Cole World

Deadrin Senat rookie season in comparison to Grady Jarrett rookie year

131 posts in this topic

12 minutes ago, Francis York Morgan said:

Thoughts on signing a guy like Danny Shelton in FA and drafting another DT in the 1st or 2nd? If Simmons is there, hard to see him not being BPA.

Shelton is in my free agent watch list with a few others. I'd try to fix NT in free agency if I were Dimi and Quinn. Not sure I'd bet my job on Senat. Just look at this year's playoff field. Lot's of teams that can flat run you over. Including the Aints. The last time they ran the ball they won a Bowl. Don't play around with the run defense. Quinn said it's one of the top three things we have to fix. I agree.

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1 hour ago, Jesus said:

He gives them a long leash, which is cool, if they are Shanahan. Manuel wasn't ready yet.

He gave everyone the same leash except Richard Smith. Kyle got two years. Sark and Manuel got two years. 

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1 hour ago, vel said:

Exactly why I wanted Manuel gone. Clueless. Yes, DQ gives the "green light" but he let's his coordinators do things their way for a reason. 

Sounds like you are being a "couch GM" right now.  Be careful...:D

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2 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Shelton is in my free agent watch list with a few others. I'd try to fix NT in free agency if I were Dimi and Quinn. Not sure I'd bet my job on Senat. Just look at this year's playoff field. Lot's of teams that can flat run you over. Including the Aints. The last time they ran the ball they won a Bowl. Don't play around with the run defense. Quinn said it's one of the top three things we have to fix. I agree.

I think we have more issues at DE than DT. Right now, you have Grady, Senat, and Crawford locked in. Adding one NT isn't changing the complexion of the DT group. But at DE, you have Reed, Vic, Takk, and....? That's a rough group, since Vic is too soft and Reed isn't really fit for that. I think going forward, Takk is the only lock at DE. Irvin if you count him as one. Look at the Rams DL. They have Donald and Suh, but their ends are terrible and it makes that defense struggle even with Donald destroying worlds. 

Add Shelton, but another guy they should look at is Margus Hunt. He played a good bit of DT/NT for Indy and dominated. Gives you a powerful end who won't get steamrolled.

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46 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Seems like a lot of TATFers are putting major trust in Senat. If I'm DQ I'm not. I'm trying to fix 1T with a solid vet free agent. There should be some out there. I saw Senat get tossed too many times this year. Hope yall are right.

Agreed...

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4 minutes ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

Sounds like you are being a "couch GM" right now.  Be careful...:D

Difference is I don't just spout a bunch of crap and hope it sticks. And when I'm wrong I'm first to admit I was wrong instead of act like I bat 100% like most here

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57 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Seems like a lot of TATFers are putting major trust in Senat. If I'm DQ I'm not. I'm trying to fix 1T with a solid vet free agent. There should be some out there. I saw Senat get tossed too many times this year. Hope yall are right.

I don't think anyone is trusting him, he is just a nice rotational player at this point. DT is still a huge area of need.

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1 hour ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Seems like a lot of TATFers are putting major trust in Senat. If I'm DQ I'm not. I'm trying to fix 1T with a solid vet free agent. There should be some out there. I saw Senat get tossed too many times this year. Hope yall are right.

yea a rookie got beat... He also showed some stoutness...

But i agree with you... Im very very very happy we didnt spend that 9 mil on Poe... You cant spend that type of money on a run stopping guy... ive  talk to some panthers fans  who brought it up and ive seen a couple of mistake FA signings with Poe mention....

Back to my point... I like Poe but i feel like run stopper only should not receive more then 4 mil

There are low price run stoppers out there like Kyle Love and Jonathan Hankins just to name a few.

 

I actually think we need to sign vets on the D-Line then rookies... I feel like we have young talent Takk, Grady, Vic, and senat.. Adding a productive stout vet would be what we need

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3 hours ago, Cole World said:

Jesus you bring up a good point. It actually started two weeks before in the Cleveland game and then Dallas did it some the following week. After back to back weeks of teams exploiting our packages Quinn decided it wise to inactive one of our best run defenders (Senat) because he claimed he needed more pass rushers. All the Saints did was take advantage of the bum McClain and Crawford who is a average pass rushers, but a liability against the run.

That's why we need more 3 down players on the line. Yes, we can get away with it if was just 1 player i.e. the NT, but when you basically have to remove 3/4 of your players (Shelby, Reed, and NT) to get into a different package it's a problem.

I might be wrong, but think I remember one of the commentators during one of the games mentioning it as well. Something along the lines of “the Falcons keep getting caught with the wrong package on the field.”

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18 minutes ago, Bquinn_11 said:

I might be wrong, but think I remember one of the commentators during one of the games mentioning it as well. Something along the lines of “the Falcons keep getting caught with the wrong package on the field.”

They very well could have but I know Bruce Irvin mentioned it for sure.

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32 minutes ago, atljbo said:

yea a rookie got beat... He also showed some stoutness...

