gazoo

Falcons look awesome at TE next year! Pro Bowl Hooper and emerging Saubert

89 posts in this topic

6 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

He’ll come up for contract extension in 2020.

Would you re-sign him at $9-10M/year based on how he’s played to date?

No, nor do I believe he would ask me to pay him that based on how he’s played to date. 

Plus we just finished 2018 season, so I think ...with respect...you’re a little ahead of yourself if worried about his next contract right now.

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6 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

Typical TATF. Once a player is in the dog house it’s hard to change the perception. Hooper was one of the most improved player on a roster when most players took a big step back.

Some expect at good TE to be lighting up the highlight reels with 70 yard TDs and huge plays throughout the year.

Expecations seem to be a serious issue with our fans as it relates to TE. I love my TE to be grinding our hard yards in the flat, taking big hits across middle accumulating 1st downs, keeping the chains moving while effectively blocking in the run game.

 

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10 minutes ago, gazoo said:

Some expect at good TE to be lighting up the highlight reels with 70 yard TDs and huge plays throughout the year.

Expecations seem to be a serious issue with our fans as it relates to TE. I love my TE to be grinding our hard yards in the flat, taking big hits across middle accumulating 1st downs, keeping the chains moving while effectively blocking in the run game.

 

Well they expect Hooper to be Ertz or Kelcee with 100 targets or more a year. Hooper isn’t the beat TE in the NFL but he played an important role on this offense. Heck there were many games falcons WR disappeared and Hooper bailed out the anemic offense. 

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Posted (edited)

32 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

But he was pretty bad in 2017...

“Falcons tight end Austin Hooper caught a lot of flak last season for dropping a few passes in key situations.

While it’s easy to focus on those mistakes (especially when they come at critical moments in the game), in general Hooper was actually a pretty reliable target for Matt Ryan to throw at in his second NFL season.

According to Pro Football Focus, Hooper had the fourth-highest catch rate of any tight end in the league last year. Only Benjamin Watson, Nick Boyle and Jordan Reed had a better rate.

Hooper was also an excellent outlet for Matt Ryan when he was pressured quickly. PFF says he had the second-highest passer rating among tight ends when targeted on throws released in 2.5 seconds or less after the snap.

 

Edited by Falconsin2012
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6 minutes ago, gazoo said:

Some expect at good TE to be lighting up the highlight reels with 70 yard TDs and huge plays throughout the year.

Expecations seem to be a serious issue with our fans as it relates to TE. I love my TE to be grinding our hard yards in the flat, taking big hits across middle accumulating 1st downs, keeping the chains moving while effectively blocking in the run game.

 

You mean like this huge play? :ninja:

https://www.upi.com/Atlanta-Falcons-Austin-Hooper-stiff-arms-Chicago-Bears-Quintin-Demps-to-the-ground/1601505133195/

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1 minute ago, Falconsin2012 said:

I remember watching that game as the eye of Hurricane Irma was 2-3 hours away.  The cable kept going in & out...but it was on for that game winning play

I saw it live at the stadium. It felt like the offense was gonna explode that year. Ryan looked all MVP on that play.

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8 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

“Falcons tight end Austin Hooper caught a lot of flak last season for dropping a few passes in key situations.

While it’s easy to focus on those mistakes (especially when they come at critical moments in the game), in general Hooper was actually a pretty reliable target for Matt Ryan to throw at in his second NFL season.

According to Pro Football Focus, Hooper had the fourth-highest catch rate of any tight end in the league last year. Only Benjamin Watson, Nick Boyle and Jordan Reed had a better rate.

Hooper was also an excellent outlet for Matt Ryan when he was pressured quickly. PFF says he had the second-highest passer rating among tight ends when targeted on throws released in 2.5 seconds or less after the snap.

 

Shouldn’t you quote the whole article that goes onto say he was the 29th ranked  TE via PFF?  I mean if we’re quoting articles and all...we can all Google after all.

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Again, we boil it down to expectations.

im not expecting Hooper to be Travis Kelce, Jordon Reed, Tony G or Jimmy Graham ( Hooper actually outplayed Jimmy Graham this year with more yards and twice the TD passes) 

Im expecting Hooper to be an 800 yard, 6-8 TD, 40 1st down tough nosed chains moving TE who blocks well for our RBs.

I’m expecting Saubert to be a complementary piece to #1 Hooper’s production above with 250 yards, 2 or 3 TDs, 20 1st downs and a good blocker for our running backs. 

Thats an awesome tandem at TE for us if these numbers hold. And we won’t be paying Jimmy Graham, Travis Kelce or Jordon Reed type money for them either. 

If all your expectations are of a good player is bells, whistles and highlight reels, then we are on a different page with expecations.

