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Shiney_McShine

It’s a bad idea for Dan Quinn, shaky game manager, to add to his Falcons duties

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https://www.ajc.com/blog/mike-check/bad-idea-for-dan-quinn-shaky-game-manager-add-coordinator-his-falcons-duties/9GbC4mDBQDHdlrERjbuv9I/

 

It was an addendum to the big announcement. Falcons coach Dan Quinn dismissed his three coordinators, and by the way, “Quinn will assume the responsibility of defensive coordinator.” 

That shouldn’t be an aside. It is just as significant as Quinn’s decision to can coordinators Steve Sarkisian, Marquand Manuel and Keith Armstrong. It’s also a bad idea. 

Quinn obviously can do the job. He proved himself as a top coordinator in Seattle, where his 2013 defense was an all-time great unit. The Falcons played better defense once Quinn took over the play-calling during their Super Bowl run. 

But Quinn as coordinator is bad for the Falcons because it adds to his responsibilities during games. Managing games is Quinn’s greatest weakness. He’s adding more to a plate that already seems too full for him. 

Most of his game-management miscues came when he wasn’t coordinating the defense. Can we really expect that to improve when he’s got more to think about? I suppose he can enlist an assistant to feed him information or make suggestions, but in the end, Quinn makes the decisions.

 

A consistent theme of Quinn’s is that he will, at some point, botch those decisions. There inevitably comes a time when the Falcons must overcome their head coach’s sub-optimal strategy. That’s happened at least once in each of his four seasons, too often for this level of football. 

Close Falcons observers probably can rattle off from memory the list of Quinn’s game-management goofs. 

In November, Quinn’s timeouts gave Dallas extra time to set up the winning field goal. They also gave the Cowboys four extra yards, which proved crucial when Brett Maher’s fading kick barely slipped inside the right upright. Dallas coach Jason Garrett also tried his best to botch the endgame, but Quinn was relentless.

In 2017, the Saints trailed by three points late when Quinn declined a penalty that would have resulted in a third-and-11 34 yards from the end zone. The Saints converted a fourth-and-short, no surprise because they were (and are) a great power running team. Quinn got away with that one because Drew Brees ended up throwing an interception in the end zone. 

There was that time in 2015 when the Falcons, down four with three minutes to play, kicked a field goal at San Francisco’s 1-yard line. Quinn didn’t get away with that one. The Falcons never got the ball back and lost by a point. 

Then there was the Houston Super Bowl. Considering the stakes and the circumstances, it goes down as the most egregious game mismanagement in NFL history. Quinn will own 28-3 forever. 

Those games reveal major flaws in Quinn’s decision-making process. He’s thinking about the best possible outcomes: getting the ball back after a big stop or scoring a touchdown when a field goal will do. He’s not managing the immediate situation: decreasing the chances the opponent will score or, you know, doing everything possible to ensure his team can kick a field goal to win the freakin’ Super Bowl. 

Every coach makes mistakes. But Quinn’s explanations for those choices suggest that he doesn’t recognize them as mistakes. He tends to focus on outcomes rather than percentages. After bungling situations that scream out for caution, Quinn sticks to his mantra of being aggressive. 

Why did Quinn call that timeout before Dallas converted the key third down? “We were going in with the mindset we're going to stop it and give our offense a chance,” Quinn said. That’s wishful thinking about the future taking precedence over playing the odds in the present. 

Quinn expressed regret about declining that penalty against the Saints but said: “Had they kicked it, it would have been the right call.” No, had they kicked it then Quinn would have benefited from a bad decision by Saints coach Sean Payton, who I’m sure couldn’t believe his luck when Quinn gifted him a good chance to win the game. 

Quinn eventually said he regretted not going for the touchdown in San Francisco. But his lament was that he sent the team the wrong message by not being aggressive (of course). Math was the real reason that was the wrong call: the Falcons would have had a better chance of winning even if they failed to convert the fourth down. 

Kyle Shanahan took the brunt of the blame for the Super Bowl collapse. But Quinn should have overruled his coordinator at any of the many points when it was obvious that the Falcons were being too aggressive with a big lead. Quinn didn’t do it because he tends to think that being aggressive always is the right approach. 

