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Falcons_Frenzy

Scott Wright's 1st 2019 mock draft

51 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

You can only compare their 1st 3 years:

Donald had 18 sacks and 37 TFL

Oliver had 16 sacks and 53 TFL

And Donald never faced regular triple teams.  Love this quote from Oliver

 

How do you counter getting consistently double- and triple-teamed by opponents?
The only way you're beating three people is with perfect technique. You gotta have a little edge, a little dog about you. That comes from how you train your body and your mind in the offseason. I need to work out as hard as three people.

Ha ha now you edit it

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3 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

What? What a horse shat comparison. Donald barely played in his freshman year. Lol

and obviously you never watched him play with the last comment. 

I get it you’ve got a draft crush. If we get him I hope you’re right. But this reply is hilarious. What was Oliver’s high in sacks again? 5.5 right? Compared to two seasons of major college production of 11 sacks by Donald.

Donald played in all 13 games his freshman year and started mid year

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19 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

Remember Peria Jerry? He had comparable stats and similar play. Another thing of note was a knee injury that sidelined Oliver for four games. Donald was an iron man.

again, this is a top 15 DT with knee injury this year, lack of size and very few sacks against cream puff opponents. 

Obviously the combine will reveal a lot including medical issues, his speed and explosiveness. I’ve watched him a lot. I like his first step, he hustles but I don’t see a very refined pass rusher. I see a guy getting by on athleticism. The NFL is a whole different beast.

That said, if we get him I’ll root for him.

Sorta related but why are we all looking at an undersized 3Tech when we have Jarrett already? 

So you just wondered why he didn’t produce as much, but bring up he missed 4 games.

Averaging around 5 sacks a season as a DT is not bad at all. Plus all those pressures he had. I mean I would be concerned if he had one or two all year, but he’s consistently in the backfield even though he’s being doubled nearly every snap.

I just wouldn’t rely on sack numbers being an indicator of success in the NFL. Remember all these guys? Shaq Lawson, Shawn Oakman, DeMarcus Walker, Kevin Dodd, Mike Rose, Shane Ray, Charles Harris, Michael Sam, Bjoern Werner, Jarvis Jones, Will Sutton. All of them had 10+ sacks in a season in college.

He may be undersized, but he doesn’t play it. He’s the one exception to the rule of smaller DTs being liabilities versus the run. I honestly think he holds up versus the run better than Wilkins. And imagine him with added weight like Donald added. And let’s see how he checks out medically. Pretty sure bruised knees aren’t that serious. 

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2 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

What’s wrong with the quote I added?

You changed some verbiage as well. Again Donald wasn’t a starter until late. In his freshman year. Still wasn’t a bad year btw. He broke out in his sophomore year. Got banged around hard in junior year and he faced  triple teams at times as well. His senior year no one could stop him.

i like Oliver.hes got a lot of great attributes, but he consistently doesn’t get sacks and I’ve seen him run by the QB or pushed past a few times. The question is can he finish the sack. That’s a big deal when discussing an undersized DT in top 10-15 of draft.

just saying 

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19 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

What? What a horse shat comparison. Donald barely played in his freshman year. Lol

and obviously you never watched him play with the last comment. 

I get it you’ve got a draft crush. If we get him I hope you’re right. But this reply is hilarious. What was Oliver’s high in sacks again? 5.5 right? Compared to two seasons of major college production of 11 sacks by Donald.

Oliver hasn’t quite affected the QB like Donald, but few have.  If Donald is the comp we are in good shape.  

But don’t sell Oliver short.  In Donald’s incredible senior year he had 28 TFL.  Oliver had 22 TFL as an 18 year old freshman.  Both disrupt the pocket.  Oliver was in the backfield as much as Donald their 1st 3 years in college.  We need more players who can move the pocket and get offenses in 2nd & long.

Edited by Falconsin2012

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16 minutes ago, A-TowN.- said:

So you just wondered why he didn’t produce as much, but bring up he missed 4 games.

Averaging around 5 sacks a season as a DT is not bad at all. Plus all those pressures he had. I mean I would be concerned if he had one or two all year, but he’s consistently in the backfield even though he’s being doubled nearly every snap.

