falcons007

Falcons DL busts... Vic Beasley leads the pack of DL.

68 posts in this topic

Dee ford is the perfect example of why I don't want to give up on a talent like Vic Beasley.

 

Dee Ford:

2014:1.5 sacks

2015: 4 sacks

2016: 10 sacks

2017: 2 sacks

 

I remember 99% of KC fans was saying Cut him ... Dude was a bum...PFF killed him.... He comes in this year and has an all pro year this year.... Now everybody want him 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, atljbo said:

Dee ford is the perfect example of why I don't want to give up on a talent like Vic Beasley.

 

Dee Ford:

2014:1.5 sacks

2015: 4 sacks

2016: 10 sacks

2017: 2 sacks

 

I remember 99% of KC fans was saying Cut him ... Dude was a bum...PFF killed him.... He comes in this year and has an all pro year this year.... Now everybody want him 

Nope. Dee Ford missed 10 games in 2017 after hurting his back and trying to play through it. The thought was let Dee get healthy and maybe he can bounce back to his 2015 level, which he did. 

That's the same thought we had with 2018 Vic. We chalked his 2017 up to him being out of position. Put him back in the positions he was in 2016 and hopefully we'll get closer to his 2016 production. Nope, he gave you 2017 again. THAT'S why it's not comparable. Throw in Ford's cap hit being roughly 2/3 of what Vic's is set to be and it's just not the same. Vic didn't respond and people are trying to remain optimistic blaming it on coaching but you can just turn on the tape and see how Vic consistently has no plan on Sundays. Even if you blame it on Freeney, him leaving shouldn't have made Vic "lose it". If that's the case, I'm definitely letting him walk because he can't retain knowledge and skill. I don't think that's the case. 

mqg96, Ergo Proxy, ZoneOne01 and 1 other like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, putnam6 said:

Bottom line you keep #44 at a reasonable price it gives you the luxury of drafting or FA another position of need. Aint gonna lie want an interior DL to pair with Grady, early but lately been looking at OL early and try to find defensive line beef later as it seems deeper. If Cody Ford's there it would difficult to pass on him, some draft gurus are high on him, like 10 year starter etc. Also what about Anthony Barr as a possible FA, always liked his game.

PS would like to add that was Dante Fowler that pressured Brees into the late game Int. Sometimes its about change of scenery, growing into the NFL game or just playing with better coaches and teamates. So should Vic get a better offer they had better have contingency plans.might have to find somebody that as struggled and may be had for cheap but still be effective

I am open to keeping Vic at the right price - but not married to the idea.   Agree w/ you that I would absolutely look at other alternatives as well like a Dante Fowler whom the Falcons were rumored to be interested in most before that 2015 draft.   Fowler has a little more sand in his pants but not as fast.

I'm not a fan of the "averaging" Vic's stats over his career.   With sack totals of 4, 15.5, 5, 5 - I would like to play a game of "which one of these is not like the other, which one is not quite the same.   Vic has only missed two games in those 4 years as well.    If you sign Vic hoping he is more than a 5-7 sack per year guy that is just average player outside of sacks - then you will be disappointed.   Vic isn't a beast at TFLs, run defense nor pass coverage as well - he has some plusses outside of passrush but nothing spectacular.

If Beasley wanted to go short term, he is worth more per year - maybe 2 years, $14mm - but if he wanted to go longer term, I wouldn't offer him more than like 4yrs and $22mm.    Don't overpay for a guy that has been a disappointment.

m2Falcons and Dutty Ole Bird like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Falcons aren’t keeping Vic long-term if he doesn’t get more results before hitting UFA. Regardless of the reason one may think from the outside; as to why he hasn’t been as effective, he will need to put up or another team is going to value him more on scheme alone.

Maybe if we played with the level of scoring offense from 2016 and that turnover savvy D that was missing in 2017(worse unit than given credit), then Vic would have more sacks already and overall sustained usage.

Consistency boils down to his play and limits in the Quinn system. He doesn’t play base DE at a high enough level and when his snap count/role was reduced after Irvin got here he started producing more to the percentages(read effectiveness).

What is his success rate rushing? What is his current role? What will other teams offer him AND/OR he want if he were to hit UFA?

Just objective and sober.

I actually really like Vic and believe he has a place. Just isn’t gonna matter if the stars don’t align with his chances beyond 2019.

Unless he just wants to stay here! Never been on that stupid cut Vic train outright. The only thought of that was due to the weighty decision for his new cap hit for 2019 making him as of now our 4th highest commitment in space. Is he worth that? Nope. That’s why even if it’s a one year buy time scenario it’s hard to see both sides agreeing on his value as a Falcon without Beasley simply doing more instead of relying on being a situational star.

One year Falcons eat the cost. Would Atlanta offer him several years at $13M+ per? That’s the point.

Preston Smith would be awesome

I think and hope 4/40/28 is our top dollar on beasley That's overpaying but will be par in 2 years

Edited by ATLSlobberKnockers
falcons007 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Presumably Means replaces Reed’s current role for savings.

Who can play base DE other than Means on the Left side? Does Vic keep his reduced role? Shelby had some value there rotating with Reed. Too bad he couldn’t stay healthy here. Figure we may need more flexibility replacing his loss; in addition to DT turnover with McClain likely not back in favor of a hoped for upgrade. This also presumes Irvin/VB are 100% back to resolve edge rushers

Who else can play 5T other than Crawford?

