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Falconsin2012

Elite Dependability Vs Elite Talent

53 posts in this topic

22 minutes ago, BlazerSlayer said:

Except the play before he got stuffed for no gain. 

Still I'm going to make the defense earn it. At that point it's about who wants it more. Line up and move your man or get moved. 

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5 hours ago, ATLSlobberKnockers said:

This. Rosters must churn yearly

It keeps the message from going stale as well, don’t you think?  Someone like Quinn, who uses rah rah motivational tactics, needs roster turnover to make sure his message continues being effective.

Its not a huge surprise Seattle rebounded this year after gutting the veteran players on the roster

Edited by Falconsin2012
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5 hours ago, ATLSlobberKnockers said:

Still I'm going to make the defense earn it. At that point it's about who wants it more. Line up and move your man or get moved. 

I agree.  I’m not saying they should have thrown.  What they should have done is used a TO, brought in a 6th offensive lineman, 2 blocking TE’s and tried to force it in.

But as the play actually happened, NE’s front kept Seattle in 11 personnel which was appropriate for what was in front of them

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14 hours ago, RubberDucky said:

People want us to have a Patriot-like view when it comes to the roster, but nobody wants us to make the BB decisions when it comes to cutting ties w/ players. People want to continue paying out the *** for skill position guys and wonder why we cant solidify our trenches.

All of this! Preach! 

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13 hours ago, Brewcrew said:

I wonder how tarnished N.E. legacy is if the Seahawks run for the TD and Atlanta runs and kicks the FG.   Can’t change the past, but just wonder.

Don't . . . I've had too many days thinking about this back during those two SBs.

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BB has no feelings.  He is all about maximizing the team on the field.  TD and DQ are romantics who fall in love with players and do the "Brotherhood" thing.  I'm a feeling guy but when you look around at the leaders who are most effective, they all tend to be sons of ..... who cut out all the fluff and get to who is and who isn't "doing their f'ing job" and can I get similar for less.

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13 hours ago, Malachore said:

That prep wouldn't have matter if SEA would have just done what they should have done.

NE has been every bit as lucky if not more lucky than good. Like I said, should have been 5 in a row and have still lost 3 of last 5.

Yea, they should be 3 - 5 . . . more LBJ-like in the SB . . . BUT this makes the case that BB is the GOAT

Edited by Halcon-1
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13 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

NE forced Seattle to play that rep on their terms.  For those who argue that Seahawks should have run the ball, where would you have liked them to run it? There are eight defenders in the box against six blockers, and they have leverage based on alignment against a possible inside zone from shotgun.

Here’s what Wilson saw at the time. There’s nowhere to run.

(Defenders circled in yellow are in man coverage.)

Screen_Shot_2018_06_04_at_3.17.02_PM.png

Passing the ball was the best option in this situation. Against man coverage, a pick play was a sound choice.

There is a fair argument to be made that Seattle could have called a different pass play, to one of its more experienced options. However, given this pre-snap look, Wilson had to expect possible zero coverage, where everyone who’s not guarding an offensive player in a route is rushing the passer. That doesn’t leave much time for much of a route concept. This play, in theory, is a great press man coverage beater.

Defense just won the rep 

annnnnnd this is the difference between Belichick and other coaches. . . dude playing expert-level chess and playing mind games with people's psyches. 

You know how offenses say dictate your will. . . well this is in reverse. Belichick forced them to adjust to him. Thereby forcing them to call a play that he knew was coming and getting his players to "do your job" . . . GENIUS

Edited by Halcon-1
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4 minutes ago, Monolith2001 said:

BB has no feelings.  He is all about maximizing the team on the field.  TD and DQ are romantics who fall in love with players and do the "Brotherhood" thing.  I'm a feeling guy but when you look around at the leaders who are most effective, they all tend to be sons of ..... who cut out all the fluff and get to who is and who isn't "doing their f'ing job" and can I get similar for less.

Pretty much . . . . 

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14 hours ago, RubberDucky said:

People want us to have a Patriot-like view when it comes to the roster, but nobody wants us to make the BB decisions when it comes to cutting ties w/ players. People want to continue paying out the *** for skill position guys and wonder why we cant solidify our trenches.

Very true.  For example, Freeman.  Yes, I like the guy, but we should not have allowed for emotions to enter the equation.  We should have let him walk and ride the Coleman/new guy train.  That is what BB would have done.  

