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Ed Oliver

101 posts in this topic

 

10 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Tried to push like more than once it won’t let me lol.

Im with you we are reading from the same hymn book.

Preach.

Lol...Yea bro.  I pretty much agreed with most of what you said.  We may differ a tad on some details but overall I think the fanbase is all onboard about fixing the trenches.  HOW its done is up for interpretation.  I think we need to invest heavily on a 2 to 3 yr deal for a Brandon Graham or Sheldon Richardson.  If they are 2 expensive then we need to look at Trey Flowers or maybe kick the bucket on J. Hankins who still is very effective vs the run.

Edited by Stryka
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18 minutes ago, Smiler11 said:

I disagree. Again I think you're pigeonholing him based on his size. I think he could play either the 1 or 3 tech in this defense. 

Yea, Donald plays 1T and 5T, but that's not where he wins or is his bread and butter and what gets him paid. I don't care about what he does ~10% of the time, I'm focused on where he wins, which is 3T. If we draft him, I trust DQ more than myself, but I will be very cautious in terms of my optimism. 

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3 hours ago, A-TowN.- said:

Like I said, I’m a Simmons fan over Oliver, but I’m telling you Oliver will have an insane combine. 

The fact I keep hearing about depth and that this pick should pretty much be a no-brainer makes me extra nervous. I feel like there's already tunnel vision on 1 or 2 guys and in a deep draft TD will burn a good pick moving up to get his target.

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16 minutes ago, Summerhill said:

Mebane and Bryant were 3rd and 4th rounders. If we're trying to find players like them, we should be using those picks on them. A 1st round pick needs to be a different kind of player. 

Should be a special guy.  The issue is that some people feel Oliver is that guy, some think Simmons is it, some think Gary is the best athlete coming out.  Quinn likes to be able to shape and mold guys so that's a factor in the draft.  Collins, Debo, Kazee, Rico, Alford...all guys who were not finished products but had the talent and potential to be what Quinn envisioned.  I mean this guy turned 2 5th round CBs into 2 high quality starting FS.

I want a stud.  IDC if its the 340 lbs monster that can help vs pass rush or the 285 lbs DT who can play base DE and still hold point at DT.

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5 minutes ago, Stryka said:

I want a stud.  IDC if its the 340 lbs monster that can help vs pass rush or the 285 lbs DT who can play base DE and still hold point at DT.

The league has shown there's not great value in elite 340 lb DTs. Dontari Poe is a stud and on his third team. Haloti Ngata is on his third team. Star Lotulelei two teams in six seasons. 

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15 minutes ago, Pacific_Falcon said:

The fact I keep hearing about depth and that this pick should pretty much be a no-brainer makes me extra nervous. I feel like there's already tunnel vision on 1 or 2 guys and in a deep draft TD will burn a good pick moving up to get his target.

Man I really hope we doesn’t waste any picks. If anything, move down and get more picks. This is a deep draft for sure. I want Simmons and if we can’t, trade back and get some picks. Bunch of starters to be had on day 2 of the draft. 

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On 1/22/2019 at 10:22 AM, Stryka said:

He looks to be more in the Micheal Bennett type of guy. A strong base DE who can slip inside in nickel. Rashan Gary is another guy who could provide the same. We dont need 3 of the 250 lbs speed rushers. We need s big DE who is stout vs run as well. 

Gary is mocked at #2 in the latest mocks

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Former ESPN senior sportswriter John Clayton did a mock draft yesterday that was in the Washington Post.

He doesn't have Ed Oliver going in the first at all :huh::huh::huh: and has us taking Clemson DT Christian Wilkins.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/01/22/nfl-mock-draft-kyler-murray-goes-no-redskins-first-round-projection/?utm_term=.abbb7416cfac

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If we did draft Oliver, is he athletic enough to play base defensive end and slide inside on passing downs? We could then look to add another defensive tackle to play base. Just a hypothetical.

I am dreaming of a Takk, Grady, Oliver, and Beasley pass rushing line..

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4 hours ago, Summerhill said:

The league has shown there's not great value in elite 340 lb DTs. Dontari Poe is a stud and on his third team. Haloti Ngata is on his third team. Star Lotulelei two teams in six seasons. 

Idk....Poe has been effective everywhere he has been. A probowler a couple times. Seems he may have regressed as a panther. Ngata was a perennial all pro for a handful of years in Baltimore. He was even good in DET but age has caught him. 

Lets not undervalue the run stuffer. When we had 2 big run stuffers we had a top 10 D with Rubin and Poe.  Look at the top Run defenses and what do you see?? Baltimore, Philly, New Orleans, Chicago etc etc....they all have plenty of beef on the inside. They not rolling out 2 sub 300 pounders to stop the run. 