I just wouldn’t rely on sack numbers being an indicator of success in the NFL. Remember all these guys? Shaq Lawson, Shawn Oakman, DeMarcus Walker, Kevin Dodd, Mike Rose, Shane Ray, Charles Harris, Michael Sam, Bjoern Werner, Jarvis Jones, Will Sutton. All of them had 10+ sacks in a season in college.

He may be undersized, but he doesn’t play it. He’s the one exception to the rule of smaller DTs being liabilities versus the run. I honestly think he holds up versus the run better than Wilkins. And imagine him with added weight like Donald added. And let’s see how he checks out medically. Pretty sure bruised knees aren’t that serious. 

Great post.  And Oliver at 292 is already bigger than Donald

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12 hours ago, MSalmon said:

I’m not looking up right now. But I recall a bunch of TFLs, but very few sacks. Definitely an active DT. In some of the vids I watched him he missed the QB several times but disrupted pocket. 

Hes light with a fast step, but as of now I can’t say hesam effective pass rushershe’s

And it sails over his head

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11 hours ago, MSalmon said:

So was Donald. Again, I’m not saying the kid isn’t talented but we’re talking a top 15–maybe top 10 pick. I think he played at 275 pounds. 

There is a lot I like about his game, but for every Aaron Donald there are many undersized quick guys who end up ok at best in nfl. 

Olivers lack of sacks bug me more than Donald due to level of competition.

 

Will Sutton 

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1 hour ago, maorifalcon said:

Will Sutton 

There’s one light pass rusher who became JAG in nfl

or Glenn Dorsey who ended up adding a bunch of weight in NFL. 

Or even babineux, our falcon. Babs was 280 coming in the league, was a huge pass rusher in college. Ended up an ok player.

The list of undersized and overdrafted DTs goes on forever

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13 hours ago, A-TowN.- said:

So you just wondered why he didn’t produce as much, but bring up he missed 4 games.

Averaging around 5 sacks a season as a DT is not bad at all. Plus all those pressures he had. I mean I would be concerned if he had one or two all year, but he’s consistently in the backfield even though he’s being doubled nearly every snap.

I just wouldn’t rely on sack numbers being an indicator of success in the NFL. Remember all these guys? Shaq Lawson, Shawn Oakman, DeMarcus Walker, Kevin Dodd, Mike Rose, Shane Ray, Charles Harris, Michael Sam, Bjoern Werner, Jarvis Jones, Will Sutton. All of them had 10+ sacks in a season in college.

He may be undersized, but he doesn’t play it. He’s the one exception to the rule of smaller DTs being liabilities versus the run. I honestly think he holds up versus the run better than Wilkins. And imagine him with added weight like Donald added. And let’s see how he checks out medically. Pretty sure bruised knees aren’t that serious. 

People are thinking way too hard about Ed Oliver. That's the only reason he has a shot at falling to us. 

I've seen you're a huge Montez Sweat fan, @MSalmon. I respect your opinion, so don't take this the wrong way, but if you seriously think Sweat is more worthy of the #14 pick than Oliver, you need to start watching both again...and try to act like you've never seen either before.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Francis York Morgan said:

People are thinking way too hard about Ed Oliver. That's the only reason he has a shot at falling to us. 

I've seen you're a huge Montez Sweat fan, @MSalmon. I respect your opinion, so don't take this the wrong way, but if you seriously think Sweat is more worthy of the #14 pick than Oliver, you need to start watching both again...and try to act like you've never seen either before.

 

 

I don’t take it the wrong way, I just disagree.  I respect your opinion too. Just not on this one :)

I actually doubt that Oliver falls to our pick. But iLl stand by my assessment of him after watching a lot of tape and games on him—I think Oliver is the latest in a long line of undersized and athletic DTs that doesn’t impress in the NFL but teams will overdraft him in search of the next Donald.

 

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1 hour ago, Francis York Morgan said:

People are thinking way too hard about Ed Oliver. That's the only reason he has a shot at falling to us. 