It seems cold and cruel, but RB's are less valuable than OL's........far less.  We should have invested in top tier OL's when we had the cap space.  Instead, we threw money at a small RB that was bound to get injured because we had lousy OL's blocking for him.  

BB is clearly the best Head Coach in NFL history......better than Landry, Lombardi and Walsh.  And before anyone scoffs, yes, I followed all those guys and admired them.  I am that old. 

BB gets more out of his personnel than anyone else I can recall, and he does it year after year.

 Quinn should stop watching SEAL and Boxing videos and should spend a lot more time learning what he can from the master.    

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16 minutes ago, Monolith2001 said:

BB has no feelings.  He is all about maximizing the team on the field.  TD and DQ are romantics who fall in love with players and do the "Brotherhood" thing.  I'm a feeling guy but when you look around at the leaders who are most effective, they all tend to be sons of ..... who cut out all the fluff and get to who is and who isn't "doing their f'ing job" and can I get similar for less.

BB has feelings, the difference is that he understands his responsibility to the team.  This is business.  You make decisions that help your team, not the individuals.  Lombardi understood that, as did Landry and Walsh.  They were not "nice guys".  They took care of business first and foremost.   

Once you are off the field, you can help the people that you got to know at the office.  You maintain those relationships, but you do not become a prisoner of your emotions.  

BB is the best there has ever been.  

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14 hours ago, Francis York Morgan said:

A more Belichik move is trading Julio, Beasley, and Alford. Last year.

Not saying it's a good move either. But it's a Beli one.

Another aspect of the Belichick genius is his use of restricted free agency.  Almost no teams venture down that road because it’s complicated and costly in terms of draft capital. Belichick wins titles because of it.  This is how he stole Welker, Moss, Hogan, Gillislee amongst others

Why is trading for players intelligent?  Because only their salary counts against the cap. New England lets the team that drafted and/or signed the player to the initial contract take the cap hit for the signing bonus, then they acquire the lowest-risk portion of the deal, since the dead cap money usually stays with the team that initially signed the player

Edited by Falconsin2012
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29 minutes ago, etherdome said:

Very true.  For example, Freeman.  Yes, I like the guy, but we should not have allowed for emotions to enter the equation.  We should have let him walk and ride the Coleman/new guy train.  That is what BB would have done.  

It seems cold and cruel, but RB's are less valuable than OL's........far less.  We should have invested in top tier OL's when we had the cap space.  Instead, we threw money at a small RB that was bound to get injured because we had lousy OL's blocking for him.  

BB is clearly the best Head Coach in NFL history......better than Landry, Lombardi and Walsh.  And before anyone scoffs, yes, I followed all those guys and admired them.  I am that old. 

BB gets more out of his personnel than anyone else I can recall, and he does it year after year.

 Quinn should stop watching SEAL and Boxing videos and should spend a lot more time learning what he can from the master.    

LOL...read this if you want to see just how deep Belichick goes

 

The reason they were able to grab Vrabel and Colvin on the cheap: Along with only two other teams, the Patriots were playing the 3-4 defense, so most players who fit their defense didn’t necessarily fit those of 29 other clubs. When you value someone that almost no one else does, it’s easy to find a great deal.

 

“It was us, Pittsburgh, and I don't know where the other team was,” Belichick said. “So, if you wanted a nose tackle, there were plenty of them out there. If you wanted a 3-4 outside linebacker, there were plenty of them out there. Guys like—Colvin was a good example at Chicago or even Vrabel, those 3-4 outside linebackers, but there's nowhere to go.”

He doesn’t stop there. Belichick then suggests that part of the reason New England eventually moved away from a typical 3-4 is that too many teams adopted it, and thus those types of players became overvalued. This has always been the Belichick mantra: find players who adequately perform underrated tasks. That’s one of the reasons he started putting resources toward the slot receiverbefore anyone else: Outside receivers were usually too expensive in the late 2000s. That’s also why he went to two tight ends in the next decade: The slot receiver became too overvalued. Belichick finds hidden gems because no one else is looking for what he is.

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15 hours ago, RubberDucky said:

People want us to have a Patriot-like view when it comes to the roster, but nobody wants us to make the BB decisions when it comes to cutting ties w/ players. People want to continue paying out the *** for skill position guys and wonder why we cant solidify our trenches.

