Cole World

Deadrin Senat rookie season in comparison to Grady Jarrett rookie year

131 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

We gave up 100+ rush yards eleven times. We went 3-8 in those games with the three wins coming against depleted division opponents we know how to beat. We got flat out run over. Better fix that run defense. Quinn said that's one of the three things that must be fixed. Hope yall boys are right about Senat. I need rest so I hope the young man can rise. My bust nic for him is Snot. Hope I don't have to use it.

Poe was fine. But again, we got run over with Poe last year. Go look at that Miami game (138 yards), the Bills game (117 yards), and the first Panthers game (201 yards). Just adding one good DT who can stop the run doesn't matter if your ends are getting mauled consistently. Senat is a good young piece and I think we'll definitely add another, but if we're relying on Vic/Irvin to be assbeating edge setters, then it doesn't matter who the DTs are my friend. 

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14 minutes ago, atljbo said:

Yea I agree... Poe is a complimentary peace ... If everything is going right and that piece is doing its job.... Everything is good..  

 

With Neal, Debo, and Rico out ... 2 big time difference makers... Poe on the 2018 team would be about the same ... This year we would have to make changes for the 2019 season with 9.5 mil on the books for this year

Poe may have been pricey but we could have found a way to fit him in. He was 27 years old. If not, Hankins or Logan would have been better than McClain. Like someone said earlier, even Rubin would've been. Whoever screwed that up needs their as handed to em at the state line. :angry:

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Posted (edited)

11 minutes ago, vel said:

Poe was fine. But again, we got run over with Poe last year. Go look at that Miami game (138 yards), the Bills game (117 yards), and the first Panthers game (201 yards). Just adding one good DT who can stop the run doesn't matter if your ends are getting mauled consistently. Senat is a good young piece and I think we'll definitely add another, but if we're relying on Vic/Irvin to be assbeating edge setters, then it doesn't matter who the DTs are my friend. 

Yep. They can attack a weakness. We need disciplined play as an undersized unit as well. Use your speed but don't position yourself to be blocked out of a play unless it frees up your teammate to cover. We suffered without our best tacklers like Debo and Neal; another reason we stayed on field last year was they'd limit the damage even if we weren't getting turnovers. We wouldn't allow points quickly and teams still moved down field. Poe didn't prevent those things in our system so it was overvalued. Not worth the price tag.

This D plays better with a lead when playing at it's highest level. Quinn had better DL depth in Seattle no question. I'm thinking we can upgrade Vondre at minimum and Foye still needs to prove more than simply beating out Duke; albeit he showed well enough.

This is also pretty much why Reed has stayed around. Shelby was also used as a run defender at DE. Another injury and another roster opening...

Edited by Ergo Proxy

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3 hours ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Seems like a lot of TATFers are putting major trust in Senat. If I'm DQ I'm not. I'm trying to fix 1T with a solid vet free agent. There should be some out there. I saw Senat get tossed too many times this year. Hope yall are right.

Senat looks to me to be a rotational piece, but not a starter. 

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2 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Poe may have been pricey but we could have found a way to fit him in. He was 27 years old. If not, Hankins or Logan would have been better than McClain. Like someone said earlier, even Rubin would've been. Whoever screwed that up needs their as handed to em at the state line. :angry:

lol bro Rubin was on IR for the Raiders all season; got hurt in the pre.

Issue was far deeper than NT, but McClain was garbage for sure. The rest of the injuries hurt our run D as much or more.

Fast defenses rely primarily on tackling and gap integrity/run fits.

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3 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Poe may have been pricey but we could have found a way to fit him in. He was 27 years old. If not, Hankins or Logan would have been better than McClain. Like someone said earlier, even Rubin would've been. Whoever screwed that up needs their as handed to em at the state line. :angry:

I said it at the time we signed him, McClaIn was gonna be a big mistake. 

