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TheDirtyWordII

A TDWII Observation: Whoever was hired as OC…it’s more about Ryan, not the offense…

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There's some good points there. Matt is the only constant cog over the greatest period of Falcons success ever. He doesn't need a flashy OC to succeed. He is the flashy OC. Fix the line...get Free healthy and this could be an exciting offense. Gameplan and prep better for each game, and they could be unstoppable. It wasn't just Shanny's system it was his ability to push and challenge Matt into greatness that made 2016 so great. It's hard to imagine that happening again in 2017. 

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Posted (edited)

Good outlook definitely believe both Koetter and Ryan have had some discussion and probably some excitement there to work together again and it is true that Ryan is a different QB then his previous tenure and is now fully more comfortable being directly involved in all aspects. We still got to touchy up the O-line and hope for a healthy freeman. I'm most excited about Quinn handing off some of the overall involvement and getting be primarly focused on Defense with it's planning, development, and game-day I believe with Quinn being in charge and a healthy Jones, Neal, Allen back and a few tweaks this Defense can be up there next year.

Edited by malak07

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10 minutes ago, Jesus said:

There's some good points there. Matt is the only constant cog over the greatest period of Falcons success ever. He doesn't need a flashy OC to succeed. He is the flashy OC. Fix the line...get Free healthy and this could be an exciting offense. Gameplan and prep better for each game, and they could be unstoppable. It wasn't just Shanny's system it was his ability to push and challenge Matt into greatness that made 2016 so great. It's hard to imagine that happening again in 2017. 

I think we had an exciting offense this year...Quinn talked about consistency though.

For a lot of us, we harken back to 2016 because that's when we saw saw/witnessed something special.  The one component of that team that sticks in my mind was how from the bye week on (Week 12)...we scored an opening drive TD in every game.  Consistency can still be explosive.

And I think Quinn harkens back to that too...I don't think he wants to acknowledge that 2016 and that offense was because of Shanahan.  Not when he still has a significant portion of the core of that offense still there (not to mention an additional piece like Ridley).

Even Julio admitted this TC that it was night and day between 2017 TC and 2018 TC in terms of Sark being comfortable and knowing the 'team'.  But his experience and commitment to certain principles was evidently lacking (for DQ).  So if you're starting over...don't start over.  Put the team and the offense in the hands of your franchise MVP QB and ride with that - give him the support and collaboration tools he needs to build it.

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13 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

I think we had an exciting offense this year...Quinn talked about consistency though.

For a lot of us, we harken back to 2016 because that's when we saw saw/witnessed something special.  The one component of that team that sticks in my mind was how from the bye week on (Week 12)...we scored an opening drive TD in every game.  Consistency can still be explosive.

And I think Quinn harkens back to that too...I don't think he wants to acknowledge that 2016 and that offense was because of Shanahan.  Not when he still has a significant portion of the core of that offense still there (not to mention an additional piece like Ridley).

Even Julio admitted this TC that it was night and day between 2017 TC and 2018 TC in terms of Sark being comfortable and knowing the 'team'.  But his experience and commitment to certain principles was evidently lacking (for DQ).  So if you're starting over...don't start over.  Put the team and the offense in the hands of your franchise MVP QB and ride with that - give him the support and collaboration tools he needs to build it.

The offense had moments of greatness and moments of head scratching nuttiness. Maybe sark never got his head around the proper way to adapt the offense, maybe the loss of Freeman was too much. The consistency of 2016 was a once in a lifetime thing. No reason why they can't aim for that again. Get healthy, fix the holes and work on fundamentals. 

I didn't realize how well Ridley did this year until I looked at his final stats 10 TDs and 800 yards for a rookie in an offense with Julio Jones is pretty great. I can't wait for his explosion next year.

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Just now, VTCrunkler said:

in FA or draft?  im leaning FA.  or OT in first pick..

I dunno. If you want a really good guard in FA they are gonna cost you a lot. Do they want to throw $10 mill at an FA? Then again in the draft do rookie OL workout well in their first year.

I wouldn't be surprised if they resign Letrive just because he is there and familiar, despite injury history.

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22 minutes ago, Jesus said:

I dunno. If you want a really good guard in FA they are gonna cost you a lot. Do they want to throw $10 mill at an FA? Then again in the draft do rookie OL workout well in their first year.