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10 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

Shouldn’t you quote the whole article that goes onto say he was the 29th ranked  TE via PFF?  I mean if we’re quoting articles and all...we can all Google after all.

You said he was bad.  I was showing data that prove he wasn’t...parts of his game are elite.  

And Google is everyone’s friend, not just mine.  

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8 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

You said he was bad.  I was showing data that prove he wasn’t...parts of his game are elite.  

And Google is everyone’s friend, not just mine.  

You quoted an article focusing on a data point (a somewhat irrelevant one at that sans additional context) and omitted the part that essentially said ‘on the flip side, everything else was bad...’

If you’re going to be blatant about it, at least quote an article that shows on page 3/4 on your search.

 

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3 minutes ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

You quoted an article focusing on a data point (a somewhat irrelevant one at that sans additional context) and omitted the part that essentially said ‘on the flip side, everything else was bad...’

 

Ranking 15th in receiving yards for TE’s when you are competing with Julio, Sanu, Gabriel, Free/Teco is a good season.  Was he perfect?  No.  But he was a solid piece

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2 hours ago, Yo_Lover said:

This year was supposed to be his breakout :rolleyes:

Lol ...well some folks are still waiting on Beasley to break out 

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Posted (edited)

I see this two ways. Hooper can improve and become closer to a PB caliber TE; which he isn't far from really, or remains a very good NFL starting TE. I see him as a guy that's good at most things with room to improve in some weak areas of his game and to reach a higher level of play. Doesn't have to become something he isn't. Just maximize his mold by adding elements to his game to become a tad more dynamic.

At the same time, it'd be good to have another TE come in and become a more established weapon and blocker; if possible, to enable more 2 TE sets at minimum when strategy preparing for or adjusting during a game would benefit by going multiple TE looks. 13 or 12 personnel, etc.

Edited by Ergo Proxy

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1 hour ago, gazoo said:

What kind of production would you expect this 4th round TE you suggest would be picked to get in 2019?  What about 2020? 

Pleae give me your general idea of expectations on this 4th round TE pick.

To challenge Hooper and his mediocrity.  He shouldn’t be safe at all.  He may be in good with Matt, but I’m a firm believer of competition bringing the best out of people.  There are a fair share of solid tight ends coming out of this draft, and I feel offensively Quinn will do a lot to make sure that Matt has everything he needs considering this next season is truly playoffs or get fired for him.

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1 hour ago, Vandy said:

No, nor do I believe he would ask me to pay him that based on how he’s played to date. 

Plus we just finished 2018 season, so I think ...with respect...you’re a little ahead of yourself if worried about his next contract right now.

Hmmm...in 2015, Charles Clay secured a 5 year $38M deal.  Trey Burton just signed for $8M AAV and he was PHI’s TE2.  If Hooper is not asking for that aforementioned AAV, then his agent isn’t doing his job.

The point of the comp question was simply to show that what we’re getting from him won’t be harmless once he’s no longer cheap talent.  He’s got a year left to turn into a legit force.  For me, he seems very JAG like...we’re 3 years in.

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4 hours ago, gazoo said:

Austin Hooper has been named a Pro Bowl Alternate in his 3rd season. Coaches and Ryan say Hooper can still get a LOT better. 

In 2016, Hooper was drafted Stanford in round 3

In 2017 Saubert was drafted out of Drake round 5.

Hooper: 6’3”, 254lbs, 4.72 40 yard dash, 33” vertical, 33.75” arms, 10.58” hands

Saubert: 6’5”, 253lbs, 4.65 40 yard dash, 35” vertical, 33.5” arms, 10.38” hands

 

Hooper increased production each year, including from last year to this year:

Last year: 18 1st downs, 49 catches, 75% catch %,3 TDs

This year: 30 1st downs, 71 catches,  80% catch %, 526 receiving yards,  4 TDS 

Point is, it takes these TEs a really long time to understand all their reposnsibilities and fundamentals in run and passing game, especially if they come from a small school like Drake.

i think 2019 is when we see the tandem  of Hooper and Saubert become a force. Don’t g

forget Saubert was #2 in the nation in receiving yards and TDs for all TEs his last year in college. Hooper will still be our #1 TE , but we will start seeing the Uber talented and athletic Saubert on the field with him a lot more next year. I saw the light start turning on for Saubert late this season. He was laying some grea blocks to spring our running backs and looked really fluid in the passing game. Him and Hooper are very similar physically, but Saubert is more fluid that Hooper. 

But you promised us Saubert would break out this year.

5 receptions and 48 yards. Another whiff. Good grief bro.

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, TheDirtyWordII said:

I think Hooper has been ‘OK’...but I actually think 2019 becomes make/break for him with regard to whether the Falcons sign him long term. For me, jury is still out.

