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sandtrap

Some Overlooked Details

21 posts in this topic

I think there are a couple of points that people are looking past that are pretty significant. I'm not saying this is a home run but I don't see it as such a terrible move.

1. Quinn was very specific about the influence that Ryan had in the decision. He specifically stated that Ryan had input on what to look for, not necessarily WHO to look for. Ryan played well under Koetter and at times even behind makeshift o-lines. You guys do remember we had Sam Baker and Lamar Holmes right? Not that it's significantly better right now but I trust that we'll go heavy on the trenches in the draft and hopefully free agency as well. I trust that with a veteran like Alex Mack at center we can hopefully bring guys along quickly. 

2. When asked about why he picked Kyle Shanahan he said that he was the one OC that gave him fits. That his offenses were difficult to defend against. In his interview Quinn also explained how Koetter's offenses were tough even though I think it's safe to say that the offensive talent at Koetter's disposal for the last 3 years isn't even comparable to what we have on offense here. Remember he's competed against Dirk for 3 years now. He also mentioned that it was also before he came to the Falcons, remember we played Seattle in that playoff game where Koetter's offense bested Quinn's defense. This isn't some random coach that he's just watching film on. He has experience playing against and having to defend his offenses. That leads to the next point.

3. Koetter has a lot of experience playing in the NFC South. This can't be diminished. He played the Saints tough with half *** talent in both their games. His experience in the NFCS is huge in terms of game planning. That already accounts for 6 games, nearly half the schedule were the opponents defense is well known by everyone on our staff.

4. I believe that Koetter was asked to incorporate some aspects of what's worked in this offense for the past 3 years in the WC offense. There's a reason why Greg Knapp is still on the staff. I honestly believe that one of the reasons why Koetter didn't accept right away had something to do with that. He has to make sure it was a change in his scheme that he could commit to. I think that he was also asked to accept Mularkey as his TE coach and likely Knapp as his QB coach. Those are considerations that understandably Koetter would have to give some thought to, hence the reason the offer wasn't accepted immediately.

5. I agree that it appears like there's too many cooks in the kitchen. However, with that said, I think it's great for Quinn to surround himself with experienced coaches. One thing we lacked last year was sound decision making from a game management perspective. I like that we'll have a former head coach with tremendous experience assisting Quinn in making those decisions since he'll have more on his plate with the defense.

6. Koetter's offense will be new to many players on our offense, yes, that's a fact. However, we have 2 incredible leaders on this team in Ryan and Julio who will get their 2 skill positions up to speed quickly. In addition we also have 2 players at key positions in Jake Matthews and Devonta Freeman who also have played in Koetter's offense. I can't think of better players at each of those positions besides maybe Center for the o-line, that could be assistant teachers to the other players at their respective positions. 

7. Koetter only passes and doesn't run much right? I don't agree with that sentiment. He hasn't had the best group of RBs to call plays for. Look at Tampa's roster and also look at who we were running out there in Steven Jackson and Jacquizz Rodgers. I know that he must've liked Rodgers and that's why he took him to Tampa but Jacquizz was never expected to be his starting RB. I think a healthy Devonta Freeman, Ito and possibly a bigger late round RB could be what Koetter needs to have a good running game. Doug Martin did have a 1400 yard season under Dirk Koetter in 2015. With the exception of 2013 we also had around 1400 rushing yards when he was our OC in 2012 and 2014. That was on the backs of a worn out Michael Turner and the downhill slippery slope a RB we had in Steven Jackson. We also employed Jason Snelling and Jacquizz Rodgers. A Healthy Devonta Freeman is miles away from those guys. On top of that this misconception that Koetter doesn't run the ball is nonsense. In his 12 years, his offenses have averaged 16th in rushing yards and 15th in rushing attempts. in 5 out of those 12 years, his offenses were ranked in the top 10 in rushing attempts, and 4 out of those 12 years he was in the top 10 in rushing yards. If you take out the 3 years as HC where he wasn't calling plays the numbers skew slightly better for Koetter, with an average raking of 14th in rushing attempts called and 15th in total rushing yards. In a third of his career as a play caller he had top 5 rushing yards. 