I've seen you're a huge Montez Sweat fan, @MSalmon. I respect your opinion, so don't take this the wrong way, but if you seriously think Sweat is more worthy of the #14 pick than Oliver, you need to start watching both again...and try to act like you've never seen either before.

 

 

Actually, I think Sweatt could be a likely target and available. If this draft fell out this way, I’m Greedy Williams all day 

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3 hours ago, Francis York Morgan said:

People are thinking way too hard about Ed Oliver. That's the only reason he has a shot at falling to us. 

I've seen you're a huge Montez Sweat fan, @MSalmon. I respect your opinion, so don't take this the wrong way, but if you seriously think Sweat is more worthy of the #14 pick than Oliver, you need to start watching both again...and try to act like you've never seen either before.

 

 

This dude does not play like his size at all. I mean on double teams he’s still getting push and being disruptive. Super explosive out of his stance, and his combination of quickness and power is ridiculous. It’s crazy how he’s able to win with raw power and quickness despite perfect hand technique. He’s already a monster, but I think he will become even better with the addition of some clean weight and NFL coaching. 

 

1 hour ago, MSalmon said:

I don’t take it the wrong way, I just disagree.  I respect your opinion too. Just not on this one :)

I actually doubt that Oliver falls to our pick. But iLl stand by my assessment of him after watching a lot of tape and games on him—I think Oliver is the latest in a long line of undersized and athletic DTs that doesn’t impress in the NFL but teams will overdraft him in search of the next Donald.

You say this as if there’s been a plethora of comparable players to Oliver. I’m curious, who compares to Oliver that has come out the last few drafts? Please list out this long line, because I can’t remember any that compare to Oliver traits wise. 

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6 minutes ago, A-TowN.- said:

This dude does not play like his size at all. I mean on double teams he’s still getting push and being disruptive. Super explosive out of his stance, and his combination of quickness and power is ridiculous. It’s crazy how he’s able to win with raw power and quickness despite perfect hand technique. He’s already a monster, but I think he will become even better with the addition of some clean weight and NFL coaching. 

 

You say this as if there’s been a plethora of comparable players to Oliver. I’m curious, who compares to Oliver that has come out the last few drafts? Please list out this long line, because I can’t remember any that compare to Oliver traits wise. 

Solomon thomas. Geno Atkins, Eddie Sutton, Jonathan Allen, Maurice Hurst, Grady Jarrett (who I think he comps too tbh), Rashem Green, Jonathan Bullard shall I keep going?

all undersized 3 tech types 

I put Atkins as he was pre Donald. You had Rod Coleman if we want to go way back.

whsts his competition level?

you were all over Glenn Dorsey over Matt Ryan in 08 I think?

Again, I don’t think he’s bad in the least. He has done great attributes. But where’s his sack production against inferior competition? I know he got double and triple teamed. But hey I guess Aaron Donald got single blockers in college, right? (Sarcasm)

 

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21 hours ago, CrimsonFalcon said:

I've seen Oliver and now Wilkins...shame we can't make both happen...

Both are 3T DTs. We need a 1T. Hopefully we take care of that in free agency. I believe these 290-300 pound 3Ts like Williams, Oliver, Simmons and Wilkins will get run over like McClain, Senat and Grady did. Just look at the four remaining teams in the playoffs. Three of em are top 10 rushing teams that will run the ball down your throat. The other one would have been if their RB hadn't beat a woman in a hotel lobby.

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2 hours ago, MSalmon said:

Actually, I think Sweatt could be a likely target and available. If this draft fell out this way, I’m Greedy Williams all day 

Man I respect your opinion, but you’re okay with a guy in a). Sweat who has flexibility and tight hip concerns and b). Williams who is super raw and inconsistent, but not Oliver? I guess it’s a personal preference on what limitations you’re willing to overlook when drafting a prospect, but I have more concerns about those two than Oliver. 

 

2 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

Solomon thomas. Geno Atkins, Eddie Sutton, Jonathan Allen, Maurice Hurst, Grady Jarrett (who I think he comps too tbh), Rashem Green, Jonathan Bullard shall I keep going?

all undersized 3 tech types 

I put Atkins as he was pre Donald. You had Rod Coleman if we want to go way back.

whsts his competition level?

you were all over Glenn Dorsey over Matt Ryan in 08 I think?