About the worst decision in that game, trying to pass when the Falcons were in position to kick the winning field goal, Quinn said: “I don’t disagree with the call. As it turns out, the outcome (a sack) is what gets you.” Once again, Quinn was talking about bad results when his bad decisions were the obvious issue. 

Quinn is an aggressive coach by nature. He likes for his players to “totally go for it” and he wants to do the same as a coach. That’s fine as a guiding philosophy, but it leads to bad decisions in specific situations. 

Quinn has said that game in San Francisco made him coach more aggressively going forward. But making sound decisions when circumstances call for is smart, not conservative. You cannot blow a huge lead in the Super Bowl with over-aggressive game management and sincerely believe that the “outcome” was the only issue. 

Game management is hard for NFL head coaches, who must process a lot of information in real time. They are thinking about what’s happened before, what’s happening now and how it impacts what they will do next.  It’s crucial to get it right because margins are so thin in the NFL, which engineers parity in player talent among its teams.

Quinn’s history shows that his circuits can get fried by so much responsibility. Now, on top of those duties, he’ll run the defense during games. This is a bad move for Quinn and the Falcons.

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Can we get Kirk Herbstreit to call ALL our home play by play games? I know he's a college play by play announcer with ESPN, but he's unbiased and he knows his football.

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We need to introduce a new role called "Game Management Coach" or something like that, that has full authority over things like timeouts, challenges - maybe even offensive pacing/hurry up and help feed our OC when to go to the 4 minute/2 minute sheet, etc.

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tl:dr

I assume it's saying Quinn can't chew gum and walk at the same time so how will he manage timeouts if he is trying to manage the defense.

Meh... he usually calls timeouts that help the other team, so maybe him at DC will make him completely forget about timeouts and we will be better off. Maybe he overthinks that stuff because he's got too much free time on his hands as HC with everyone else running the show and he does stupid things just because he wants to feel involved.

Dude needs to have an assistant head coach to handle those sort of duties anyway, but maybe limiting his time to really bounce scenarios around in his head will make it better. 

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17 minutes ago, Flying Falcon said:

Can we get Kirk Herbstreit to call ALL our home play by play games? I know he's a college play by play announcer with ESPN, but he's unbiased and he knows his football.

Holy cow that was random. I like it. But I couldn't have come up with that one...for us..herbie needs to call the timeouts when they need to be called. 

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I disagree... I think coach need to run the D.. That's what he do

 

Mst head coaches like McVey or Sean Payton hire a assistant coach to help them with the game management since they are running one side of the ball

Drew4719, papachaz and Lowndesfalc like this

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Gonna be a lazy reader and skip to the reply button. I disagree. I think Quinn lost his feeling for the game this year, as most coaches do as they leave the coordinator position to head coach. I think this will give Quinn a chance to get the feel of the game back, and not over think decisions. Plus we gain a really good DC.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

Or maybe getting him more involved in the game will give him a better sense of what is happening thus better decisions. 

this is exactly what I was thinking.

to quote an old manager I had once, 

'you get something done right by giving it to someone who's already busy. they'll find a way to get it done'

 

through all my years of management after that point, I never saw it fail

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13 minutes ago, VTCrunkler said:

Holy cow that was random. I like it. But I couldn't have come up with that one...for us..herbie needs to call the timeouts when they need to be called. 

I want him as our announcer. He's good and knowledgeable. He's a student of the game. Maybe he can be our Co-HC and manage our team? 

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14 minutes ago, TheUsualStuff said:

tl:dr

I assume it's saying Quinn can't chew gum and walk at the same time so how will he manage timeouts if he is trying to manage the defense.

Meh... he usually calls timeouts that help the other team, so maybe him at DC will make him completely forget about timeouts and we will be better off. Maybe he overthinks that stuff because he's got too much free time on his hands as HC with everyone else running the show and he does stupid things just because he wants to feel involved.

Dude needs to have an assistant head coach to handle those sort of duties anyway, but maybe limiting his time to really bounce scenarios around in his head will make it better. 