 

We'll have to wait and see obviously but I don't know that any of the other options for OC were homeruns in anyway. I think Koetter was one of the more desirable OC's available. I personally that Matt LaFleur would've been a great pick for OC but obviously he was interviewing to be a HC himself. Adam Gase is also interviewing for HC openings. Bevell interviewed here and it wasn't enough for Quinn and other decision makers to make him an offer right away. I'm going to hope for the best and most importantly, I hope that Ryan is upbeat about the hire. Ryan isn't someone who ever speaks negatively about anything but he always spoke highly of Koetter in a way that always made me believe that he truly did like Koetter. We could be negative, but I'm choosing to be hopeful.

Now that our vacancies are filled, next step is making sure that we resign the right guys (Grady and extending Julio) and then focusing on the trenches for FA and the draft.

 

 

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Bumping this because I got no feedback before lol. 

Also anothr point...

when asked about Koetter Ryan said that Koetter gave him confidence to believe in what they were doing and that if something felt right, to go with it. I think that has a lot to do with the game planning and changing things at the line of the defense gives a certain look. Ryan was great at hurry up, no huddle operations at the line. I think it’s safe to say he grew a lot as a QB under Koetter and that Kyle took advantage of that with great play calling. I’m pretty excited about the Koetter hire now more than I was when I wrote all these reasons above haha. 

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I keep reminded myself that our offense didn't suck when Koetter was here last time and the talent he has now is waaay better than before.

I think we will be back to scoring close to 30 points a game again next year. 

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27 minutes ago, Geneaut said:

My favorite unsaid point is that Sean Payton hates Koetter.

After Koetter beat him last year. One of my favorite things about Koetter is how much he enjoys beating the Aints.

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1 hour ago, JDaveG said:

Not a knock on you, because I agree with your points, but how come nobody ever says Sean McVay has too many cooks in the kitchen?

Because they are winning.  If they slip next season and get decimated by injuries like we did this year, I guarantee you will hear rumblings like that. 

On another note, the dumbest thing I hear in the NFL is that injuries don't matter.  Next man up.  Yes, to a certain extent it is next man up and a well coached team can survive one or two major(non-QB) injuries.  But when you lose both starting safeties, your starting MLB (captain of the D), starting RB, two starting interior OL, etc. you end up with a marginal team of backups. 

Look at the Chargers.  They have been riddled with injuries for the last 5 or so years and didn't make the playoffs.  Now this season they are healthy and they make it to the Divisional round. 

Look at the Saints.  Line was healthy all year and no major injuries.

Look at the Rams.  An injury to a DB they recovered from nicely but when TG went out for a few games at the end of the year they looked pedestrian on O.

Look at the Chiefs.  They lose Kareem Hunt and the offense takes a hit(non-injury) but its only one guy so they recover. 

Even the year we went to the SB, we lost Trufant but were otherwise healthy.  

With that said, despite ALL our injuries, we still went 7-9 and this team fought to the end of the season.  THAT is good coaching.  Quinn still has this team and provided we are healthy next year we are set up to make a run.        

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1 hour ago, JDaveG said:

Not a knock on you, because I agree with your points, but how come nobody ever says Sean McVay has too many cooks in the kitchen?

Cause he only has 1

 

raw

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9 minutes ago, thamill said:

On another note, the dumbest thing I hear in the NFL is that injuries don't matter.  Next man up.  Yes, to a certain extent it is next man up and a well coached team can survive one or two major(non-QB) injuries.  But when you lose both starting safeties, your starting MLB (captain of the D), starting RB, two starting interior OL, etc. you end up with a marginal team of backups. 

        

Exactly. CLEARLY that was all Sark's fault!

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20 minutes ago, thamill said:

Because they are winning.  If they slip next season and get decimated by injuries like we did this year, I guarantee you will hear rumblings like that. 

Probably.  But is there any doubt this is the same thing in reverse?

Wade Phillips has been a long-time DC and multi-time HC.  He runs that defense.  Does anyone really think Sean McVay has anything to do with the defense beyond the very basics?

McVay is a young coach who coaches his side of the ball and acts as the OC.  Quinn is a young coach who coaches his side of the ball and intends to act as the DC.  Both hired competent, long-term experienced coaches to handle the other side of the ball.  Is Quinn to be faulted because he simply got more of them (that was hilarious @ya_boi_j -- well done).