But i agree with you... Im very very very happy we didnt spend that 9 mil on Poe... You cant spend that type of money on a run stopping guy... ive  talk to some panthers fans  who brought it up and ive seen a couple of mistake FA signings with Poe mention....

Back to my point... I like Poe but i feel like run stopper only should not receive more then 4 mil

There are low price run stoppers out there like Kyle Love and Jonathan Hankins just to name a few.

 

I actually think we need to sign vets on the D-Line then rookies... I feel like we have young talent Takk, Grady, Vic, and senat.. Adding a productive stout vet would be what we need

People keep bringing up what Poe did in CAR. I'm not interested in that. Just what he did in our system. He was stout. We should have put another one year rental on him. McClain, Senat and Grady got handled at NT. Poe didn't. Quinn has put a heavy value on stopping the run. You need a decent nose to do that. Dimi tried to throw $2M at NT. Big mistake. Yeah bro that's a spot we need to fix in free agency. Not hope one of the two rookie NTs plug and play in 2019. That would be another mistake in my opinion. 

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3 hours ago, Atlantafan21 said:

I like Senat a lot and he definitely should’ve gotten more snaps, but DT is still a big need for us and we need to get one of the DTs in this loaded DL class. 

Tell you what if it’s loaded means the class is deep.

Still gotta remember we got to take a chance earlyon the other side of the LOS also.

I think there will be a lolly scramble for the top DTs.

To me right now I’ve swapped my thoughts on our early draft strategy.If some how for example we could grab 1 of those 3 top rated OTs in Ford Taylor or J.Williams and then come back and grab a top flight G in the 2nd in a Lindstrom Samia for example I think I come away happy.

Then go back to the well at DT in the 3rd or 4th round and get the space eater to platoon with Senat,it pretty much frees up Jarrett to be your full time 3 T which is probably where you want him to be.

The advantage of thee above is where ever Jarrett lines up the pass rushing ends have a better chance at getting home.

Senats development is key for me if he can add some more penetration and pass rush in his second year with more snaps I personally think we could have a very dangerous defense next year.

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2 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

People keep bringing up what Poe did in CAR. I'm not interested in that. Just what he did in our system. He was stout. We should have put another one year rental on him. McClain, Senat and Grady got handled at NT. Poe didn't. Quinn has put a heavy value on stopping the run. You need a decent nose to do that. Dimi tried to throw $2M at NT. Big mistake. Yeah bro that's a spot we need to fix in free agency. Not hope one of the two rookie NTs plug and play in 2019. That would be another mistake in my opinion. 

Dude what he did in our system wasn't worth 3 year 28 mil ... And I like Poe

 

If we signed a Gerald Mccoy for 3 year 28 mil ..  ok .. He plays the run anddddd give you a pass rush.

But yea.. Grady bout to get 15+ mil... That's 9 mil we have this upcoming year tgat we can use in a more impact full way.

 

Now if we did not have a salary cap... **** I agree .. keep him in our system but in this salary cap world it doesn't make sense for us

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2 minutes ago, atljbo said:

Dude what he did in our system wasn't worth 3 year 28 mil ... And I like Poe

 

If we signed a Gerald Mccoy for 3 year 28 mil ..  ok .. He plays the run anddddd give you a pass rush.

But yea.. Grady bout to get 15+ mil... That's 9 mil we have this upcoming year tgat we can use in a more impact full way.

 

Now if we did not have a salary cap... **** I agree .. keep him in our system but in this salary cap world it doesn't make sense for us

Fair enough, but replace him with McClain and a rookie? Big mistake. Cost jobs. 

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14 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

People keep bringing up what Poe did in CAR. I'm not interested in that. Just what he did in our system. He was stout. We should have put another one year rental on him. McClain, Senat and Grady got handled at NT. Poe didn't. Quinn has put a heavy value on stopping the run. You need a decent nose to do that. Dimi tried to throw $2M at NT. Big mistake. Yeah bro that's a spot we need to fix in free agency. Not hope one of the two rookie NTs plug and play in 2019. That would be another mistake in my opinion. 

With what money? Poe signed 3yrs $28MM. That's over $9MM per year. A one year rental would have been another $8MM at least....

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1 hour ago, vel said:

I think we have more issues at DE than DT. Right now, you have Grady, Senat, and Crawford locked in. Adding one NT isn't changing the complexion of the DT group. But at DE, you have Reed, Vic, Takk, and....? That's a rough group, since Vic is too soft and Reed isn't really fit for that. I think going forward, Takk is the only lock at DE. Irvin if you count him as one. Look at the Rams DL. They have Donald and Suh, but their ends are terrible and it makes that defense struggle even with Donald destroying worlds. 

Add Shelton, but another guy they should look at is Margus Hunt. He played a good bit of DT/NT for Indy and dominated. Gives you a powerful end who won't get steamrolled.

Vel it’s that LDE position that’s the one for about 30-40% of snaps is what’s that key addition in my eyes.Thats where teams like to run.Hunt would be awesome and not cost a lot either.Even Shelby could do this job for us again if needs be.

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9 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Fair enough, but replace him with McClain and a rookie? Big mistake. Cost jobs. 

