Falcons Fan MVP

Do you think Matt Ryan is better than Peyton Manning, Dan Marino and Jim Kelly?

186 posts in this topic

On 1/19/2019 at 8:43 PM, Falcons Fan MVP said:

3 quarterbacks Matt Ryan has been compared to the most are Peyton Manning, Dan Marino and Jim Kelly. How good is Matt Ryan compared to these 3 quarterbacks in your opinion?  I think Matt is better than Jim Kelly and slightly better than Marino but not quite as good as Peyton Manning yet. Your thoughts?

You think Matt Ryan is better than Dan Marino???  Are you smoking crack?!   I'm a huge Matt Ryan fan, but this is just ridiculous.  And don't come at me with some b.s. cherry-picked stats.  

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37 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

Rodgers is most overrated QB of his era. 

He might be but he still had more support than Marino

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1 hour ago, Falcons_Pantera_KoRn said:

You think Matt Ryan is better than Dan Marino???  Are you smoking crack?!   I'm a huge Matt Ryan fan, but this is just ridiculous.  And don't come at me with some b.s. cherry-picked stats. 

 

1 hour ago, apl2g said:

He might be but he still had more support than Marino

I thought that Duper, Clayton and Keith Jackson were solid. Defense seemed average. Great coaches.

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5 hours ago, falcons007 said:

Philip Rivers and Romo are not even in same Zip code as Ryan. 

So why do I see so many comparisons of Manning and Ryan in first 5, 7, 10 years, 11, and 12. I didn’t see any one comparing Ryan to Marino. But I have seen plenty with manning. 

There's no real statistical evidence for that argument, honestly. The burden of proof is on you. Tony Romo and Phillip Rivers last 10 seasons are very similar to Ryan's last 10 seasons. Ryan has a lot of yards, that's about it.

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On 1/20/2019 at 1:04 AM, Falconsfan567 said:

Except that Ryan has had a ton more postseason success than Tony Romo and Philip Rivers. Why do folks ignore that?

Because there are 22 starters on a team + the coaching staff and FO. Postseason success has a lot more to do with the team rather than the QB.

Y'all can't stand when someone tries to downplay Ryan due to him not having a ring, but do the EXACT same thing to other QBs. If you dared mention Ryan's lack of postseason success pre-2016 on these boards, you'd get crucified. So why is it okay to use it as a measure to downplay other QBs.

Rivers/Romo are not bad QBs, they were practically top 10 every year they played. The same can be said for Ryan.

Edited by ChickenBiscuit

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Matt Ryan is an MVP of this league. With one defensive play, he would be a Super Bowl winner already. He had the greatest statistical QBR season of any QB to ever miss the playoffs this year. Hopefully he can get one before he hangs them up so he gets the respect he deserves.

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3 hours ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

Because there are 22 starters on a team + the coaching staff and FO. Postseason success has a lot more to do with the team rather than the QB.

Y'all can't stand when someone tries to downplay Ryan due to him not having a ring, but do the EXACT same thing to other QBs. If you dared mention Ryan's lack of postseason success pre-2016 on these boards, you'd get crucified. So why is it okay to use it as a measure to downplay other QBs.

Rivers/Romo are not bad QBs, they were practically top 10 every year they played. The same can be said for Ryan.

Because 2016 didn't happen in a vacuum. Why is it okay to NOT use it as a measure when comparing QBs? Rivers and Romo were never MVPs and never went to the Super Bowl. Ryan was literally the closest to getting a ring and would have one if DQ and company didn't forget a football 101 rule of closing out games.

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9 hours ago, falcons007 said:

Rodgers is most overrated QB of his era. 

 

10 hours ago, apl2g said:

Aaron Rogers has always had more support than Marino... Marino played 16 years and had 1 thousand yard rusher. Rogers has played 10 and already has 4 thousand yard rushers behind him.. plus a better list of receivers and TE’s

Mark Clayton, Mark Duper, Irving Fryar made 9 ProBowls with Marino.  

Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson Randall Cobb, Davonte Adams had/have 6 with Rodgers.

Marino from an OL perspective, Dwight Stevenson is in the HOF.  He also had Richmond Webb and Keith Sims perennial Pro-Bowlers.

Rodgers had Chad Clifton, Josh Sitton, TJ Lang.  From my POV, Marino played behind better OL’s.

...and then, if we’re talking running game, here is where GB ranked in rushing offense WITHOUT Rodgers contributions since we’re talking supporting cast.  I mean if we included Rodgers rushing numbers, then that part of his game needs to be taken into account when measuring his greatness against Marino who was notoriously...statuesque. Starting with 2018 and working down to 2008.

31

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...are you really saying you need 1000 yard rusher to be an asset in the run game?  

