ket222

Can we afford Julio, Grady and one BIG TIME FA??

144 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

while it's not sexy due to the position - the best all-time draft pick so far would be Mike Kenn.   He was consistently great for 17 years and a 5x Pro-Bowler.    If he played for a glitzier team that won a lot he would be in the HOF - with Falcons, he gets no consideration which is a crime.

Matt Ryan will one-day overtake Mike Kenn but not yet as longevity is a big part of the "all-time Falcon" stuff.   As great as Deion was, he was a Falcon for 4-5 years, sorry that's not long enough.

Falcon Draft Picks - First Team All Pro & Pro Bowl Seasons

  • Claude Humphrey - 2 First Team All Pro & 6 Pro Bowls
  • Julio Jones - 2 First Team All Pro & 6 Pro Bowls
  • Mike Kenn - 2 First Team All Pro & 5 Pro Bowls
  • Bill Fralic - 2 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls
  • Deion Sanders - 2 First Team All Pro & 3 Pro Bowls
  • Tommy Nobis - 1 First Team All Pro & 5 Pro Bowls
  • Matt Ryan - 1 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls
  • Roddy White - 1 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls
  • Jeff Van Note - 0 First Team All Pro & 6 Pro Bowls
  • R.C. Thieleman - 1 First Team All Pro & 3 Pro Bowls
  • Keith Brooking - 0 First Team All Pro & 5 Pro Bowls
  • Alge Crumpler - 0 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls
  • William Andrews - 0 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls
  • Mike Vick - 0 First Team All Pro & 3 Pro Bowls
  • Gerald Riggs - 0 First Team All Pro & 3 Pro Bowls
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8 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Falcon Draft Picks - First Team All Pro & Pro Bowl Seasons

  • Claude Humphrey - 2 First Team All Pro & 6 Pro Bowls - great player in HOF - played in Philly as well
  • Julio Jones - 2 First Team All Pro & 6 Pro Bowls - great but will need a longer career longevity than I think he will have to be the ALL-TIME Falcon
  • Mike Kenn - 2 First Team All Pro & 5 Pro Bowls  ---Current BEST lifetime Falcon
  • Bill Fralic - 2 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls
  • Deion Sanders - 2 First Team All Pro & 3 Pro Bowls
  • Tommy Nobis - 1 First Team All Pro & 5 Pro Bowls
  • Matt Ryan - 1 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls ----should be much higher in best draft pick (which I know is not how you organized the list) - if he balls out for 7 more years, it won't be close.  Hopefully at least one Lombardi in those remaining yrs
  • Roddy White - 1 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls
  • Jeff Van Note - 0 First Team All Pro & 6 Pro Bowls
  • -------------Separation Line--------None below here should even be discussed as to all-time Falcon
  • R.C. Thieleman - 1 First Team All Pro & 3 Pro Bowls
  • Keith Brooking - 0 First Team All Pro & 5 Pro Bowls
  • Alge Crumpler - 0 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls
  • William Andrews - 0 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls
  • Mike Vick - 0 First Team All Pro & 3 Pro Bowls
  • Gerald Riggs - 0 First Team All Pro & 3 Pro Bowls

see above.

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26 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

while it's not sexy due to the position (Left Tackle) - the best all-time draft pick so far would be Mike Kenn.   He was consistently great for 17 years and a 5x Pro-Bowler (domination + longevity).    If he played for a glitzier team that won a lot he would be in the HOF - with Falcons, he gets no consideration which is a crime.

Matt Ryan will one-day overtake Mike Kenn but not yet as longevity is a big part of the "all-time Falcon" stuff.   As great as Deion was, he was a Falcon for 4-5 years, sorry that's not long enough.

Image result for mike kenn

I’d say Ryan being the MVP puts him head of the class...but Sanders & Julio are better football players.  Best value from a draft is Tuggle & Kenn

Edited by Falconsin2012

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1 minute ago, Falconsin2012 said:

I’d say Ryan being the MVP puts him head of the class...but Sanders & Julio are better football players.  Best value from a draft is Tuggle

Yeah "best value on draft pick" versus "best Falcon of all-time"  are two different discussions.   