Saubert is treading water...but after a lot of buzz thru September, he really didn’t do much.

Ultimately, if DQ was pleased with TE progress, wouldn’t he have kept the coach.

 

I like how DQ is never satisfied. He has an insatiable thirst to make the necessary changes and tweaks to bring the vision of the type of team he has to mind to life despite the stats and accolades.

Edited by ShadyRef
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Saubert is coming along. He is a project and a 5th round pick. Guys around here are spoiled because TD and Quinn have nailed so many late round picks it feels like Saubert is behind(Grady, Kazee, Foye). He isnt. He is a Small school guy who was basically asked at Drake to be a downfield threat. Falcons will have him do so much more. He has to continue to learn. He needs more PT and I feel indubitably he will be much more productive and a bigger threat than our last couple of 1 dimensional blocking TEs in the future. 

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@Stryka I agree soundly with your post. First 3, 4 rounds reasonable to expect unit contributions on D or O for skill guys by year 2. Something. Saubert is that guy that could develop later; which considering he was a LATE 5th round pick.

People just look at results without context; which is all too easy as a fan. We want results. Granted, Saubert should start showing more by this next year to warrant plans further. At this point, can he push to see the field and be a weapon? Because we still need another TE with some receiving capabilities as it is (Paulsen).

So, roster overturn may or may not allow for his continued 53 man spot. STs contributions can go for a couple years but projects gotta stick at some point. He did show some flashes during the preseason. Maybe its an OC comfort level, too. Never know. I think we tried him early this year and he had a critical drop? Didn't see him much for a while after that drop.

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1 minute ago, Ergo Proxy said:

@Stryka I agree soundly with your post. First 3, 4 rounds reasonable to expect unit contributions on D or O for skill guys by year 2. Something. Saubert is that guy that could develop later and is a late round 5 pick.

People just look at results without context; which is all too easy as a fan. We want results. Granted, Saubert should start showing more by this next year to warrant plans further. At this point, can he push to see the field and be a weapon? Because we still need another TE with some receiving capabilities as it is (Paulsen).

So, roster overturn may or may not allow for his continued 53 man spot. STs contributions can go for a couple years but projects gotta stick at some point. He did show some flashes during the preseason. Maybe its an OC comfort level, too. Never know. I think we tried him early this year and he had a critical drop? Didn't see him much for a while after that drop.

Yea he needs to show and prove. He had a couple drops this year on 3rd down but I also recall a couple flashes where he showed his speed and ability to get downfield. He will turn the corner with more PT imo. 

Fans expectations are regularly unrealistic or based upon another similar guy. Learning curves are different for everyone. Ansah the Detroit DE was labeled a bust after 2 years. In his 3rd year he exploded for 12 sacks. Saubert has that potential to transform our offense. Imagine 12 and 13 personnel being a go to formation for not just misdirection plays. Saubert at TE means a safety or corner has to guard him because he can outrun most backers. Cant wait to see him get comfy in this offense. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Stryka said:

Yea he needs to show and prove. He had a couple drops this year on 3rd down but I also recall a couple flashes where he showed his speed and ability to get downfield. He will turn the corner with more PT imo. 

Fans expectations are regularly unrealistic or based upon another similar guy. Learning curves are different for everyone. Ansah the Detroit DE was labeled a bust after 2 years. In his 3rd year he exploded for 12 sacks. Saubert has that potential to transform our offense. Imagine 12 and 13 personnel being a go to formation for not just misdirection plays. Saubert at TE means a safety or corner has to guard him because he can outrun most backers. Cant wait to see him get comfy in this offense. 

 

 

If it happens great, just keep the roster turnover going. I think your post highlights a reasonable chance he still has. Let's see what a new OC does with a fresh look and maybe a new TE coach will help determine the next stage in his development. In the end, it either gets results or doesn't.

Never a bad thing to have ability to play different formations and styles at a high level as an offense. Essential in playoff games or vs difficult teams that match up well to you.

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9 hours ago, gazoo said:

Saubert had 178 snaps on offense and 292 more snaps on STs this year. The 178 snaps on offense were good for just under 17% of our total offensive snaps.

Did you not watch any of the games? 

Saubert also was turning heads in training camp, drawing praise from DQ, Dave Archer and many fans here who were posting from practice.

Point being, he is an emerging player and I’ve been watching him very closely on those 178 offensive snaps. 

Also don’t forget he lined up at H-Back and FB as well as played well on STs. Good value for a fifth

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one thing that amazes me about Atlanta players, apparently they can never improve. guys show improvement and the next thing you read is how they need to be shown the door even though they're still in their development years, or since they didn't do what player X for the blahs blahs did, then they're no good.

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