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2 hours ago, k-train said:

Former ESPN senior sportswriter John Clayton did a mock draft yesterday that was in the Washington Post.

He doesn't have Ed Oliver going in the first at all :huh::huh::huh: and has us taking Clemson DT Christian Wilkins.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/01/22/nfl-mock-draft-kyler-murray-goes-no-redskins-first-round-projection/?utm_term=.abbb7416cfac

The concern is real. Its still early but if he shows up 6'1 280 lbs he may drop even with a good combine. I dont see him making it out of the 1st still. Thats crazy. 

Wilkins fits next to Grady. Big enough. Quick. Leader. Workmanlike attitude. 

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5 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

 

3 the Falcons in terms of needs along the dline need a defensive replacement for McLain and a base end to replace Shelby and or bring him back.

 

Can Oliver, Simmons or Wilkins be thet player??

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37 minutes ago, Fernando C. said:

Can Oliver, Simmons or Wilkins be thet player??

Put a gun to my head I’d take Simmons.I think you get similar power to Oliver with the nuanced of Wilkins.

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10 hours ago, Stryka said:

The concern is real. Its still early but if he shows up 6'1 280 lbs he may drop even with a good combine. I dont see him making it out of the 1st still. Thats crazy. 

Wilkins fits next to Grady. Big enough. Quick. Leader. Workmanlike attitude. 

See I don't understand why Wilkins is a fit but Oliver isn't? Oliver is a far better run defender than Wilkins and has experience playing over the center. Wilkins is an out and out 3 tech.

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A large majority of me thinks Oliver will be a stud, but a small part of me is worried he will be a bust, due to his weight. Many point to Donald, but Donald carried an extra 15-20 lbs, and had monster sack numbers. If he isn't a bust, I am also worried that Oliver is going to be a one trick pony, and that being an undersized DT that is just simply a stout run defender. I would much rather have Rashan Gary than Oliver. Gary has showed major flashes to be a 'Michael Bennett' type player in this league, where he can stop the run and rush the passer from the DE and DT position. If Gary is there at 14, and we have our OL situation planned out, than I would be ecstatic with Gary. Dude is going to be one of those players that has a much better pro career, than college career. He is so young as well, and is simply a monster. He's light on his feet, and a freak athlete for his size. His ceiling is probably the biggest of any DL in this draft, along with Quinnen Williams. 

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16 hours ago, Stryka said:

Should be a special guy.  The issue is that some people feel Oliver is that guy, some think Simmons is it, some think Gary is the best athlete coming out.  Quinn likes to be able to shape and mold guys so that's a factor in the draft.  Collins, Debo, Kazee, Rico, Alford...all guys who were not finished products but had the talent and potential to be what Quinn envisioned.  I mean this guy turned 2 5th round CBs into 2 high quality starting FS.

I want a stud.  IDC if its the 340 lbs monster that can help vs pass rush or the 285 lbs DT who can play base DE and still hold point at DT.

Good point. The good news is we’re gonna get a stud at pick 14. 

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3 hours ago, Smiler11 said:

See I don't understand why Wilkins is a fit but Oliver isn't? Oliver is a far better run defender than Wilkins and has experience playing over the center. Wilkins is an out and out 3 tech.

Wilkins ability to defeat 1 on 1 blocks is special to me.  Wilkins always stepped up in big games. Wilkins played 4 years in the ACC and was a 2 time champ.  I just believe Wilkins size and ability translate better to the NFL.  He is a 3 tech but he played some 1 tech at Clemson and even some base end in spots.

Oliver dominated weaker competition and until I see what he shows up like at the combine, I cant just go off tape.  He is disruptive but I watched some tape on him and it seems like if he isn't knifing into the backfield for a TFL he isn't really stout against the run.  His penetration is impressive but him holding the POA isn't great.  Houston's HC said that they utilized Oliver's size and quickness best by always slanting the DL.  This creates lanes and angles to cut down ball carriers.  In the NFL, you wont always be attacking at an angle.  Sometimes you gotta man up and throw a guy our of your way.  Oliver has to show me he can get by NFL caliber guards at 285lbs.  Rod Coleman an ex falcon great could do it,  multiple double digit sack seasons from DT position.  Wilkins is a safe pick IMO.

