ket222

Can we afford Julio, Grady and one BIG TIME FA??

144 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, atljbo said:

Well it's kinda different .. Our CBs has been our back bone (until this year) ... 

But we havnt been paying anybody on our DLINE or LB.... That's about to change tho... That's why I think it's a good chance Alford is gone.

 

Even TD has stated... We was able to pay our CBs because our LBS and DLINE has been under rookie contracts

Exactly.

You make decisions on roster turnover in connection with timing your own being paid; essentially FA in house.

The major factor being draft success and developing those picks before a vet is let go.

SEE:

Alford could be gone for Oliver $7.9M

Schraeder might be gone in some form (immediate savings or post-6/1 for more) in favor of bringing back Ty Sambrailo.

Meanwhile, Beasley is at a crossroads projecting forward after 2019. We may eat his 1 year option price and let him walk for compensation.

This means that we likely need to draft/develop an edge guy before 2020 season starts. IF we decided to move in over long-term contract. Bringing back Irvin on a rental would make sense in the short-term as we get to see if Takk starts producing more as well. Making base LDE/5T the only concern there and DT upgrade to McClain being the concern inside.

Grady won’t go somewhere unless he is demanding $20M etc. $15M “average” (read cap hits vary) while paying him a lot of guaranteed or as a signing bonus for his underpayment these last 4 years? Might be enough. Don’t know why he wouldn’t take a deal that gives him a lot up front. Sweetened and he isn’t vasyly underpaid at all.

After all Donald is a 3-4 DE and Mack is a pure DE. Not exactly 1T/3T fulltimers like Grady. Grady is not on their level overall, but indeed a PB caliber player. He should be paid accordingly. AD and Mack contracts should not reflect his asking price other than “how much less should I make”.

Julio’s contract change to be determined may yield cap gains in the short.

Edited by Ergo Proxy
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15 minutes ago, stizz said:

Alford and Schrader fell off a cliff last year. Makes much more sense to let two guys go that you can easily upgrade over than to have them occupy roster spots.

And it’s more so about allowing their present cap commitments to be better utilized in the rest of your roster shaping for 2019 and beyond.

If they can be restructured, they may at least get a chance to re-earn their job; the best case scenario for them remaining on the team.

Don't mind if they respond to the fire lit under them and help us win a championship either. ;)

Complacency and injuries/age. Pick one. See if it’s the former and not the latter.

Edited by Ergo Proxy
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3 hours ago, ya_boi_j said:

Personally, if the rumors are even close to being true, I pray to god they just let Grady walk. He's not worth that type of money at all. But the market is the market. Now i'm sure this isn't close to being accurate but if this is true then I'd tag him and see what he does this season before breaking the bank on him

http://legacynfl.boards.net/thread/7625/2019-franchise-tag-prices

That’s me. Very good player but not that level of pay.

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3 hours ago, atljbo said:

I agree.. I feel like  you  gotta build thru the draft.... FA is good to fill in places but with the way the cap is ... The top guys are no seeing FA .... Only guys teams feel like you are not worth the asking price you are looking for

You gotta build through free agency, draft and trade. All we've heard this year is we can't miss in the trenches. If you think we're gonna fix the trenches with a bunch of rookies in 2019, I say good luck to Dimi and Quinn. It could be their last year. We don't need to mess around in the trenches bro. Clear up cap space and plug the major holes in the first week of free agency. Don't be afraid to trade a 4th or 5th for a vet that knows how to play on day one. Build for the long term via the draft by going BPA. Stop falling in the need based chasm. That's what got us where we are today.

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3 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

That’s me. Very good player but not that level of pay.

We need to find another Jack Crowford or two. Hisproduction far exceeds his contract.  You win SB’s with players like him.  

Rams just advanced to the SB with their best offensive player on a bike.  Star power is so overvalued

Edited by Falconsin2012
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Just now, Falconsin2012 said:

We need to find another Jack Crowford or two. Hi production far exceeds his contract.  You win SB with players like him

Yeah, and there are Jack Crawford type players available in draft. Good  players. Grady is a good young player, but I don’t honestly put him in that top tier of game changing DTs. He’s come no where near replicating that SB balling out that he had. 

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Just now, MSalmon said:

Yeah, and there are Jack Crawford type players available in draft. Good  players. Grady is a good young player, but I don’t honestly put him in that top tier of game changing DTs. He’s come no where near replicating that SB balling out that he had. 

I would not have given Donald, Donald money

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6 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

We need to find another Jack Crowford or two. Hisproduction far exceeds his contract.  You win SB’s with players like him.  