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19 minutes ago, vel said:

Poe was fine. But again, we got run over with Poe last year. Go look at that Miami game (138 yards), the Bills game (117 yards), and the first Panthers game (201 yards). Just adding one good DT who can stop the run doesn't matter if your ends are getting mauled consistently. Senat is a good young piece and I think we'll definitely add another, but if we're relying on Vic/Irvin to be assbeating edge setters, then it doesn't matter who the DTs are my friend. 

We didn't really get run over with Poe on the squad last year. We were 9th in run defense, had two fewer 100+ yard games than this year and closed out on a tear in our last eight games, allowing 90 rypg. Letting PoGo hurt the Atlanta Football Falcons in 2018.

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Just now, FalconFanSince1970 said:

We didn't really get run over with Poe on the squad last year. We were 9th in run defense, had two fewer 100+ yard games than this year and closed out on a tear in our last eight games, allowing 90 rypg. Letting PoGo hurt the Atlanta Football Falcons in 2018.

My point is just adding Poe wouldn't have prevented the Falcons from getting ran over. I don't think we had a single game allowing 200+ rushing yards this year, but we did with Poe. That's my point. Just like you said about the "tankers" being foolish thinking one player would change the defense, this is what you're doing with Poe. 

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15 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

lol bro Rubin was on IR for the Raiders all season; got hurt in the pre.

Issue was far deeper than NT, but McClain was garbage for sure. The rest of the injuries hurt our run D as much or more.

Fast defenses rely primarily on tackling and gap integrity/run fits.

Bro you aint watchin tape. You just typin on the internet. Go back and watch that 2018 DLine play against the run then re-post. Flat out run over, through, around and past. 

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24 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Poe may have been pricey but we could have found a way to fit him in. He was 27 years old. If not, Hankins or Logan would have been better than McClain. Like someone said earlier, even Rubin would've been. Whoever screwed that up needs their as handed to em at the state line. :angry:

Nawww bruh... you trynna hang on to it but you know the truth... Trust Me

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5 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Bro you aint watchin tape. You just typin on the internet. Go back and watch that 2018 DLine play against the run then re-post. Flat out run over, through, around and past. 

I called out McClain too. Our team D suffered. Only Jarret was consistent inside; and we have role players at DE not named Takk.

Did I miss anything?

Poe here last year was far better than McClain but isn't why the D was bad. Lot of reasons for that is my point. I didn't defend our D just said how it's supposed to work. Missing Debo, Neal and Allen caused us to let short runs get sprung or TFL turn into positive yards.

Kazee was inconsistent and we didn't have a pressence at LB for a long stretch.

Unit problem. Beyond Poe. McClain should've had no snaps if possible but Deadrin got hurt.

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20 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Senat looks to me to be a rotational piece, but not a starter. 

Quinn said we are in Nickel about 70% of the time. That’s good for the role we have Senat playing. I could be wrong but I don’t see Quinn and Dimitroff splurging in FA for another NT in free agency to split those reps with Senat.

Now for a player like McCoy or Simmons they can play in both base and nickel so the money can be justified. 

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16 minutes ago, Vandy said:

I said it at the time we signed him, McClaIn was gonna be a big mistake. 

Bro. You me and a few others said letting Poe walk was a mistake and got crucified. Still gettin crucified. A big 6'3" 346 pound fire hydrant with athletic skills. He was only 27 years old man. I woulda locked him up for three. We coulda found the cap space. We wasted $7.4M on McClain, Garland and Fusco. Poe's cap hit this year was $5.3M with the Panties. Jeez man. Now we're still searching for a NT and will either have to pay a similar free agent or reach for a draft pick and suffer through his orientation.

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3 minutes ago, Cole World said:

Quinn said we are in Nickel about 70% of the time. That’s good for the role we have Senat playing. I could be wrong but I don’t see Quinn and Dimitroff splurging in FA for another NT in free agency to split those reps with Senat.

Now for a player like McCoy or Simmons they can play in both base and nickel so the money can be justified. 

Exactly this. McCoy is ideal if he comes for $10 or less on a short deal. Bucs definitely going to cut him.

