Falcons Fan MVP

Do you think Matt Ryan is better than Peyton Manning, Dan Marino and Jim Kelly?

186 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

Let me be clear: Brady is the unquestioned GOAT. There's no denigrating what he is or what he's accomplished. 

That being said, I think you're drastically underrating the possibility (likelihood) that Tom Brady's "taken less money" narrative fails to take into account the compensation he has received from the Pats/Kraft family outside of football. Even the most ardent Pats fans are pretty open to that possibility. We know a little bit about these sorts of side deals but I'm willing to bet there's more there. And thats not to say they're "cheating" or anything like that. Again, theres no denigrating what they have accomplished, IMO. But if I had to guess, Tom Brady (or an entity in which Tom Brady owns a considerable stake) receives income/revenue from the stakeholders who run the Patriots (ie the Kraft Family). We dont have all the details other than this report: https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/12/19/patriots-pay-business-owned-tom-brady-and-partner-with-dubious-past/C4zMzcPDgU62WMMg10qeBL/story.html but my guess is that these details are the tip of the iceberg. 

Gronkowski is obviously a different issue that has its own set of circumstances. None of those circumstances, or the circumstances of  Tom Brady's career, get anywhere near lessening the absurd effectiveness of how Belichick runs his machine. And though he's worked with multiple coordinators, Belichick is a huge driver of what they do in all three facets of the game. And Josh McDaniels has been part of the equation for Brady's entire career, including 11 seasons as offensive coordinator. Brady's played behind a consistently good+ offensive line.....coached by Dante Scarnecchia for what, 30 years? 

Brady's a great player. But there are at least 5-7 contemporaries that could have been more or less just as effective if in the same ecosystem. 

I think the TB12/Guerrero tie-in is a little dubious with regard to ‘make-up compensation’.  1)  I know in other businesses/industries (mine included), side deals/side letters are illegal.  The NFL business is different but I suspect this would at the very least run afoul of salary cap law and 2) if the Pats and Brady got 4 games for deflated footballs, playing schaedenfraude with the salary cap I would think would be penalized more severely and 3) wouldn’t 31 other teams cry foul?  I’m sure Arthur Blank would have liked to have invested in some of Matt Ryan’s ‘businesses’ last year for some cap savings.  Now Is it easier to leave $60-100M on the table when your wife makes more than you, I guess so.

Tom Brady left $60-100M on the table...

...and I think BB is the GOAT too.  But without each other, I think they each bring home 2-3.  Their accomplishments and greatness would be less unquestioned.

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2 hours ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

I don’t base my opinion for QB’s on wins or Super Bowls. Those are team and coach accomplishments. Marino and Peyton are 2 of the best of all time. I think Manning is arguably the best ever and DEFINITELY better than Brady. Check out this write up I put together before the 2013 super bowl of Seahawks and Broncos.

https://glitchgoals.wordpress.com/2014/02/02/the-big-game/

Neither do I. While wins and postseason success are part of it. Those are NOT the only factors. There are several other factors too. Passing yards, QBR, and passer rating through several seasons. Clutch when it matters most. How much you can overcome with the pieces around you. Type of talent, and so forth. I posted my reasons on a thread several months back. I'd have to spend time on my archive of posts tho. :(

Edited by mqg96

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23 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Passing attempts = passing offense? Got it. Thanks for playing.

Rushing attempts = rushing offense? Got it. Thanks for playing.

I wasn't even talking about "passing attempts" but whatever. The style of football the Falcons played in 2010 was ground and pound and control the clock. The exact same as it was in 2008 and 2009. I don't care how many pass attempts they had. I care about the style of offense and the Falcons were a running offense in 2010.

The fact that I've even got to explain that you can have a higher number of pass attempts and still be a "running" offense just blows my mind to anyone that has watched football for more than 5 minutes. Like I said, watch the games. Don't pay any attention to the number of passes. Pay attention to the style of football. Pay attention to what the Falcons offensive mindset was. What did the Falcons want to accomplish? They wanted to run the ball and control the clock to keep a subpar defense off the field and that's exactly what they did. There's a reason the Falcons defense finished 5th in points allowed that year. It's because it was hardly on the field because of all the long time consuming drives put together by the offense. It **** sure wasn't because the defense was actually any good. You don't get long drawn out drives by not running the ball and having success with it.