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5 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

To me Ryan is #1 already. Not even close. His impact on the Falcons was more than Kenn, Nobis, Claude, Julio, Deion, Roddy, you name it. And he's still going.

yeah, that's understood.  I just don't like to give someone the mantel until they are closer to end of career.   QB will always have the most impact.

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Adding the round and pick in case this discussion shifts to best value:

Falcon Draft Picks - First Team All Pro & Pro Bowl Seasons

  • Claude Humphrey - 2 First Team All Pro & 6 Pro Bowls - 1st Round - Pick #3
  • Julio Jones - 2 First Team All Pro & 6 Pro Bowls - 1st Round - Pick #6
  • Mike Kenn - 2 First Team All Pro & 5 Pro Bowls - 1st Round - Pick #13 
  • Bill Fralic - 2 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls - 1st Round - Pick #2
  • Deion Sanders - 2 First Team All Pro & 3 Pro Bowls - 1st Round - Pick #5
  • Tommy Nobis - 1 First Team All Pro & 5 Pro Bowls - 1st Round - Pick #1
  • Matt Ryan - 1 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls - 1st Round - Pick #3
  • Roddy White - 1 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls - 1st Round - Pick #27
  • Jeff Van Note - 0 First Team All Pro & 6 Pro Bowls - 11th Round - Pick #262
  • R.C. Thieleman - 1 First Team All Pro & 3 Pro Bowls - 2nd Round - Pick #36
  • Keith Brooking - 0 First Team All Pro & 5 Pro Bowls - 1st Round - Pick #12
  • Alge Crumpler - 0 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls - 2nd Round - Pick #35
  • William Andrews - 0 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls - 3rd Round - Pick #79
  • Mike Vick - 0 First Team All Pro & 3 Pro Bowls - 1st Round - Pick #1
  • Gerald Riggs - 0 First Team All Pro & 3 Pro Bowls - 1st Round - Pick #9

Best value pick was Van Note by far. 11th rounder? Pick #262? 18 years as a Falcon? 6 Pro Bowls?

William Andrews, R.C. Thieleman and Alge Crumpler get honorable mention.

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QBs do have a lot more say in how a franchise goes but certain personalities and traits of a player can be judged in the same manner.

I mean I look at guys like Lawrence Taylor Ray Lewis and alike guys like that can be judged in the same manner as QBs and can have those exact effect you n a franchise like a dominant QB does.

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23 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

I’d say Ryan being the MVP puts him head of the class...but Sanders & Julio are better football players.  Best value from a draft is Tuggle & Kenn

Tuggle was a walk on undrafted free agent out of tiny Valdosta State, so he belongs in the best free agents discussion, with his five Pro Bowls and bone crushing hits. 

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9 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Tuggle was a walk on undrafted free agent out of tiny Valdosta State, so he belongs in the best free agents discussion, with his five Pro Bowls and bone crushing hits. 

I know.  But he came out of that draft class despite not being drafted

Edited by Falconsin2012

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38 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

To me Ryan is #1 already. Not even close. His impact on the Falcons was more than Kenn, Nobis, Claude, Julio, Deion, Roddy, you name it. And he's still going.

I say this with a straight face, Ryan is more valuable than any 2 players the Falcons have drafted.  Sure, Sanders & Julio combo is dynamic, but they don’t impact the game like Ryan.  So if I’m a new franchise and I can draft Julio & Sanders or Ryan, I’ll take the MVP without a second thought 

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17 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

I say this with a straight face, Ryan is more valuable than any 2 players the Falcons have drafted.  Sure, Sanders & Julio combo is dynamic, but they don’t impact the game like Ryan.  So if I’m a new franchise and I can draft Julio & Sanders or Ryan, I’ll take the MVP without a second thought 

Agree. GDawg is crowning Mike Kenn over Matt Ryan. Mainly because of longevity. Kenn played 11 years in the NFL before free agency started. Back when playing 15-20 years for a franchise was more common. Kenn didn't impact the Falcons like Ryan did. And Ryan is still going. Getting ready to start his 12th season. Crown him.