That McClain move def didn't work.. I agree.

 

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14 minutes ago, vel said:

With what money? Poe signed 3yrs $28MM. That's over $9MM per year. A one year rental would have been another $8MM at least....

As TATF always says, you can manipulate the cap. Dimi's a cap mastermind remember? :rolleyes:

Fit cap or miss the playoffs and sit on a hot plate for a year. Better fix it in 2019 or State Line.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, atljbo said:

yea a rookie got beat... He also showed some stoutness...

But i agree with you... Im very very very happy we didnt spend that 9 mil on Poe... You cant spend that type of money on a run stopping guy... ive  talk to some panthers fans  who brought it up and ive seen a couple of mistake FA signings with Poe mention....

Back to my point... I like Poe but i feel like run stopper only should not receive more then 4 mil

There are low price run stoppers out there like Kyle Love and Jonathan Hankins just to name a few.

 

I actually think we need to sign vets on the D-Line then rookies... I feel like we have young talent Takk, Grady, Vic, and senat.. Adding a productive stout vet would be what we need

A better FA signing than McClain without the price tag of a Poe. OR we are drafting DT mid-rounds again.

I agree with @vel on DE being a bigger issue.

LB is arguably as important as the 1 DT need; which is again a rotation and discounting Senat's role.

McClain stole some valuable snaps from Deadrin this year and was more 'tossed aside' than Senat. PFF has Deadrin in the top 5 grades over BJ Hill for a reason and it's efficiency with less snaps. Granted, you don't have the sacks themselves but it's not like they played the same amount or in the same D; more specifically the same DL which saw Grady miss a few games and Vic/Takk go invisilble at times this year.

DE under-performed almost as much as McClain; which to me highlights to bigger positional need. Crawford is back for another year so a rotational DT or 5T DE/DT hybrid in the draft is possible. We gotta secure Irvin for a 2 year deal or something.

We don't even know if they will keep the nearly $13M option on Vic or not. It could very well be a situation of letting him go, but it's very hard to make that call and more likely he is back AS LONG AS that $13M option doesn't prevent us from making the necessary FA moves coming up. It's more like keeping that cap hit for 2019 makes Alford and Schraeder guaranteed cuts or restructures (like half their cap hits or they are gone)

I too think Reed is gone. He was a ghost. Steven Means back for cheaper is a no brainer; not that he makes the 53 man if we take a DE in the draft or get a FA.

Deadrin is a definite piece but will need to improve like Grady had to. Don't think his ceiling is as high but it could be as high as he makes it; like improved ability to get off like Grady.

2-3 new DE on 53-man roster is possible next year; 1-2 changes at DT at most.

All with a potential LB infusion; DeBo and Vondre final years on their contract. Can't risk a lost season with Duke as the primary backup to Foye/Debo/Vondre.

So, veteran LB at minimum, IMO. Or we draft one in round 1 if he falls; assuming it's between CB/LB at 14 and we take OL round 2 and DL round 3, etc.

Ideally, Oliver is ready and Alford stays as vet depth or we get a veteran CB that can play outside. We are loaded at inside CB positions; Poole is probably back or signed to a longer deal. Kazee and Rico can play slot as well. If Alford is gone we don't have anyone behind Tru or Oliver that can play outside.

So...if the best CB in the draft fell to 14 (read no CBs taken by then) do we take a CB?

FA will either make that a good decision or a greedy one. Must settle the lines it's true, but each round of the draft; sans trades, is about value/efficiency based on the board compared to your roster needs 2nd. Roster turnover means those 2-3 depth issues we saw this year becoming non-issues so injuries don't mar your season.

Edited by Ergo Proxy
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14 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

As TATF always says, you can manipulate the cap. Dimi's a cap mastermind remember? :rolleyes:

Fit cap or miss the playoffs and sit on a hot plate for a year. Better fix it in 2019 or State Line.

Personally I don't see Poe changing the 2018 season. Stopping the run a little more, but that doesn't change losing the Bengals game, the Eagles game, etc. 

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12 minutes ago, vel said:

Personally I don't see Poe changing the 2018 season. Stopping the run a little more, but that doesn't change losing the Bengals game, the Eagles game, etc. 

We gave up 100+ rush yards eleven times. We went 3-8 in those games with the three wins coming against depleted division opponents we know how to beat. We got flat out run over. Better fix that run defense. Quinn said that's one of the three things that must be fixed. Hope yall boys are right about Senat. I need rest so I hope the young man can rise. My bust nic for him is Snot. Hope I don't have to use it.

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2 minutes ago, vel said:

Personally I don't see Poe changing the 2018 season. Stopping the run a little more, but that doesn't change losing the Bengals game, the Eagles game, etc. 

Yea I agree... Poe is a complimentary peace ... If everything is going right and that piece is doing its job.... Everything is good..  

 

With Neal, Debo, and Rico out ... 2 big time difference makers... Poe on the 2018 team would be about the same ... This year we would have to make changes for the 2019 season with 9.5 mil on the books for this year

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