Yes sir.  And one common misconception about the Patriots: they solidify the trenches, but they don’t pay much to do so.  Compare Falcons OL & DL spending vs Pats since 2015:

Defensive Line:

2015:  Patriots - $8.8 mill      Falcons - $22 mill

2016:  Patriots - $9.0 mill      Falcons - $24 mill

2017:  Patriots - $12.8 mill    Falcons - $33 mill

2018:  Patriots - $17 mill.      Falcons - $23 mill

 

Offensive Line:

2015:  Patriots - $21 mill      Falcons - $14 mill

2016:  Patriots - $23 mill      Falcons - $21 mill

2017:  Patriots - $22 mill    Falcons - $26  mill

2018:  Patriots - $20 mill.      Falcons - $40 mill

 

Edited by Falconsin2012

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15 hours ago, Francis York Morgan said:

A more Belichik move is trading Julio, Beasley, and Alford. Last year.

Not saying it's a good move either. But it's a Beli one.

Facts

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15 hours ago, Brewcrew said:

I wonder how tarnished N.E. legacy is if the Seahawks run for the TD and Atlanta runs and kicks the FG.   Can’t change the past, but just wonder.

Thay’s part of his brilliance, he makes opposing coaches do incredibly dumb things.

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16 hours ago, RubberDucky said:

People want us to have a Patriot-like view when it comes to the roster, but nobody wants us to make the BB decisions when it comes to cutting ties w/ players. People want to continue paying out the *** for skill position guys and wonder why we cant solidify our trenches.

Exactly. My view is and always will be ~ No Sacred Cows. 

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1 hour ago, etherdome said:

Very true.  For example, Freeman.  Yes, I like the guy, but we should not have allowed for emotions to enter the equation.  We should have let him walk and ride the Coleman/new guy train.  That is what BB would have done.  

It seems cold and cruel, but RB's are less valuable than OL's........far less.  We should have invested in top tier OL's when we had the cap space.  Instead, we threw money at a small RB that was bound to get injured because we had lousy OL's blocking for him.  

BB is clearly the best Head Coach in NFL history......better than Landry, Lombardi and Walsh.  And before anyone scoffs, yes, I followed all those guys and admired them.  I am that old. 

BB gets more out of his personnel than anyone else I can recall, and he does it year after year.

 Quinn should stop watching SEAL and Boxing videos and should spend a lot more time learning what he can from the master.    

We ran Coleman/new guy train at RB last year. How did that work out?

We also have invested in our trenches, heavily actually. Signing freeman to frankly a modest contract extension for a top tier RB didn’t hamper us in doing that. 

Agree with the 2nd half of your post. But disagree extending freeman was a bad move by falcons. 

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2 hours ago, etherdome said:

BB has feelings, the difference is that he understands his responsibility to the team.  This is business.  You make decisions that help your team, not the individuals.  Lombardi understood that, as did Landry and Walsh.  They were not "nice guys".  They took care of business first and foremost.   

Once you are off the field, you can help the people that you got to know at the office.  You maintain those relationships, but you do not become a prisoner of your emotions.  

BB is the best there has ever been.  

Belichick cried when he released Wilfork.  It’s a business...not a felliwship of friends.  It’s why the Brady JG issue ticked him off

Edited by Falconsin2012

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21 hours ago, Brewcrew said:

I wonder how tarnished N.E. legacy is if the Seahawks run for the TD and Atlanta runs and kicks the FG.   Can’t change the past, but just wonder.

Then again one could argue they should not have lost to the Giants 2x, so it even outs.

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12 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

It keeps the message from going stale as well, don’t you think?  Someone like Quinn, who uses rah rah motivational tactics, needs roster turnover to make sure his message continues being effective.

Its not a huge surprise Seattle rebounded this year after gutting the veteran players on the roster

That is a really good.point that I hadn't considered.

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On 1/19/2019 at 7:32 PM, Francis York Morgan said:

A more Belichik move is trading Julio, Beasley, and Alford. Last year.

Not saying it's a good move either. But it's a Beli one.

The deal is, the other moves that aren't listed. Yeah he would move on from Beasley and Julio but his brilliance comes from the moves he makes in conjunction with those.

GDamit man, how long do you have to have that stupid avatar?

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