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1 hour ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Falcon Draft Picks - First Team All Pro & Pro Bowl Seasons

  • Claude Humphrey - 2 First Team All Pro & 6 Pro Bowls
  • Julio Jones - 2 First Team All Pro & 6 Pro Bowls
  • Mike Kenn - 2 First Team All Pro & 5 Pro Bowls
  • Bill Fralic - 2 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls
  • Deion Sanders - 2 First Team All Pro & 3 Pro Bowls
  • Tommy Nobis - 1 First Team All Pro & 5 Pro Bowls
  • Matt Ryan - 1 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls
  • Roddy White - 1 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls
  • Jeff Van Note - 0 First Team All Pro & 6 Pro Bowls
  • R.C. Thieleman - 1 First Team All Pro & 3 Pro Bowls
  • Keith Brooking - 0 First Team All Pro & 5 Pro Bowls
  • Alge Crumpler - 0 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls
  • William Andrews - 0 First Team All Pro & 4 Pro Bowls
  • Mike Vick - 0 First Team All Pro & 3 Pro Bowls
  • Gerald Riggs - 0 First Team All Pro & 3 Pro Bowls

Gonzo was an All-pro in 2012 and he cost us a 2nd round pick.

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1 minute ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Agree. GDawg is crowning Mike Kenn over Matt Ryan. Mainly because of longevity. Kenn played 11 years in the NFL before free agency started. He didn't impact the Falcons like Ryan did. And Ryan is still going. Getting ready to start his 12th season. Crown him.

It’s actually not even close...

The gap between Ryan and the 2nd best draft pick is probably similar to the gap between our 2nd best draft pick and our 30th best draft pick

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15 minutes ago, osiruz said:

Gonzo was an All-pro in 2012 and he cost us a 2nd round pick.

That's why I put him in the top five Falcon trades:

  • Best Trades - John Abraham, Tony Gonzales, Andre Rison, Chris Hinton, Asante Samuel
  • Best Free Agents - Jessie Tuggle, Michael Turner, Terrance Mathis, Alex Mack, Rod Coleman
  • Best Draft Picks - Matt Ryan, Tommy Nobis, Julio Jones, Deion Sanders, Roddy White

I should probably replace Roddy or Deion with Claude.

2 First Team All Pro & 6 Pro Bowls. As a Falcon. HOFer. As beater.

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On 1/24/2019 at 10:36 AM, atljbo said:

Ppl must stop comparing us to the Patriots... IDK how they do it .... NOOOOOO Team has been able to do it like the patriots.

 

You gotta pay your goid players ... Just like Jake last year .. Grady gotta get paid

They do it because Bill places system over players. THEN he goes and gets HIGH IQ players and not JUST athletes to make his system work by building thru the draft mostly and rounding out the edges with same high iq type players. As he learned from Tuna. That giants team was really high iq. 

 

I heard bill say himself that after Cleveland he would never bring in another “dumb” player to play for him. As I’ve said before this falcons team is probably the highest iq team we’ve ever had and Quinn follows that same philosophy of high iq players just like Bill Walsh, Bill Parcells, and Bill Bellichik, and Pete Carroll.

 

Fans like to see the the gawdy combine times but two things they never account for is heart and brain. The game is played from the neck up and If you can fill your team with 53 high iq athletes you’ll always be pretty good. Plus it also helps that they never have competition in there division. 

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4 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

They do it because Bill places system over players. THEN he goes and gets HIGH IQ players and not JUST athletes to make his system work by building thru the draft mostly and rounding out the edges with same high iq type players. As he learned from Tuna. That giants team was really high iq. 

 

I heard bill say himself that after Cleveland he would never bring in another “dumb” player to play for him. As I’ve said before this falcons team is probably the highest iq team we’ve ever had and Quinn follows that same philosophy of high iq players just like Bill Walsh, Bill Parcells, and Bill Bellichik, and Pete Carroll.

 

Fans like to see the the gawdy combine times but two things they never account for is heart and brain. The game is played from the neck up and If you can fill your team with 53 high iq athletes you’ll always be pretty good. Plus it also helps that they never have competition in there division. 

23v7zx.jpg

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6 hours ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

True, but I think we both know his cap hit is not going to be less than 10 mil.  I think his cap hit will be 13 +.

Not in his first year it wont be...year 2 ...yeah probably but dont be suprised if year one is closer vto Matthews....which is similar to the type of contract that grady will get IMO

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