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3 hours ago, LaurentRobinsonDaGawd said:

A large majority of me thinks Oliver will be a stud, but a small part of me is worried he will be a bust, due to his weight. Many point to Donald, but Donald carried an extra 15-20 lbs, and had monster sack numbers. If he isn't a bust, I am also worried that Oliver is going to be a one trick pony, and that being an undersized DT that is just simply a stout run defender. I would much rather have Rashan Gary than Oliver. Gary has showed major flashes to be a 'Michael Bennett' type player in this league, where he can stop the run and rush the passer from the DE and DT position. If Gary is there at 14, and we have our OL situation planned out, than I would be ecstatic with Gary. Dude is going to be one of those players that has a much better pro career, than college career. He is so young as well, and is simply a monster. He's light on his feet, and a freak athlete for his size. His ceiling is probably the biggest of any DL in this draft, along with Quinnen Williams. 

Ive leaned towards Gary for a while now for the exact reasons mentioned. 6'5 athlete with ability to add to his frame.  Probably best athlete at DT coming out the draft.  Led a top 5 Michigan defense 2 years in a row.  They were #1 going into the season finale vs OSU.  Gary fills 2 needs.  He can play base DE which gets Vic off the field on 1st down and then he can play next to Grady in Nickel or Dime.  Of course that spot would be a time share with Grady, Jack and Senat but it would make for a versatile rotation.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Stryka said:

Ive leaned towards Gary for a while now for the exact reasons mentioned. 6'5 athlete with ability to add to his frame.  Probably best athlete at DT coming out the draft.  Led a top 5 Michigan defense 2 years in a row.  They were #1 going into the season finale vs OSU.  Gary fills 2 needs.  He can play base DE which gets Vic off the field on 1st down and then he can play next to Grady in Nickel or Dime.  Of course that spot would be a time share with Grady, Jack and Senat but it would make for a versatile rotation.

 

 

I prefer Gary over Oliver. He is a stout athlete with great length. It also adds a jumbo DE to the mix besides Crawford and is an upgrade over anything we ever had in Shelby.

ferrell has a great frame as well. I’m also digging Jaylon Ferguson. He’s already a 6’5” 270 pounder with violent hands and he did dominate at a smaller school as well as showing up against bigger schools that LA Tech played.

For that matter, I’d rather have a Sweat than an Oliver. Long and athletic edge.

if we go DT I’m with the bigger and proven DTs like Wilkins. I just think that type pick, or some of the pass rushers I mentioned is a more NFL ready product and is less risk. 

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34 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

I prefer Gary over Oliver. He is a stout athlete with great length. It also adds a jumbo DE to the mix besides Crawford and is an upgrade over anything we ever had in Shelby.

ferrell has a great frame as well. I’m also digging Jaylon Ferguson. He’s already a 6’5” 270 pounder with violent hands and he did dominate at a smaller school as well as showing up against bigger schools that LA Tech played.

For that matter, I’d rather have a Sweat than an Oliver. Long and athletic edge.

if we go DT I’m with the bigger and proven DTs like Wilkins. I just think that type pick, or some of the pass rushers I mentioned is a more NFL ready product and is less risk. 

No doubt bro.  I simply prefer the old school protypical DE that is 6'4 and 275 lbs.  That frame usually means good long arms, solid base for anchoring but also explosive and quick.   M. Strahan for an older comparison. 

Im getting on board with Jaylon Ferguson...he has the size and tools already.  Is he at the Senior Bowl?  I couldn't recall if I read something about him.

Im pretty much sold on any of the Clemson guys.  I think they benefitted from playing with each but I think they all have unique ability and talent.  Ferrell has the size and work ethic even if he isn't the quickest twitch athlete.  Wilkins seems like the safe pick due to his NFL size and ability.  Lawrence will have intrigue from the 3-4 teams but also 4-3 guys like us looking for a run plugging pocket crasher.

I witnessed Sweat a few times being a big SEC fan.  He looks legit and is still getting better after 2 good years.  He is 6'6 and kinda reminds me of Randy Gregory but a lil thicker.

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57 minutes ago, Stryka said:

No doubt bro.  I simply prefer the old school protypical DE that is 6'4 and 275 lbs.  That frame usually means good long arms, solid base for anchoring but also explosive and quick.   M. Strahan for an older comparison. 

Im getting on board with Jaylon Ferguson...he has the size and tools already.  Is he at the Senior Bowl?  I couldn't recall if I read something about him.

Im pretty much sold on any of the Clemson guys.  I think they benefitted from playing with each but I think they all have unique ability and talent.  Ferrell has the size and work ethic even if he isn't the quickest twitch athlete.  Wilkins seems like the safe pick due to his NFL size and ability.  Lawrence will have intrigue from the 3-4 teams but also 4-3 guys like us looking for a run plugging pocket crasher.

I witnessed Sweat a few times being a big SEC fan.  He looks legit and is still getting better after 2 good years.  He is 6'6 and kinda reminds me of Randy Gregory but a lil thicker. 