Rams just advanced to the SB with their best offensive player on a bike.  Star power is so overvalued

Craw is great, what we need is someone to play for him on run downs, someone like Dexter Lawrence.

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18 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Exactly.

You make decisions on roster turnover in connection with timing your own being paid; essentially FA in house.

The major factor being draft success and developing those picks before a vet is let go.

SEE:

Alford could be gone for Oliver $7.9M

Schraeder might be gone in some form (immediate savings or post-6/1 for more) in favor of bringing back Ty Sambrailo.

Meanwhile, Beasley is at a crossroads projecting forward after 2019. We may eat his 1 year option price and let him walk for compensation.

This means that we likely need to draft/develop an edge guy before 2020 season starts. IF we decided to move in over long-term contract. Bringing back Irvin on a rental would make sense in the short-term as we get to see if Takk starts producing more as well. Making base LDE/5T the only concern there and DT upgrade to McClain being the concern inside.

Grady won’t go somewhere unless he is demanding $20M etc. $15M “average” (read cap hits vary) while paying him a lot of guaranteed or as a signing bonus for his underpayment these last 4 years? Might be enough. Don’t know why he wouldn’t take a deal that gives him a lot up front. Sweetened and he isn’t vasyly underpaid at all.

After all Donald is a 3-4 DE and Mack is a pure DE. Not exactly 1T/3T fulltimers like Grady. Grady is not on their level overall, but indeed a PB caliber player. He should be paid accordingly. AD and Mack contracts should not reflect his asking price other than “how much less should I make”.

Julio’s contract change to be determined may yield cap gains in the short.

You could be right. Kawann Short ended up roughly 16m plus after his 11 sack season but has not delivered on that level since. It’s just hard to tell with DTs. Grady is 25 and that has to be factored. Fletcher cox is the highest 43 DT at a 102m and 17m plus a year. But cox is 4 time pro bowl, 3 time second all pro and 1 time first team all pro.

Grady isn’t on that level in the least. Geno Atkins, whose sack totals are getting him into HOF discussion (71 total and 10 last year) signed a four year 62.5m extension. Is Grady worth that is the question? Will he reach Geno level

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11 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

I would not have given Donald, Donald money

I don’t think that I would have either. Rams were crap for a long time with Donald. His sacks really took off when they opened the check book and put Suh on that line. 

But I doubt we can afford to spend like Rams did

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11 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

If we plan on keeping Grady, Lawrence should be our guy if available

Rotation of Lawrence, and Senat would be sick on run downs and keeps Grady and Craw fresh for passing downs. Then just go out and sign a good RT like Darryl Williams, or Bobbie Massie and draft an OG like Chris Lindstrom.

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I got a feeling either Julio or Grady will get their feelings hurt this off season. Maybe both. The Falcons have got to make some tough decisions. You can't keep putting all of your eggs in one basket. You can't have one or two injuries,being so devastating to your team. 

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47 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

And it’s more so about allowing their present cap commitments to be better utilized in the rest of your roster shaping for 2019 and beyond.

If they can be restructured, they may at least get a chance to re-earn their job; the best case scenario for them remaining on the team.

Don't mind if they respond to the fire lit under them and help us win a championship either. ;)

Complacency and injuries/age. Pick one. See if it’s the former and not the latter.

The way TD and Quinn have said their positions are must upgrades, I think they've played their last downs here.

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4 hours ago, Stryka said:

Poe was solid, Clayborn was solid,  Hartwell and Edwards were trash.  Asante Samuel was had in a trade but he was a big part of our 2012 success. J. Abraham was the biggest addition on defense EVER.  Like Samuel....via trade though.  We haven't signed a big time stud in a minute.

The loss of Poe was as damaging, if not more so, to our defense last season than any injuries. 

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27 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

You could be right. Kawann Short ended up roughly 16m plus after his 11 sack season but has not delivered on that level since. It’s just hard to tell with DTs. Grady is 25 and that has to be factored. Fletcher cox is the highest 43 DT at a 102m and 17m plus a year. But cox is 4 time pro bowl, 3 time second all pro and 1 time first team all pro.

Grady isn’t on that level in the least. Geno Atkins, whose sack totals are getting him into HOF discussion (71 total and 10 last year) signed a four year 62.5m extension. Is Grady worth that is the question? Will he reach Geno level

Thats part of the concern when issuing out contacts.  Yes you are paying for the production given on the current scale.  Right now Grady got robbed for the 2018 season considering what he made.  The thing is we have to compensate him for how good he has been, how good is he now and what we project to be his level in the future.  Since drafting him, this dude has only gotten better and better.  Keeps pushing himself into the Elite echelon.  He's only got an arm in there right now but a few more years as good or better than this one and he is locked in.

