Falcons Fan MVP

Do you think Matt Ryan is better than Peyton Manning, Dan Marino and Jim Kelly?

186 posts in this topic

28 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Marino with mobility.  Scary thought.  I don’t think Mahomes is the sharpest tool in the shed, though.  Belichick will fool him twice today.  2 INT’s will be the difference as NE advances to #6

I don't think so. Watching him against the Colts last week, he's matured. Mahomes was very methodical, much like Brady. Stood tall in the pocket and was getting rid of the ball quickly. I think he's learned to be more patient and pick his spots when the opportunities present themselves instead of trying to fit in throws with his strong arm.

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16 hours ago, Falcons Fan MVP said:

3 quarterbacks Matt Ryan has been compared to the most are Peyton Manning, Dan Marino and Jim Kelly. How good is Matt Ryan compared to these 3 quarterbacks in your opinion?  I think Matt is better than Jim Kelly and slightly better than Marino but not quite as good as Peyton Manning yet. Your thoughts?

At this point he is not better than any of them. 

Marino might be the best ever when you consider what he was playing with, and the records he set

Peyton is considered top 3 by most people who know anything about football

Jim Kelly was hugely underrated, yet took his team to 4 straight Super Bowls and ran a pretty good offense 

I love Ryan but I don’t think he’s in the top 10 of all time, which all 3 of those guys are

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44 minutes ago, apl2g said:

At this point he is not better than any of them. 

Marino might be the best ever when you consider what he was playing with, and the records he set

Peyton is considered top 3 by most people who know anything about football

Jim Kelly was hugely underrated, yet took his team to 4 straight Super Bowls and ran a pretty good offense 

I love Ryan but I don’t think he’s in the top 10 of all time, which all 3 of those guys are

Peyton - no doubt Top 10...probably Top 5.

Marino - debatable Top 10, worthy of consideration

Kelly - not Top 10

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3 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

Peyton - no doubt Top 10...probably Top 5.

Marino - debatable Top 10, worthy of consideration

Kelly - not Top 10

I would put Marino Top 5. Got less help than any of the QBs mentioned.

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54 minutes ago, Vandy said:

I would put Marino Top 5. Got less help than any of the QBs mentioned.

I’d disagree with the ‘Marino got less help’ comment. He played for two coaches that won multiple Super Bowls (Shula, JJ).

He had years where the defenses were very good, and some years where they were bad.  But I think you could say that about a lot of QB’s.  IMO, Marino’s teams that didn’t make SB’s were better than Elway’s teams that did.

Ultimately, while he’s an All-Time great, I do think the lack of a title keeps him from that level.

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33 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

I’d disagree with the ‘Marino got less help’ comment. He played for two coaches that won multiple Super Bowls (Shula, JJ).

He had years where the defenses were very good, and some years where they were bad.  But I think you could say that about a lot of QB’s.  IMO, Marino’s teams that didn’t make SB’s were better than Elway’s teams that did.

Ultimately, while he’s an All-Time great, I do think the lack of a title keeps him from that level.

I hear you on Shula......to be fair JJ never had his heart in it in Miami, sorry but we have to discount him for that as his coach. 

But even with Shula, what help did Marino get? Other than in his rookie season, his Defenses were never great, never had a 1,000 yard RB....IMO not what you would call elite receivers. Except for Brady (undisputed GOAT) and Brees all the other elite QBs everyone talks about had one or the other.....with Montana having it all (great D, receivers, RB, coach etc)....

It takes a complete team to win a SB...except perhaps his rookie season, I don’t think Marino ever had that team like elway, Montana, Manning, Utitas  et al had.

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3 hours ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

I’d disagree with the ‘Marino got less help’ comment. He played for two coaches that won multiple Super Bowls (Shula, JJ).

He had years where the defenses were very good, and some years where they were bad.  But I think you could say that about a lot of QB’s.  IMO, Marino’s teams that didn’t make SB’s were better than Elway’s teams that did.

Ultimately, while he’s an All-Time great, I do think the lack of a title keeps him from that level.

I honestly think Marino did get less help than the rest of the teams he was facing in the playoffs on a yearly basis. Check out the Dolphins rushing ranks in Marino's years.

  • 1983 - 13th
  • 1984 - 16th
  • 1985 - 18th
  • 1986 - 25th (Bottom 5)
  • 1987 - 23rd
  • 1988 - 28th (Last)
  • 1989 - 27th (Bottom 5)
  • 1990 - 22nd
  • 1991 - 25th (Bottom 5)
  • 1992 - 24th (Bottom 5)
  • 1993 - 25th (Bottom 5)
  • 1994 - 13th
  • 1995 - 21st
  • 1996 - 19th
  • 1997 - 29th (Bottom 5)
  • 1998 - 24th
  • 1999 - 22nd

Dan Marino played on teams that the best they ever finished in rushing yards is 13th. They finished last once and in the bottom 5 of the NFL in rushing yards 6 times. In 1996 Karim Abdul-Jabbar rushed for 1116 yards for the Dolphins. That was the only 1000 yard rusher the Dolphins had in Marino's time. So, the Dolphins offense was Marino or nothing.

Now for the defensive ranks. Here's the points allowed defensive rankings for the Dolphins in Marino's time.