Vic Beasley is probably dropped; Irvin and McCoy gained at that point. $13M can be spent better than the production VB is getting.

Takk/Irvin/maybe a drafted DE. DT done via McCoy; while Crawford is good rotation for subpackages at DT and Senat develops for year 2 but primarily is for run D packages.

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Posted (edited)

10 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Bro. You me and a few others said letting Poe walk was a mistake and got crucified. Still gettin crucified. A big 6'3" 346 pound fire hydrant with athletic skills. He was only 27 years old man. I woulda locked him up for three. We coulda found the cap space. We wasted $7.4M on McClain, Garland and Fusco. Poe's cap hit this year was $5.3M with the Panties. Jeez man. Now we're still searching for a NT and will either have to pay a similar free agent or reach for a draft pick and suffer through his orientation.

Poe wasn't worth it and still isn't. Grady's contract about to prove that. Garland and McClain are FAs, but were clearly part of the 2018 season but flexed for the 2019 plans for the roster.

(1 year rentals on 30 YO vets meant we had cap space for big signings THIS offseason; while last year we had cap for Poe at a point but it would've hamstrung our ability to be flexible on the cap now) 

Fusco was a better move at the time than McClain and the dude is still veteran depth for far less than Poe.

Basically, not signing Poe is what may let us get a better DT/OG signing this FA.

You are hyper focusing. Forest for the trees. Get the big picture.

Edited by Ergo Proxy

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1 hour ago, vel said:

Personally I don't see Poe changing the 2018 season. Stopping the run a little more, but that doesn't change losing the Bengals game, the Eagles game, etc. 

Exactly our depth got exposed. Poe did okay for us but Grady was the up and coming star. I'd rather pay McCoy $9M on the cap next year and let Vic walk than be stuck with Poe and have Vic not producing still or leave and still be committed to a 2-gapper and get beat anyway vs the run because the UNIT is the issue and our subpackages wouldn't have quick enough pressure out of Poe at all.

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5 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Exactly this. McCoy is ideal if he comes for $10 or less on a short deal. Bucs definitely going to cut him.

Vic Beasley is probably dropped; Irvin and McCoy gained at that point. $13M can be spent better than the production VB is getting.

Takk/Irvin/maybe a drafted DE. DT done via McCoy; while Crawford is good rotation for subpackages at DT and Senat develops for year 2 but primarily is for run D packages.

I would like to keep Beasley on a 2yr incentive base contract, but if we get McCoy I don’t think that would happen.

Besides I don’t believe Beasley agent will allow Beasley to settle. Some team with money will pay him.

Irvin on the other hand already got paid his large contract and might settle for 6/7.

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9 minutes ago, Cole World said:

Quinn said we are in Nickel about 70% of the time. That’s good for the role we have Senat playing. I could be wrong but I don’t see Quinn and Dimitroff splurging in FA for another NT in free agency to split those reps with Senat.

Now for a player like McCoy or Simmons they can play in both base and nickel so the money can be justified. 

I’m in the draft Jeffery Simmons camp.

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2 minutes ago, Vandy said:

I’m in the draft Jeffery Simmons camp.

If we focus on OL in FA and don't make a move on DE other than the in house stuff? I'm game with best fit D in round 1; might just be Simmons at 14.

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16 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Poe wasn't worth it and still isn't. Grady's contract about to prove that. Garland and McClain are FAs, but were clearly part of the 2019 plan for the roster. Fusco was a better move at the time than McClain and the dude is still veteran depth for far less than Poe even if kept around.

Also, not signing Poe is what may let us get a better DT/OG signing this FA.

You are hyper focusing. Forest for the trees. Get the big picture.

I hear what you’re saying Ergo, but FF70 is right, Poe was greatly missed this year. That big *** Dude plugged a lot of holes for us in 2017.

Teams ran right up the gut on us this year too easily....

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, Vandy said:

I hear what you’re saying, but Poe was greatly missed this year. 

It wouldn't have mattered with these tacklers. That's what I'm saying and it's about the $9M cap hit he has this coming year.