I wouldn't be surprised if they resign Letrive just because he is there and familiar, despite injury history.

i can def. see us resigning Levitre for good or worse.  What say you about Schraeder kicking inside?  

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1 minute ago, VTCrunkler said:

i can def. see us resigning Levitre for good or worse.  What say you about Schraeder kicking inside?  

It will be interesting to see what was wrong with Schraeder. Was he playing hurt? Regressed? Or who knows what? He's under contract but do guys normally do better moving from tackle to guard? I remember the horror of moving Baker inside. Someone said Schraeder does better with a TE helping. Maybe Mularkey helps with that.

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47 minutes ago, Jesus said:

It will be interesting to see what was wrong with Schraeder. Was he playing hurt? Regressed? Or who knows what? He's under contract but do guys normally do better moving from tackle to guard? I remember the horror of moving Baker inside. Someone said Schraeder does better with a TE helping. Maybe Mularkey helps with that.

That's enigma. Something was seriously wrong with that picture. You bring a good point t up re: malarkey. I think we released flood too. May help with more te help. Guess we can correlate the role Toilolo had with Schraeders success. Totally forgot we moved baker inside. What happened to him inside?

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8 minutes ago, VTCrunkler said:

That's enigma. Something was seriously wrong with that picture. You bring a good point t up re: malarkey. I think we released flood too. May help with more te help. Guess we can correlate the role Toilolo had with Schraeders success. Totally forgot we moved baker inside. What happened to him inside?

It was one game, bears I think, and he got destroyed. I think Matt got safetied in that game.

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Great thread OP.

i think management finally decided to quit ******* with their Franchise QB’s head bringing in alot of new concepts, and trust he’s got all the developed skillset he’s ever gonna need from the previous 4 OC’s and 10+ years of experience (dang I feel old just typing that....has it really been that long?). Bottom line, I agree he’s a finished product, and a dang good one at that.

Let him flow with what he’s most comfortable in, as well as whom he’s most comfortable with. It’s a big reason brady’s Done so well, plus like you pointed out, Manning.

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1 hour ago, VTCrunkler said:

i can def. see us resigning Levitre for good or worse.  What say you about Schraeder kicking inside?  

He costs too much money to experiment. I rather curb Schraeder and sign a legit OG.

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3 hours ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

Does the name Tom Moore ring a bell?

Moore was the Indianapolis Colts OC from 1998-2010.  Moore wasn’t seen as any type of offensive genius, but it was his relationship and synergy with Peyton Manning that made him indispensable to the Colts during that time.

When Manning went to Denver…his first OC was Mike McCoy.  McCoy had been the OC there for 3 seasons prior to Manning’s arrival.  When Manning balled out…McCoy became one of those ‘hot head coaching candidates’.  He got the SD Chargers HC gig – that didn’t go so well.  In 2017 and 2018, McCoy got fired from his NFL OC positions mid-season (DEN & ARI).  Adam Gase was the next wunderkind to ‘guide’ Manning.  His 3-year run as HC of the Dolphins was the definition of non-descript.

In GB…the reason why Mike McCarthy essentially was fired was because he no longer was on the same page as his franchise QB, Aaron Rodgers who notoriously became the ‘Audible King’ when plays were relayed from the sideline.  But once upon a time, McCarthy was seen as a great offensive architect.

I remember a spot on MNF from a few years back that spotlighted the pre-game preparation of Drew Brees/Sean Payton/Pete Carmichael.  Brees pretty much ran the meeting.  Yes…there was collaboration.   But it was Brees dictating what plays he liked in what situations and what he would like to see called.

Anybody know who Philip Rivers OC is?  Ken Whisenhunt.  Not exactly an innovative offensive whizz (pun potentially intended), but a guy endorsed by Rivers as one he can work with…build an offense together with.

Yes…in 2015, Matt Ryan needed to be, for lack of better word ‘saved’.  Just completing his Age 29 season, he’d just come off a 2 year stretch where the Falcons deteriorated from NFCCG Host to 10-22.  Mike Smith had been fired and a new regime was being installed.  And even with regard to the entire body of his work…his career YPA stood at a pedestrian 7.2.  Ryan felt like he had a career that had stalled.