 

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8 hours ago, Falcons Fan MVP said:

 

I thought that Duper, Clayton and Keith Jackson were solid. Defense seemed average. Great coaches.

They were solid but I would take Greg Jennings, Ryan grant, jordy Nelson, Eddie Lacy, Randall Cobb, Donald Driver, Jermichael Finley over them. 

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2 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

 

Mark Clayton, Mark Duper, Irving Fryar made 9 ProBowls with Marino.  

Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson Randall Cobb, Davonte Adams had/have 6 with Rodgers.

Marino from an OL perspective, Dwight Stevenson is in the HOF.  He also had Richmond Webb and Keith Sims perennial Pro-Bowlers.

Rodgers had Chad Clifton, Josh Sitton, TJ Lang.  From my POV, Marino played behind better OL’s.

...and then, if we’re talking running game, here is where GB ranked in rushing offense WITHOUT Rodgers contributions since we’re talking supporting cast.  I mean if we included Rodgers rushing numbers, then that part of his game needs to be taken into account when measuring his greatness against Marino who was notoriously...statuesque. Starting with 2018 and working down to 2008.

31

24

30

23

20

12

28

32

32

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...are you really saying you need 1000 yard rusher to be an asset in the run game?  

 

Having a run game opens everything else up. If you don’t have a guy who can average 60-70 yards a game your team becomes 1 dimensional and easier to scheme against. 

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6 minutes ago, apl2g said:

Having a run game opens everything else up. If you don’t have a guy who can average 60-70 yards a game your team becomes 1 dimensional and easier to scheme against. 

Exactly...look how Rodgers didn’t have that based on the Packers rushing rankings throughout his career.

Your argument on the ‘1000 yard rusher claim’ is akin to ‘poor Drew Brees, he had no rushing attack this season’.

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1 minute ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

Exactly...look how Rodgers didn’t have that based on the Packers rushing rankings throughout his career.

Your argument on the ‘1000 yard rusher claim’ is akin to ‘poor Drew Brees, he had no rushing attack this season’.

1. I think Rogers will end up an all time great

2. Rogers clearly had better running backs behind him in Eddie Lacy, Ryan Grant

3. The comparison was Ryan to Marino. Not sure how Rogers got added

4. Rogers has played in a pass happy time so his rushing #’s won’t be as high

5. Marino played in a time when they were actually able to play rough, physical football so a run game was more important then

 

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13 minutes ago, apl2g said:

1. I think Rogers will end up an all time great

2. Rogers clearly had better running backs behind him in Eddie Lacy, Ryan Grant

3. The comparison was Ryan to Marino. Not sure how Rogers got added

4. Rogers has played in a pass happy time so his rushing #’s won’t be as high

5. Marino played in a time when they were actually able to play rough, physical football so a run game was more important then

 

1. I think he already is...

2. A yard is a yard is a yard...no matter the name on the back of the jersey.  And the rankings show that Rodgers historically has had little support here.

3.  It started when you/someone else claimed Marino had more support than Rodgers and that Rodgers might be the most overrated QB of his era.  So we’re debating on that.  I would opine that each has similarly had roster deficiencies, but that Rodgers can claim his were more severe.  And he’s brought home 1 SB and 2 MVP’s. To Marino’s 1 MVP.  To be fair, Marino does have 3 first-team All-Pro’s.

4. Again, if we’re talking about yearly rankings, however high the rushing numbers are doesn’t matter much relative to the ranking the Packers had against 31 other teams.

5. Tell the 2018 Atlanta Falcons how non-important a run game is.  A run game is just as important today as it was in the 80’s.  It’s simply deployed much differently and the commoditization of the position has devalued the investment teams make there.

...and I can’t take your ‘never mind the number of ProBowls facts, my opinion is that I’d rather have this group of less decorated players’ stance very seriously.

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1 hour ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

1. I think he already is...

2. A yard is a yard is a yard...no matter the name on the back of the jersey.  And the rankings show that Rodgers historically has had little support here.

3.  It started when you/someone else claimed Marino had more support than Rodgers and that Rodgers might be the most overrated QB of his era.  So we’re debating on that.  I would opine that each has similarly had roster deficiencies, but that Rodgers can claim his were more severe.  And he’s brought home 1 SB and 2 MVP’s. To Marino’s 1 MVP.  To be fair, Marino does have 3 first-team All-Pro’s.

4. Again, if we’re talking about yearly rankings, however high the rushing numbers are doesn’t matter much relative to the ranking the Packers had against 31 other teams.

5. Tell the 2018 Atlanta Falcons how non-important a run game is.  A run game is just as important today as it was in the 80’s.  It’s simply deployed much differently and the commoditization of the position has devalued the investment teams make there.