Yeah, Jaylon is at senior bowl. I read the Falcons talked to him. He’s a man beast and like Davenport after combine could shoot into first round. He’s thick. Strahan thick with long limbs. Has that protypical DE that can play either side. I think we need that to mix in with these shorter speed guys that get twisted up at timesI still think of that NY Giants SB teams with that four deep pass rushing group of all shapes, sizes and speed and power killing BRADY!

Ferrell will grow into that JUSTIN Smith type of big DE. Sweat is an athletic marvel. I bet he tests crazy good at combine.

the Clemson DTs are good. I also like Demarcus Christmas and some other mid round guys that are thick, powerful and clog the gaps, 

im not anti-Oliver but he is under sized and unlike Jaylon (diffferent position obviously) he didn’t dominate lesser competition in pass rush. I know stats aren’t everything, but you would think closer to Aaron Donald numbers in that AAC. He also got by a lot on power against OL that won’t be on even practice squads. You see him pushed past the qb on film too. Also remember Donald played in the ACC and dominated.  You hate doing player comps but you have to with Oliver type guys.

im down with bigger and rugged DTs, if we want more interior pass rush sign Gerald McCoy. 

But the more I look at this draft, I’m not convinced we’re going DT early. I’m hinting edge

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keep the 3rd, use a future 2nd...we might as well go all in on this draft. Another sub par season and Blank is cleaning house

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3 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

Yeah, Jaylon is at senior bowl. I read the Falcons talked to him. He’s a man beast and like Davenport after combine could shoot into first round. He’s thick. Strahan thick with long limbs. Has that protypical DE that can play either side. I think we need that to mix in with these shorter speed guys that get twisted up at timesI still think of that NY Giants SB teams with that four deep pass rushing group of all shapes, sizes and speed and power killing BRADY!

Ferrell will grow into that JUSTIN Smith type of big DE. Sweat is an athletic marvel. I bet he tests crazy good at combine.

the Clemson DTs are good. I also like Demarcus Christmas and some other mid round guys that are thick, powerful and clog the gaps, 

im not anti-Oliver but he is under sized and unlike Jaylon (diffferent position obviously) he didn’t dominate lesser competition in pass rush. I know stats aren’t everything, but you would think closer to Aaron Donald numbers in that AAC. He also got by a lot on power against OL that won’t be on even practice squads. You see him pushed past the qb on film too. Also remember Donald played in the ACC and dominated.  You hate doing player comps but you have to with Oliver type guys.

im down with bigger and rugged DTs, if we want more interior pass rush sign Gerald McCoy. 

But the more I look at this draft, I’m not convinced we’re going DT early. I’m hinting edge

Ok coo.  Yea Jaylon is the guy I read about.  He is on the rise.  Great build and usually the smaller school guys come in with that chip on their shoulder to prove they belong. 

Yea I recall vividly how they controlled the game.  Osi, Strahan, Justin Tuck.  That was perfect storm.  Tuck is another one of those big DEs who slid inside on pass downs.  They used to get off!

I agree with the Clemson guys, they all have unique attributes that will make them successful in the NFL.....that is unless they fall under the Clemson DE curse.  Their DEs just haven't worked out.  From Gaines Adams to Philip Merling. Beasley has a chance to still turn it around but Clemson DEs haven't been crap in the NFL.

Im down with Gerald McCoy on a stopgap tip.  I don't think he has a long future here but maybe for a run or 2.  I would want his snap cap down a bit, he seems to be more effective with less now.

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2 hours ago, Stryka said:

Ok coo.  Yea Jaylon is the guy I read about.  He is on the rise.  Great build and usually the smaller school guys come in with that chip on their shoulder to prove they belong. 

Yea I recall vividly how they controlled the game.  Osi, Strahan, Justin Tuck.  That was perfect storm.  Tuck is another one of those big DEs who slid inside on pass downs.  They used to get off!

I agree with the Clemson guys, they all have unique attributes that will make them successful in the NFL.....that is unless they fall under the Clemson DE curse.  Their DEs just haven't worked out.  From Gaines Adams to Philip Merling. Beasley has a chance to still turn it around but Clemson DEs haven't been crap in the NFL.

Im down with Gerald McCoy on a stopgap tip.  I don't think he has a long future here but maybe for a run or 2.  I would want his snap cap down a bit, he seems to be more effective with less now.

No argument on anything you said. I do believe McCoy will be interesting to watch in FA if cut by bucs but he’s a 12m cap hit and on a team that is essentially about to be rebuilt. Bowles is their DC, right?

suh got 14m for a one year deal, so if we want McCoy I’d reckon we have to open checkbook. Although, I think he’d be worth it. He’s the type FA signing that can propel a team to the next level

id gladly cut brooks reed and Alford to pay for McCoy

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