4 years later, Ryan is a different player.  A different person.  Under Shanahan and Sark, he improved his completion rate while adding almost a full yard to his YPA.  He won an MVP…took the Falcons within a whisker of their first Championship.  Kyle Shanahan was an innovative, young offensive mind that helped open up Ryan’s abilities.  It took awhile (a season)…but once it took hold – Wow!  Ryan finally exploded.

So the Matt Ryan that Dirk Koetter will now work with again, is not the same Ryan he last coached in 2014.  When Koetter came on board, Ryan wasn’t a finished product.  Now he is.

His charge now (vs 2012) won’t be to mold him.  Koetter wasn't hired to be an Offensive Coordinator so much as he was an Offensive Collaborator; to assist Ryan in leveraging the weapons at his disposal (personnel, scheme, knowledge) to build a balanced and explosive attack.  One that controls the pace and tempo of each game.

Ultimately, the hiring of Koetter was a nod to the fact that at this juncture familiarity and trust was a critical competitive advantage for his candidacy.  It’s certainly possible that Ryan and a guy like Adam Gase could have worked together.  But Ryan is bought into Koetter, he’s said so.  Ryan isn’t going to show up and be the pupil in this scenario.  In a sense, the offense is now his.  He’ll be able to remember some of the specific vertical game concepts that Koetter is known for and be able to work with Koetter (as well as Julio) to integrate that into ‘Ryan’s Offense’.

We remember that Sark was brought into to run Shanahan’s offense. The issue with Sark ultimately came down to learning curve.  Yes, he was better in 2018 than he was in 2017.  But with one year of NFL experience under his belt (2004 as OAK QB Coach) before being hired, ultimately DQ decided he miscalculated - the learning curve was too steep.  He also knew that another miscalculation means Arthur Blank will decide he miscalculated as well.

The hiring of Dirk Koetter is a nod to the fact that the offense, and perhaps the Falcons as they're now constituted are firmly in Matt Ryan’s hands now. 

Well this makes me more at ease about hiring Koetter. How about you @Knight of God? I would think this means they're keeping the concepts and philosophy that made the offense so successful in 2016.

I hope you're right man. 

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2 hours ago, JerseyNo12 said:

Well this makes me more at ease about hiring Koetter. How about you @Knight of God? I would think this means they're keeping the concepts and philosophy that made the offense so successful in 2016.

I hope you're right man. 

Rise Up!!!

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6 hours ago, Jesus said:

It was one game, bears I think, and he got destroyed. I think Matt got safetied in that game.

We have never really excelled vs the Bears.  They always seem to give our offense  fits.  Definitely during the Urlacher era and even during the M. Glennon era.

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6 hours ago, falcons007 said:

He costs too much money to experiment. I rather curb Schraeder and sign a legit OG.

so you think hes done?  no restructuring?  

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The only thing Kyle did differently was use motion to help Ryan identify rushers and double teams.. I'm not a OC but why was it so hard for Sark to use motion and can/will Dirk do it? 

Maybe it adds another level to play calling, but if DK lines up plays and dosnt use Julio, Ridley, or Sanu to move around and help Ryan adjust to coverage will anything actually change? 

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27 minutes ago, ⚡Slumerican⚡ said:

The only thing Kyle did differently was use motion to help Ryan identify rushers and double teams.. I'm not a OC but why was it so hard for Sark to use motion and can/will Dirk do it? 

Maybe it adds another level to play calling, but if DK lines up plays and dosnt use Julio, Ridley, or Sanu to move around and help Ryan adjust to coverage will anything actually change? 

Or line up Julio in the slot. Shanny would somehow get him lined up with a LB.

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21 hours ago, VTCrunkler said:

That's enigma. Something was seriously wrong with that picture. You bring a good point t up re: malarkey. I think we released flood too. May help with more te help. Guess we can correlate the role Toilolo had with Schraeders success. Totally forgot we moved baker inside. What happened to him inside?

If I'm recalling correctly, it was against the Panthers and Baker got Matt hit or sacked 3 times in two series. I don't think the experiment went the entire game because he was getting worked so bad. 

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24 minutes ago, The O.D.B said:

If I'm recalling correctly, it was against the Panthers and Baker got Matt hit or sacked 3 times in two series. I don't think the experiment went the entire game because he was getting worked so bad. 

Yep.  That would spell the quick end of that experiment.  Its counter intuitive because he would be more apt to play inside re: tyrannasaurus arms and all.

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