Further, is there any doubt that Koetter is going to run that offense?  Does anyone really think Mularkey or Knapp are going to be out there changing play calls in the headset?  Or modifying the play sheet?  They'll be heavily involved in game-planning, and they should be.  But that's a plus not a minus.  Koetter is still the OC.  He's running the show.  Mularkey is here to coach the TEs and help with the run game.  Did anyone ever complain about the run game when he was here the first time?

I fail to see these hires as anything but a positive, but people are all wankered up about them for no reason.  Yeah, I wanted Kubiak, right up until Kubiak didn't want to be here.  I also wanted Bevell, but Quinn has interviewed Darrell Bevell for 2 different positions and passed on him twice.  I trust him -- he knows football better than anyone on this board by a country mile.  He clearly wanted Koetter.  And if that's the case, I'm 100% cool with the hire.  There are no red flags.  There are no warning signs.  Koetter is a really, really good offensive coach.  Mularkey knows how to get a run game going, and not for nothing, Mularkey used a whole lot of zone when he was here the first time.  It's a great fit.  Knapp knows QBs.  They're talking about keeping the basic scheme intact, but Koetter will absolutely put his spin on it.

I was worried about Koetter at first because it seemed to not be a fit.  But I also believe Dan Quinn knows what he's doing.

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2 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Probably.  But is there any doubt this is the same thing in reverse?

Wade Phillips has been a long-time OC and multi-time HC.  He runs that defense.  Does anyone really think Sean McVay has anything to do with the defense beyond the very basics?

McVay is a young coach who coaches his side of the ball and acts as the OC.  Quinn is a young coach who coaches his side of the ball and intends to act as the DC.  Both hired competent, long-term experienced coaches to handle the other side of the ball.  Is Quinn to be faulted because he simply got more of them (that was hilarious @ya_boi_j -- well done).

Further, is there any doubt that Koetter is going to run that offense?  Does anyone really think Mularkey or Knapp are going to be out there changing play calls in the headset?  Or modifying the play sheet?  They'll be heavily involved in game-planning, and they should be.  But that's a plus not a minus.  Koetter is still the OC.  He's running the show.  Mularkey is here to coach the TEs and help with the run game.  Did anyone ever complain about the run game when he was here the first time?

I fail to see these hires as anything but a positive, but people are all wankered up about them for no reason.  Yeah, I wanted Kubiak, right up until Kubiak didn't want to be here.  I also wanted Bevell, but Quinn has interviewed Darrell Bevell for 2 different positions and passed on him twice.  I trust him -- he knows football better than anyone on this board by a country mile.  He clearly wanted Koetter.  And if that's the case, I'm 100% cool with the hire.  There are no red flags.  There are no warning signs.  Koetter is a really, really good offensive coach.  Mularkey knows how to get a run game going, and not for nothing, Mularkey used a whole lot of zone when he was here the first time.  It's a great fit.  Knapp knows QBs.  They're talking about keeping the basic scheme intact, but Koetter will absolutely put his spin on it.

I was worried about Koetter at first because it seemed to not be a fit.  But I also believe Dan Quinn knows what he's doing.

You meant DC obviously...In before someone calls you a ****** for no good reason

 

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3 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Probably.  But is there any doubt this is the same thing in reverse?

Wade Phillips has been a long-time OC and multi-time HC.  He runs that defense.  Does anyone really think Sean McVay has anything to do with the defense beyond the very basics?

McVay is a young coach who coaches his side of the ball and acts as the OC.  Quinn is a young coach who coaches his side of the ball and intends to act as the DC.  Both hired competent, long-term experienced coaches to handle the other side of the ball.  Is Quinn to be faulted because he simply got more of them (that was hilarious @ya_boi_j -- well done).

Further, is there any doubt that Koetter is going to run that offense?  Does anyone really think Mularkey or Knapp are going to be out there changing play calls in the headset?  Or modifying the play sheet?  They'll be heavily involved in game-planning, and they should be.  But that's a plus not a minus.  Koetter is still the OC.  He's running the show.  Mularkey is here to coach the TEs and help with the run game.  Did anyone ever complain about the run game when he was here the first time?