It would've "worked for 2018" but now where would we be? Stuck with a guy that doesn't do enough vs the pass and isn't well fit for a 1 gap system to make enough of his own tackles.

Works for 2017 D but again we saw he wasn't a dominant game changer. Good piece but not essential. That's why his POST 2018 season investment (which is now hitting the Panthers and not us) was the deciding factor.

I feel like Senat is just fine at 1T moving forward. We don't need him eating all the snaps Poe did BECAUSE we can vastly upgrade Poe's production in those situations. Wasn't good enough for run D either because the issue is bigger than the 1T performance.

It just so happens McClain made it all that more painful and we saw Deadrin miss some snaps/time from the shoulder(?) that limited him this year.

Basically, we were capped in what Poe would provide. Senat will fill the base D role likely next year at 1T and then sub packages matter more. Crawford was serviceable but imagine a guy like Simmons being part of the rotation? Crawford becomes expendable easily in 2020 instead. And so forth..roster turnover.

Meanwhile; just like Poe as a 1 year rental in 2017 to bring a gap for us in terms of seasons, McCoy for 1 year would make sense in our system.

Edited by Ergo Proxy

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25 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Poe wasn't worth it and still isn't. Grady's contract about to prove that. Garland and McClain are FAs, but were clearly part of the 2018 season but flexed for the 2019 plans for the roster.

(1 year rentals on 30 YO vets meant we had cap space for big signings THIS offseason; while last year we had cap for Poe at a point but it would've hamstrung our ability to be flexible on the cap now) 

Fusco was a better move at the time than McClain and the dude is still veteran depth for far less than Poe.

Basically, not signing Poe is what may let us get a better DT/OG signing this FA.

You are hyper focusing. Forest for the trees. Get the big picture.

Bro you trying to give $10M to McCoy who is a 30 year old 300 pound 3T with declining sacks that got run over, when we need a NT. We had a 27 year old 346 pound run anchor on our roster and let him walk. I'm startin to warm up a seat for you on the State Line Express.

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1 minute ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Bro you trying to give $10M to McCoy who is a 30 year old 300 pound 3T with declining sacks that got run over, when we had a 27 year old 346 pound run anchor on our roster. I'm startin to warm up a seat for you on the State Line Express.

I don't know what McCoy's number would be but you clearly only read enough to rebuttal and not getting the big picture.

You don't even get what our 1T needs to do. We aren't a 2 gap system. McCoy can still get after the QB. Far better to spend $9M on the cap like Poe will get this next year than Poe 'not doing enough' for our run D in 2017 (we still weren't elite because our system relies on team speed tackling and not just a freed player for a 2 gap forcing double teams. Poe would've needed more consistent 1 on 1 tackles vs the run and even then it's overpriced for our scheme which values a DTs ability to rush the passer)

Again, you miss the point. Who is a better scheme fit for us for Poe's 2019 cap hit? McCoy next to Grady or Poe?

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2 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

It wouldn't have mattered with these tacklers. That's what I'm saying and it's about the $9M cap hit he has this coming year.

It would've "worked for 2018" but now where would we be? Stuck with a guy that doesn't do enough vs the pass and isn't well fit for a 1 gap system to make enough of his own tackles.

Works for 2017 D but again we saw he wasn't a dominant game changer. Good piece but not essential. That's why his POST 2018 season investment (which is now hitting the Panthers and not us) was the deciding factor.

I feel like Senat is just fine at 1T moving forward. We don't need him eating all the snaps Poe did BECAUSE we can vastly upgrade Poe's production in those situations. Wasn't good enough for run D either because the issue is bigger than the 1T performance.

It just so happens McClain made it all that more painful and we saw Deadrin miss some snaps/time from the shoulder(?) that limited him this year.

Like I said, I hear what you’re saying on the salary....

But it would have mattered....New Orleans beat us in OT at home running the ball down our throat, as did Dallas....we win those two games plus cincy we finish 10-6.

it mattered a lot.

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