...and I can’t take your ‘never mind the number of ProBowls facts, my opinion is that I’d rather have this group of less decorated players’ stance very seriously.

Honestly I don’t care what you take seriously. I think Marino had less support, and just because the numbers show that they both had crap support, doesn’t make me wrong. Yes Rogers has bad support, but so did Marino. When Marino retired he had set a bunch of records with that bad support. 

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12 hours ago, Falcons_Pantera_KoRn said:

You think Matt Ryan is better than Dan Marino???  Are you smoking crack?!   I'm a huge Matt Ryan fan, but this is just ridiculous.  And don't come at me with some b.s. cherry-picked stats.  

Marino is probably the true goat, its between him and Peyton.

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I think Matt is a great HOF caliber QB. 

I don't think he's Marino or Manning. Kelly might be in the discussion by the end of Matt's career. 

Matt, unless he does something amazing the next few seasons, is going to be kind of a 2nd tier HOF QB. His shtick is being a really good QB that's good at a lot of things without being truly exceptional at any one thing. I think that hurts his perception around the NFL  

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8 hours ago, JerseyNo12 said:

Because 2016 didn't happen in a vacuum. Why is it okay to NOT use it as a measure when comparing QBs? Rivers and Romo were never MVPs and never went to the Super Bowl. Ryan was literally the closest to getting a ring and would have one if DQ and company didn't forget a football 101 rule of closing out games.

Lmao, so the bar for being a better QB is going to the Super Bowl? Not even winning it?

Okay, so Joe Flacco is a better QB than Ryan because he has a ring. And Brad Johnson. And Trent Dilfer.

But wait, they never won MVPs. Ok, Cam Newton is a MVP and he went to the Super Bowl. He is, therefore, better than Rivers and Romo and equal to Ryan, right? You see how stupid this logic is? There are so many factors to take into account when measuring post-season success, attributing wins as a QB statistic is outrageous. Drew Brees is A-tier every single year, yet he's missed the playoffs how many times in the past 6 years? 

How about we just compare...ya know, their career stats? Which are VERY similar by the way (I noticed no one has disputed that yet).

Ryan is a great QB. He doesn't belong in the same breath as Dan Marino or Peyton Manning. Jim Kelly, ehh. By your logic, Jim Kelly went to the Super Bowl 4 times therefore he's at least 4x better than Ryan. 

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1 hour ago, Geneaut said:

I think Matt is a great HOF caliber QB. 

I don't think he's Marino or Manning. Kelly might be in the discussion by the end of Matt's career. 

Matt, unless he does something amazing the next few seasons, is going to be kind of a 2nd tier HOF QB. His shtick is being a really good QB that's good at a lot of things without being truly exceptional at any one thing. I think that hurts his perception around the NFL  

Agree 100%

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2 hours ago, apl2g said:

Honestly I don’t care what you take seriously. I think Marino had less support, and just because the numbers show that they both had crap support, doesn’t make me wrong. Yes Rogers has bad support, but so did Marino. When Marino retired he had set a bunch of records with that bad support. 

Didn’t you say above that Rodgers might be the most overrated QB of his era?

Ultimately, I don’t mind rationale backed up with fact.  But if your going to state the above...think you need to back it up other than ‘I just think so’.  Especially when the facts say otherwise.

We haven’t even touched on Marino’s 1.7/1 TD:INT ratio v Rodgers’ 4.2/1.  But I guess such facts don’t register much on the ‘I think’ scale.

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I've avoided reading this topic since it came up...but now that I'm here, I'm going to throw a name out that hasn't been mentioned yet.

 

Warren Moon.

Moon was probably the 3rd or 4th best QB in the league during the late 80s-early 90s.  To me, Moon is who Ryan's career mostly resembles.  Both were overshadowed by perennial Super Bowl winners (Brady/Montana), Both were consistently in the top of the yardage categories.  Both on teams that would have a good year and then (while having great stats) the next year would be a down year...and (as much as this hurts to say) both blew historic leads.

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On 1/19/2019 at 6:43 PM, Falcons Fan MVP said:

3 quarterbacks Matt Ryan has been compared to the most are Peyton Manning, Dan Marino and Jim Kelly. How good is Matt Ryan compared to these 3 quarterbacks in your opinion?  I think Matt is better than Jim Kelly and slightly better than Marino but not quite as good as Peyton Manning yet. Your thoughts?

I'll give him Kelly and Marino. I thinks he's in the ballpark of Peyton however, I think Manning has either had better coaches or Manning was more in charge of the plays than Matt. All things being equal, I think Matt is right there with them. Maybe not earlier in his career but, now for sure. 

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