.

Best edge guy I saw over those 3 days was LJ Collier that dude was giving olineman fits.Inside and Out the dude could be a sneaky riser in this draft.

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Another thing when they say this draft is deep with talent and guys that can do a job,well there is exactly that.

Id be happy to pick up a Daylon Mack Khaelin Sanders and the Gaines kid these 3 guys were all looked very good to me and there skill sets will be what we are looking for for mid round picks at DT.

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1 minute ago, kiwifalcon said:

 

Tell you something I learnt about Allen after watching those drills the guys got no plan when rushing the passer.If he thinks he’s going to run down the middle of NFL olineman and expect to be successful yeah good luck with that.

The dude needs to formulate a strategy when rushing.

Best edge guy I saw over those 3 days was LJ Collier that dude was giving olineman fits.Inside and Out the dude could be a sneaky riser in this draft.

Good inside info, Kiwi.  His tape hints he has a plan, but I didn’t watch any Senior Bowl reps.  100 tackles from a DE is impressive and hints at a relentless motor.

The video I posted above is pretty impressive.  He does not bend well, but he is immovable setting the edge.  Watch him dominate Clemson’s OL

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1 minute ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Good inside info, Kiwi.  His tape hints he has a plan, but I didn’t watch any Senior Bowl reps.  100 tackles from a DE is impressive and hints at a relentless motor.

The video I posted above is pretty impressive.  He does not bend well, but he is immovable setting the edge.  Watch him dominate Clemson’s OL

I’ll look man but if I’m honest I was disappointed in what I saw from him but I’ll do what you say and have a good look a what you mention.

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2 hours ago, g-dawg said:

We aren't taking Dexter Lawrence at #14 - I will almost guarantee that.  The DTackle needs to be a good run stopper but you don't burn a #14 pick on a run-stopping specialist that will only be on the field 30-40% of the time.

Sweat

Lindstrom

Dalvin Mack

 

Id be a okay with that!

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Just now, Matt_The Iceman_Ryan said:

Sweat

Lindstrom

Dalvin Mack

 

Id be a okay with that!

you need to watch more Jonah Wiilliams film and go back and watch the one you gave me again.    You're wrong.

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3 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

you need to watch more Jonah Wiilliams film and go back and watch the one you gave me again.    You're wrong.

Yep he’s so boring to watch he’s that good.

Thats the thing with him when I watch him technically he’s sound and just does his job.

Reminds me of Jake Mathews,If J.Williams falls and proves to be as advertised it’s a home run pick for us.

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