I think Grady is worth 12 to 15.  I dont believe he is worth 15 mill a year yet but if Jake Matthews is worth that then maybe he is.  Jake also plays a premium position so the market value is normally higher.  I would love for Grady to settle at 4 or 5 years around 13 a piece.  5 yrs 65 million extension if we are lucky...if not it will likely be 5 yrs at 75 million.

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24 minutes ago, osiruz said:

Rotation of Lawrence, and Senat would be sick on run downs and keeps Grady and Craw fresh for passing downs. Then just go out and sign a good RT like Darryl Williams, or Bobbie Massie and draft an OG like Chris Lindstrom.

Grady can play run downs but Im all for rotating him out early for Senat and Lawrence and then letting him wreck havoc with Jack on passing downs.

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1 minute ago, thanat0s said:

The loss of Poe was as damaging, if not more so, to our defense last season than any injuries. 

Agreed.  Not only Poe but also A. Rubin who was a space eater and very good run defender.  We let go all the Beef and replaced them with virtually nothing.

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1 hour ago, Stryka said:

Thats part of the concern when issuing out contacts.  Yes you are paying for the production given on the current scale.  Right now Grady got robbed for the 2018 season considering what he made.  The thing is we have to compensate him for how good he has been, how good is he now and what we project to be his level in the future.  Since drafting him, this dude has only gotten better and better.  Keeps pushing himself into the Elite echelon.  He's only got an arm in there right now but a few more years as good or better than this one and he is locked in.

I think Grady is worth 12 to 15.  I dont believe he is worth 15 mill a year yet but if Jake Matthews is worth that then maybe he is.  Jake also plays a premium position so the market value is normally higher.  I would love for Grady to settle at 4 or 5 years around 13 a piece.  5 yrs 65 million extension if we are lucky...if not it will likely be 5 yrs at 75 million.

All fair points. Grady is still ascending. I don’t want to lose him

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9 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

All fair points. Grady is still ascending. I don’t want to lose him

He is still ascending. If we pay him $15M per now ... at the end of a 5 year contract $15M per will be what average DTs make and we'll be 'saving' money at that time. So if he's not worth $15M today he sure as heck will be in 2-3 years as DT salaries continue to go up. The FO can make the numbers work. 

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6 hours ago, 1989Fan said:

Mack, Coleman and Turner are the only great (not just good like Dahl, Clabo, etc) FA pick ups i recall in the past 20 years. 

Man, Coleman was a beast. That guy caved in the middle with pretty much no help. 

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6 hours ago, Stryka said:

Yea I think he was talking defensively.  How could I not put Rod Coleman up there.  Dude was 10 sacks period if he was healthy.  A great signing from Oakland.  So then if we rank them.  J. Abraham, R. Coleman and L. Milloy top 3 defensive additions while T. Gonzalez, A. Mack, and M. Turner are our 3 best offensive???

Curious to your thoughts..

Matt Bryant? 

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I'd be happy with a Grady Jackson type signing at DT. Bit of a one trick pony, but it was a darn fine trick.

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7 hours ago, ket222 said:

Let's assume that we can only keep Julio and Grady with worst case scenario contracts - basically, not getting Grady for 10 million but more like 16 million; and getting Julio for a high end contract.  

Will we be able to afford one of the big time free agents for the Offensive line?  or are we stuck with a couple mid level talent FAs?  

I assume we can't keep coleman and alford since we have to pay so much for Julio and Grady?

Well we're not getting Grady for 10 mil, so that settles that...

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5 hours ago, g-dawg said:

Patriots will draft late again but they have TWELVE draft picks - 12!!!

YES, Patriots miss on a ton of picks - but they have a lot of picks!   Also let players walk more than most teams.

Think about this - Belicheck and Brady won their first SuperBowl together 18yrs ago.  Belicheck has likely churned that roster at every position 5+ times (except QB).

Simply disgustingly amazing.

Billy Check told Dimi he'd be crazy to trade two firsts, a second and two fourths for Julio. Dimi did it anyway. Bad move. Could have solved a DE, OG and RB problem. Turrible move. Eight years later with Julio in tow we have four non winning seasons and are comin off a 7-9 campaign with no Lombardi and getting ready to sign him up for mo money at 30 years old. I wonder what Billy Check would do at this juncture.

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