  • 1983 - 1st
  • 1984 - 7th
  • 1985 - 12th
  • 1986 - 26th (Bottom 5)
  • 1987 - 16th
  • 1988 - 24th (Bottom 5)
  • 1989 - 22nd
  • 1990 - 4th
  • 1991 - 24th (Bottom 5)
  • 1992 - 12th
  • 1993 - 24th (Bottom 5)
  • 1994 - 17th
  • 1995 - 11th
  • 1996 - 17th
  • 1997 - 16th
  • 1998 - 1st
  • 1999 - 19th

1983 they finished with the top scoring defense in the NFL but it was Marino's rookie year and they lost to the Seahawks in the playoffs. The next year they were 7th in scoring defense and made it to the Super Bowl and lost to the clear cut best team in the NFL in the 49ers that year. 1990 they finished 4th in scoring defense and lost to the Bills in the playoffs. The Bills were to the Dolphins under Jim Kelly what the Saints have been to the Falcons under Drew Brees. Marino's teams were just not good enough to beat the Bills consistently just like Ryan's teams haven't been good enough to beat the Saints consistently. In 1998 they finished 1st in scoring defense and lost to the Broncos in the playoffs. Again, the clear cut best team in the NFL. So for Marino's career he only had a defense that finished in the top 10 in the NFL 4 times. He had 4 defenses that finished in the bottom 5 in the NFL. They routinely finished mid pack in the NFL under Marino.

Here's the yards allowed.

  • 1983 - 7th
  • 1984 - 19th
  • 1985 - 23rd
  • 1986 - 26th (Bottom 5)
  • 1987 - 26th (Bottom 5)
  • 1988 - 26th (Bottom 5)
  • 1989 - 24th (Bottom 5)
  • 1990 - 7th
  • 1991 - 25th (Bottom 5)
  • 1992 - 11th
  • 1993 - 20th
  • 1994 - 19th
  • 1995 - 16th
  • 1996 - 17th
  • 1997 - 26th (Bottom 5)
  • 1998 - 3rd
  • 1999 - 5th

Only 4 times did the Dolphins finish in the top 10 in yards allowed. 6 times they finished in the bottom 5 of the NFL in yards allowed. Again routinely mid pack. So no, Marino didn't have a whole lot of help in his career despite who his coaches were.

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16 minutes ago, ya_boi_j said:

**** no. Those other 3 guys performed at a high level when the League wasn’t so QB friendly. 

We have no idea how Matt Ryan would have done in the 80s and 90s. That's why it's not fair to compare eras.

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27 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

We have no idea how Matt Ryan would have done in the 80s and 90s. That's why it's not fair to compare eras.

Same goes for every player in this era. 

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25 minutes ago, ya_boi_j said:

Same goes for every player in this era. 

Exactly. I said earlier in the thread it's not fair to compare eras.

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2 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said:

We have no idea how Matt Ryan would have done in the 80s and 90s. That's why it's not fair to compare eras.

Jim Kelly did the no huddle a lot. Matt Ryan would do very well on the 90's Bills.

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3 hours ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

I’d disagree with the ‘Marino got less help’ comment. He played for two coaches that won multiple Super Bowls (Shula, JJ).

He had years where the defenses were very good, and some years where they were bad.  But I think you could say that about a lot of QB’s.  IMO, Marino’s teams that didn’t make SB’s were better than Elway’s teams that did.

Ultimately, while he’s an All-Time great, I do think the lack of a title keeps him from that level.

 Marino never had a running game! Ever! I’m pretty sure he only had one running back run for 1000 yards behind him and his entire career! The Dolphins were A one dimensional team yet Marino still put up amazing numbers and still won a ton of games.

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1 hour ago, apl2g said:

 Marino never had a running game! Ever! I’m pretty sure he only had one running back run for 1000 yards behind him and his entire career! The Dolphins were A one dimensional team yet Marino still put up amazing numbers and still won a ton of games.

Of course...but he’s not Top 5 all-time.  Aaron Rodgers can claim the same things...

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20 hours ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

No, he should be compared to Tony Romo and Phillip Rivers. Two very good, and very comparable QBs.

Drinking your own piss is harmful to brain.

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10 hours ago, octoslash said:

And it's stupid. 

Put Ryan on Bill Belichick's teams.  Boom- he's holding probably three rings at least.

Tom Brady as a Cleveland Brown for the past twenty years...he doesn't even sniff the playoffs. 

Put Archie Manning on the 1970s Steelers.  Four trophies in six years, and people would be calling him the GOAT.

Comparing individuals in football is pointless because no two qbs will ever be in identical environments. 

Yeah. Why compare now? Let Ryan play out his career and then judge. 

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15 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

Drinking your own piss is harmful to brain.

There is not a place on earth outside of TATF where anyone with a lick of common sense would put Ryan in the same conversation as Manning/Marino. It's a laughable comparison.

Phillip Rivers, and Tony Romo were/are too highly efficient QBs and ARE comparable statistically rather you like Ryan or not.

and get new jokes lol

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8 minutes ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

There is not a place on earth outside of TATF where anyone with a lick of common sense would put Ryan in the same conversation as Manning/Marino. It's a laughable comparison.

Phillip Rivers, and Tony Romo were/are too highly efficient QBs and ARE comparable statistically rather you like Ryan or not.

and get new jokes lol

Philip Rivers and Romo are not even in same Zip code as Ryan. 

So why do I see so many comparisons of Manning and Ryan in first 5, 7, 10 years, 11, and 12. I didn’t see any one comparing Ryan to Marino. But I have seen plenty with manning. 

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2 hours ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

Of course...but he’s not Top 5 all-time.  Aaron Rodgers can claim the same things...

Aaron Rogers has always had more support than Marino... Marino played 16 years and had 1 thousand yard rusher. Rogers has played 10 and already has 4 thousand yard rushers behind him.. plus a better list of receivers and TE’s

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53 minutes ago, apl2g said:

Aaron Rogers has always had more support than Marino... Marino played 16 years and had 1 thousand yard rusher. Rogers has played 10 and already has 4 thousand yard rushers behind him.. plus a better list of receivers and TE’s

Rodgers is most overrated QB of his era. 

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