You wanna use pass attempts to make your case? Well, let me use run attempts to make my case. Falcons ran the ball 497 times in 2010. That was 4th most in the NFL. Yet, they were a passing offense? Ok then. Like I said, anyone that goes back and watches those games and thinks "passing team" is clueless. 4th most rushing attempts in the NFL but "passing" team. 497 rushing attempts and 577 passing attempts. That's 1074 plays. We're talking about nearly 50/50 run and pass. But yeah, once again! Numbers don't lie. The games don't lie. The 2010 Atlanta Falcons were a RUNNING TEAM!! Those are the facts!!

yikes. 

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22 hours ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

I think the TB12/Guerrero tie-in is a little dubious with regard to ‘make-up compensation’.  1)  I know in other businesses/industries (mine included), side deals/side letters are illegal.  The NFL business is different but I suspect this would at the very least run afoul of salary cap law and 2) if the Pats and Brady got 4 games for deflated footballs, playing schaedenfraude with the salary cap I would think would be penalized more severely and 3) wouldn’t 31 other teams cry foul?  I’m sure Arthur Blank would have liked to have invested in some of Matt Ryan’s ‘businesses’ last year for some cap savings.  Now Is it easier to leave $60-100M on the table when your wife makes more than you, I guess so.

Tom Brady left $60-100M on the table...

...and I think BB is the GOAT too.  But without each other, I think they each bring home 2-3.  Their accomplishments and greatness would be less unquestioned.

The bold is all predicated on getting caught. 

And one is less likely to get caught if one is a very smart and influential owner who is astutely aware of how one could get caught. It's not like the NFL has subpoena power as it relates to personal finances. 

Look.....if Bill Simmons, the Pats fan of all Pats fans, endorses the idea, you can tell its reached a certain level of fan acceptance. 

It is what it is. Doesnt bother me at all. 

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I'm gonna say no but to be fair in my mind Marino is the GOAT so it's unfair to compare. Idgaf how many SBs you have. If you throw over 5,000 yards and 48 TDs in nineteen eighty ******* four, back when DBs I'm pretty sure were allowed to bring medieval weapons and ****, you are playing at a skill level so far beyond the bell curve of your peers it's off the charts.

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1 hour ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

yikes. 

Is that a "yikes" in that you didn't realize the Falcons ran the ball the 4th most times in the NFL in 2010 and that they had a 46/54 ratio of run-to-pass, therefore making my statement about them being a "running team" true?

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On 1/24/2019 at 7:11 PM, Falconsfan567 said:

Is that a "yikes" in that you didn't realize the Falcons ran the ball the 4th most times in the NFL in 2010 and that they had a 46/54 ratio of run-to-pass, therefore making my statement about them being a "running team" true?

No, my "yikes" is a general rejection of your entire argument. 

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On 1/19/2019 at 7:39 PM, DawnOfThemBirds said:

 

Even then, Ryan wouldn't be a superior QB than Marino or Peyton was.

This is an argument for the sake of arguing. You can only be judged by the level of competition you play against. Is Brady better than Marino. 

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1 hour ago, falconfreak1 said:

This is an argument for the sake of arguing. You can only be judged by the level of competition you play against. Is Brady better than Marino. 

 

Marino and Peyton were better QBs than Ryan. Marino was before his time as a very gifted passer. He would no doubt thrive in today's NFL as a top QB. Peyton was the ultimate field-general.

 

Ryan will go down as a great QB in his own right before its over, but he isn't those guys. I do think Ryan may be not too far under them though.

 

Ryan is definitely looking like one of the most underappreciated QBs of all-time.

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I’d put Matt ahead of Kelly, but behind Manning.

I’d put him above Marino as well, but then I was never a fan lf Marino and always felt that he was heavily overrated. I missed his best season as I didn’t get in to the NFL until 85, but to me Marino was a guy who put up fantasy numbers against but consistently failed to perform when it mattered the most. In big games, he’d fold every time.

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On 1/29/2019 at 2:23 PM, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

No, my "yikes" is a general rejection of your entire argument. 

Ok then, we clearly have a different idea about what it means to be a "passing" team. I can't consider a team that had the 4th most rushing attempts, 12th most rushing yards and the 15th most passing yards to be a "passing" team. I'm sorry, but saying that a team with those rankings is a "passing" team is like saying that Michael Vick was a "passing" QB.

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