I fail to see these hires as anything but a positive, but people are all wankered up about them for no reason.  Yeah, I wanted Kubiak, right up until Kubiak didn't want to be here.  I also wanted Bevell, but Quinn has interviewed Darrell Bevell for 2 different positions and passed on him twice.  I trust him -- he knows football better than anyone on this board by a country mile.  He clearly wanted Koetter.  And if that's the case, I'm 100% cool with the hire.  There are no red flags.  There are no warning signs.  Koetter is a really, really good offensive coach.  Mularkey knows how to get a run game going, and not for nothing, Mularkey used a whole lot of zone when he was here the first time.  It's a great fit.  Knapp knows QBs.  They're talking about keeping the basic scheme intact, but Koetter will absolutely put his spin on it.

I was worried about Koetter at first because it seemed to not be a fit.  But I also believe Dan Quinn knows what he's doing.

i'm here about 3 days a week now. Catch me when i'm on fire

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Just now, WhenFalconsWin said:

You meant DC obviously...In before someone calls you a ****** for no good reason

 

Yes - fixed.

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33 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Probably.  But is there any doubt this is the same thing in reverse?

Wade Phillips has been a long-time DC and multi-time HC.  He runs that defense.  Does anyone really think Sean McVay has anything to do with the defense beyond the very basics?

McVay is a young coach who coaches his side of the ball and acts as the OC.  Quinn is a young coach who coaches his side of the ball and intends to act as the DC.  Both hired competent, long-term experienced coaches to handle the other side of the ball.  Is Quinn to be faulted because he simply got more of them (that was hilarious @ya_boi_j -- well done).

Further, is there any doubt that Koetter is going to run that offense?  Does anyone really think Mularkey or Knapp are going to be out there changing play calls in the headset?  Or modifying the play sheet?  They'll be heavily involved in game-planning, and they should be.  But that's a plus not a minus.  Koetter is still the OC.  He's running the show.  Mularkey is here to coach the TEs and help with the run game.  Did anyone ever complain about the run game when he was here the first time?

I fail to see these hires as anything but a positive, but people are all wankered up about them for no reason.  Yeah, I wanted Kubiak, right up until Kubiak didn't want to be here.  I also wanted Bevell, but Quinn has interviewed Darrell Bevell for 2 different positions and passed on him twice.  I trust him -- he knows football better than anyone on this board by a country mile.  He clearly wanted Koetter.  And if that's the case, I'm 100% cool with the hire.  There are no red flags.  There are no warning signs.  Koetter is a really, really good offensive coach.  Mularkey knows how to get a run game going, and not for nothing, Mularkey used a whole lot of zone when he was here the first time.  It's a great fit.  Knapp knows QBs.  They're talking about keeping the basic scheme intact, but Koetter will absolutely put his spin on it.

I was worried about Koetter at first because it seemed to not be a fit.  But I also believe Dan Quinn knows what he's doing.

Mr. Gambini, that is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection

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On ‎1‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 6:55 AM, JDaveG said:

Probably.  But is there any doubt this is the same thing in reverse?

Wade Phillips has been a long-time DC and multi-time HC.  He runs that defense.  Does anyone really think Sean McVay has anything to do with the defense beyond the very basics?

McVay is a young coach who coaches his side of the ball and acts as the OC.  Quinn is a young coach who coaches his side of the ball and intends to act as the DC.  Both hired competent, long-term experienced coaches to handle the other side of the ball.  Is Quinn to be faulted because he simply got more of them (that was hilarious @ya_boi_j -- well done).

There is no doubt.  I 100% agree.  We've all been watching NFL football long enough to realize that when you are winning, despite the actual reason why, you are getting lauded and highly praised.  Have a bad season?  Every decision you ever made that season is being criticized and you are made out to be an incompetent leader who never should have been hired in the first place.  There is a reason we are called FANs.  It's short for FANATIC.  LOL!! 

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On 1/15/2019 at 9:30 AM, Francis York Morgan said:

After Koetter beat him last year. One of my favorite things about Koetter is how much he enjoys beating the Aints.

OK, well I wasn't sold on the Koetter hire, but I am 100% on board now!

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