Crawford can line up. Plus we can draft another DT or sign one worth signing.

Ergo Proxy and falcons007 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Falcons aren’t keeping Vic long-term if he doesn’t get more results before hitting UFA. Regardless of the reason one may think from the outside; as to why he hasn’t been as effective, he will need to put up or another team is going to value him more on scheme alone.

Maybe if we played with the level of scoring offense from 2016 and that turnover savvy D that was missing in 2017(worse unit than given credit), then Vic would have more sacks already and overall sustained usage.

Consistency boils down to his play and limits in the Quinn system. He doesn’t play base DE at a high enough level and when his snap count/role was reduced after Irvin got here he started producing more to the percentages(read effectiveness).

What is his success rate rushing? What is his current role? What will other teams offer him AND/OR he want if he were to hit UFA?

Just objective and sober.

I actually really like Vic and believe he has a place. Just isn’t gonna matter if the stars don’t align with his chances beyond 2019.

Unless he just wants to stay here! Never been on that stupid cut Vic train outright. The only thought of that was due to the weighty decision for his new cap hit for 2019 making him as of now our 4th highest commitment in space. Is he worth that? Nope. That’s why even if it’s a one year buy time scenario it’s hard to see both sides agreeing on his value as a Falcon without Beasley simply doing more instead of relying on being a situational star.

One year Falcons eat the cost. Would Atlanta offer him several years at $13M+ per? That’s the point.

This board has never recovered from calling Vic a bust from rookie year. Even in 2016, people weren’t ready to accept they were wrong. The way I see it, Vic will have a very productive career in NFL with right fit. He is gonna get paid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, falcons007 said:

You can’t say outlier based on a rookie season, one season he played out of position. I will wait for some one not named Marquand Manuel using Vic before calling outliers. Richards and Freeney coaches up Vic in 2016.

Works for me.  Hope those coaches are on the staff.  I want Vic to be great but I am less encouraged that going into his 5th year we're still treating him like a rookie that needs to be coached up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, vel said:

Nope. Dee Ford missed 10 games in 2017 after hurting his back and trying to play through it. The thought was let Dee get healthy and maybe he can bounce back to his 2015 level, which he did. 

That's the same thought we had with 2018 Vic. We chalked his 2017 up to him being out of position. Put him back in the positions he was in 2016 and hopefully we'll get closer to his 2016 production. Nope, he gave you 2017 again. THAT'S why it's not comparable. Throw in Ford's cap hit being roughly 2/3 of what Vic's is set to be and it's just not the same. Vic didn't respond and people are trying to remain optimistic blaming it on coaching but you can just turn on the tape and see how Vic consistently has no plan on Sundays. Even if you blame it on Freeney, him leaving shouldn't have made Vic "lose it". If that's the case, I'm definitely letting him walk because he can't retain knowledge and skill. I don't think that's the case. 

They may have had his position listed as defensive end....but he was still used more in space than most ends.

He was even used as a spy vs the giants on Barkley.

And they still had hin shadowing the qb ar the LOS a great deal.

So while his hand may have been in the dirt more....he was used similar to how he was in 2017

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, falcons007 said:

 

Well he isn’t bust. Typing on phone can be pain. 

The issue I have with Beasley is inconsistency.. I'm sure vic playing a year at lb'er didn't help as a pass rusher.. But I honestly believed he'd show back up this past season which imo he never did 

falcons007 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stats are stats but watching beasley play Paddy cake at the LOS is something I can't watch another year of

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Vandy said:

So that one season doesn’t count?

I guess 1 out of four ain't bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

again....   almost 25% of Beasley's sacks over 4 seasons, came in two games; rushing ONLY from the LDE while going against 3rd string RTs

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, atljbo said:

Dee ford is the perfect example of why I don't want to give up on a talent like Vic Beasley.

 

Dee Ford:

2014:1.5 sacks

2015: 4 sacks

2016: 10 sacks

2017: 2 sacks

 

I remember 99% of KC fans was saying Cut him ... Dude was a bum...PFF killed him.... He comes in this year and has an all pro year this year.... Now everybody want him 

 

12 hours ago, vel said:

Nope. Dee Ford missed 10 games in 2017 after hurting his back and trying to play through it. The thought was let Dee get healthy and maybe he can bounce back to his 2015 level, which he did. 

That's the same thought we had with 2018 Vic. We chalked his 2017 up to him being out of position. Put him back in the positions he was in 2016 and hopefully we'll get closer to his 2016 production. Nope, he gave you 2017 again. THAT'S why it's not comparable. Throw in Ford's cap hit being roughly 2/3 of what Vic's is set to be and it's just not the same. Vic didn't respond and people are trying to remain optimistic blaming it on coaching but you can just turn on the tape and see how Vic consistently has no plan on Sundays. Even if you blame it on Freeney, him leaving shouldn't have made Vic "lose it". If that's the case, I'm definitely letting him walk because he can't retain knowledge and skill. I don't think that's the case. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/kckingdom.com/2017/11/18/kansas-city-chiefs-dee-ford-not-working/amp/

sounds familar.

Dutty Ole Bird likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now