I’m sorry, but none of those guys compare to Oliver skill set wise. I never saw any of the guys you listed successfully take on double teams and hold their own the way Oliver does. Not even Grady.

Great, you have to go back 10 years to when I was 18 and didn’t really scout to find a miss. Go back and you’ll see I also wanted JJ Watt, Aaron Donald, and Khalil Mack with our first picks. Everyone has hits and misses. I’m not a fan of calling people out based on hindsight. 

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19 hours ago, MSalmon said:

I’m not looking up right now. But I recall a bunch of TFLs, but very few sacks. Definitely an active DT. In some of the vids I watched him he missed the QB several times but disrupted pocket. 

Hes light with a fast step, but as of now I can’t say hesam effective pass rushershe’s

Most of the 3Ts are low sack guys. Quinnen, Wilkins, Oliver, Simmons, Gary Tillery, Jones, etc. They are around that 4-6 sack range. A couple might have had 7-8 in one year. And that was against college boys.

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20 minutes ago, A-TowN.- said:

Man I respect your opinion, but you’re okay with a guy in a). Sweat who has flexibility and tight hip concerns and b). Williams who is super raw and inconsistent, but not Oliver? I guess it’s a personal preference on what limitations you’re willing to overlook when drafting a prospect, but I have more concerns about those two than Oliver. 

 

I’m sorry, but none of those guys compare to Oliver skill set wise. I never saw any of the guys you listed successfully take on double teams and hold their own the way Oliver does. Not even Grady.

Great, you have to go back 10 years to when I was 18 and didn’t really scout to find a miss. Go back and you’ll see I also wanted JJ Watt, Aaron Donald, and Khalil Mack with our first picks. Everyone has hits and misses. I’m not a fan of calling people out based on hindsight. 

I respect your opinions too. I think Sweat is a realistic target at 14. I think greedy fits our system. 

I’m just not sold on Oliver. Won’t be first time that I’m wrong lol

Donald? You must have not watched him in college. And Jon Allen has almost exact same skill set he dropped in draft due to knee injuries. Everyone on that list was taking on double teams. 

He’s not that rare, and hes not even playing against the top shelf collegiate talent. He played the season according to some reports at 275. He’s up to 290 supposedly. Do you honestly think he’s going to wreck the league the way Donald did? 

Lets see the combine results. If he runs a 4.68 forty, bench presses 35 times and 116 broad then lets have that conversation. 

But agajn, his opponents include SMU, Army, Tulane and Navy. That’s not exactly a powerhouse schedule. Why do low a sack totals? 

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19 hours ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

At the end of the day, while I prefer Ford...if the pick is OL or DL, I’ll be fine.  And the talent available should be good value at #14

Ford will be a Top 10 pick due to this being a weak OL class

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18 hours ago, RoddyWhite84 said:

Mine too i can live with wilkins or oliver..but i really need to see atlanta fortify the o-line

It’s pure speculation at the moment my biggest reason for going Oline is because I want to see more of the youth movement and shed some salary so we can spend it somewhere else.

Like always FA will dictate the direction we go in with regards to the draft.

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36 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

I respect your opinions too. I think Sweat is a realistic target at 14. I think greedy fits our system. 

I’m just not sold on Oliver. Won’t be first time that I’m wrong lol

Donald? You must have not watched him in college. And Jon Allen has almost exact same skill set he dropped in draft due to knee injuries. Everyone on that list was taking on double teams. 

He’s not that rare, and hes not even playing against the top shelf collegiate talent. He played the season according to some reports at 275. He’s up to 290 supposedly. Do you honestly think he’s going to wreck the league the way Donald did? 

Lets see the combine results. If he runs a 4.68 forty, bench presses 35 times and 116 broad then lets have that conversation. 

But agajn, his opponents include SMU, Army, Tulane and Navy. That’s not exactly a powerhouse schedule. Why do low a sack totals? 

I’d rather target Polite if we are considering edge guys. This is a pretty solid edge class though.

I never said they didn’t see double teams. I said successfully take them on as in Oliver still holds his ground versus them. I saw Grady and Atkins both get blown off the ball by just one lineman at times, let alone two. 

What are you questioning with Donald? I never had an issue with him. Of course I watched him man, don’t be silly. I wrote a report about him on a Falcons draft site saying he had elite traits and was a top 5 pick months before the combine. Ask Scott Carasik. I (and a few others) wanted him as our first pick.

I think Oliver’s abilities are special, maybe not as elite as Donald, but it is still rare for a man his size to hold their own versus double teams on running downs. I see him closer to 280 lbs as well, and I get why you’re concerned about him finishing sacks & the level of competition. I think those are valid concerns, but I still believe his upside is insane due to his raw strength and quickness. If he was getting blown off the ball versus the run, I’d agree, but he isn’t. He has all those TFL despite the attention he commands.

I can’t think of a player since Donald who has this blend of traits. Usually undersized guys are good pass rushers and liabilities versus the run. Oliver isn’t and neither was Donald. Donald was clearly a better prospect, but Oliver is still special IMO. 

I mean he came on as a Freshman with 22.5 TFL, 5 sacks, 9 pass break ups, 7 hurries, and 3 FF. That’s insane, and he’s only been schemed against since. I get you want higher sacks numbers, but missing 4 games and being schemed against is a valid reason to see a drop off in stats. You said it yourself that he even missed some due to finishing concerns. That’s fixable a issue, especially with DQ and NFL coaching. Just imagine him polishing his hand usage and adding clean weight. 

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8 minutes ago, A-TowN.- said:

I’d rather target Polite if we are considering edge guys. This is a pretty solid edge class though.

I never said they didn’t see double teams. I said successfully take them on as in Oliver still holds his ground versus them. I saw Grady and Atkins both get blown off the ball by just one lineman at times, let alone two. 

What are you questioning with Donald? I never had an issue with him. Of course I watched him man, don’t be silly. I wrote a report about him on a Falcons draft site saying he had elite traits and was a top 5 pick months before the combine. Ask Scott Carasik. I (and a few others) wanted him as our first pick.

I think Oliver’s abilities are special, maybe not as elite as Donald, but it is still rare for a man his size to hold their own versus double teams on running downs. I see him closer to 280 lbs as well, and I get why you’re concerned about him finishing sacks & the level of competition. I think those are valid concerns, but I still believe his upside is insane due to his raw strength and quickness. If he was getting blown off the ball versus the run, I’d agree, but he isn’t. He has all those TFL despite the attention he commands.

I can’t think of a player since Donald who has this blend of traits. Usually undersized guys are good pass rushers and liabilities versus the run. Oliver isn’t and neither was Donald. Donald was clearly a better prospect, but Oliver is still special IMO. 

I mean he came on as a Freshman with 22.5 TFL, 5 sacks, 9 pass break ups, 7 hurries, and 3 FF. That’s insane, and he’s only been schemed against since. I get you want higher sacks numbers, but missing 4 games and being schemed against is a valid reason to see a drop off in stats. You said it yourself that he even missed some due to finishing concerns. That’s fixable a issue, especially with DQ and NFL coaching. Just imagine him polishing his hand usage and adding clean weight. 

Good write up. I didn’t add Peria Jerry a player who had he not been injured could have been special.

i do like Oliver. Just not sure he is so dominant in the NFL.

No questions on Donald. i loved Donald too. Most in their right mind did lol

but he was a very refined pass rusher and complete player coming out of college. Oliver...I’m not there yet

on edge guys I do love polite. Josh Allen is elite. I wouldn’t mind a trade up for him believe it or not. Ferrell? I’m skeptical of those Clemson DEs

Zach Allen looks good.

im still forming my opinions on Oliver like I said. Maybe right coaching and he finishes better. 

Do you like him at RDE moving inside on passing downs? Or purely inside?

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55 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Most of the 3Ts are low sack guys. Quinnen, Wilkins, Oliver, Simmons, Gary Tillery, Jones, etc. They are around that 4-6 sack range. A couple might have had 7-8 in one year. And that was against college boys.

Oliver’s low sack totals stand out more to me because of level of competition. He is gifted without a doubt, however

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