In a sorta' crazy way this might work....    it's not like it could be much worse then what he does as an only the Game Day HC at least.

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5 minutes ago, Flying Falcon said:

I want him as our announcer. He's good and knowledgeable. He's a student of the game. Maybe he can be our Co-HC and manage our team? 

I like him too. And he is a student of the game. I thought the same about Gruden. 

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im glad he is gonna be the dc as well as head coach cause when they get hammered and have a losing season his butt IS GONE!!!

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54 minutes ago, Shiney_McShine said:

https://www.ajc.com/blog/mike-check/bad-idea-for-dan-quinn-shaky-game-manager-add-coordinator-his-falcons-duties/9GbC4mDBQDHdlrERjbuv9I/

 

It was an addendum to the big announcement. Falcons coach Dan Quinn dismissed his three coordinators, and by the way, “Quinn will assume the responsibility of defensive coordinator.” 

That shouldn’t be an aside. It is just as significant as Quinn’s decision to can coordinators Steve Sarkisian, Marquand Manuel and Keith Armstrong. It’s also a bad idea. 

Quinn obviously can do the job. He proved himself as a top coordinator in Seattle, where his 2013 defense was an all-time great unit. The Falcons played better defense once Quinn took over the play-calling during their Super Bowl run. 

But Quinn as coordinator is bad for the Falcons because it adds to his responsibilities during games. Managing games is Quinn’s greatest weakness. He’s adding more to a plate that already seems too full for him. 

Most of his game-management miscues came when he wasn’t coordinating the defense. Can we really expect that to improve when he’s got more to think about? I suppose he can enlist an assistant to feed him information or make suggestions, but in the end, Quinn makes the decisions.

 

A consistent theme of Quinn’s is that he will, at some point, botch those decisions. There inevitably comes a time when the Falcons must overcome their head coach’s sub-optimal strategy. That’s happened at least once in each of his four seasons, too often for this level of football. 

Close Falcons observers probably can rattle off from memory the list of Quinn’s game-management goofs. 

In November, Quinn’s timeouts gave Dallas extra time to set up the winning field goal. They also gave the Cowboys four extra yards, which proved crucial when Brett Maher’s fading kick barely slipped inside the right upright. Dallas coach Jason Garrett also tried his best to botch the endgame, but Quinn was relentless.

In 2017, the Saints trailed by three points late when Quinn declined a penalty that would have resulted in a third-and-11 34 yards from the end zone. The Saints converted a fourth-and-short, no surprise because they were (and are) a great power running team. Quinn got away with that one because Drew Brees ended up throwing an interception in the end zone. 

There was that time in 2015 when the Falcons, down four with three minutes to play, kicked a field goal at San Francisco’s 1-yard line. Quinn didn’t get away with that one. The Falcons never got the ball back and lost by a point. 

Then there was the Houston Super Bowl. Considering the stakes and the circumstances, it goes down as the most egregious game mismanagement in NFL history. Quinn will own 28-3 forever. 

Those games reveal major flaws in Quinn’s decision-making process. He’s thinking about the best possible outcomes: getting the ball back after a big stop or scoring a touchdown when a field goal will do. He’s not managing the immediate situation: decreasing the chances the opponent will score or, you know, doing everything possible to ensure his team can kick a field goal to win the freakin’ Super Bowl. 

Every coach makes mistakes. But Quinn’s explanations for those choices suggest that he doesn’t recognize them as mistakes. He tends to focus on outcomes rather than percentages. After bungling situations that scream out for caution, Quinn sticks to his mantra of being aggressive. 

Why did Quinn call that timeout before Dallas converted the key third down? “We were going in with the mindset we're going to stop it and give our offense a chance,” Quinn said. That’s wishful thinking about the future taking precedence over playing the odds in the present. 

Quinn expressed regret about declining that penalty against the Saints but said: “Had they kicked it, it would have been the right call.” No, had they kicked it then Quinn would have benefited from a bad decision by Saints coach Sean Payton, who I’m sure couldn’t believe his luck when Quinn gifted him a good chance to win the game. 

Quinn eventually said he regretted not going for the touchdown in San Francisco. But his lament was that he sent the team the wrong message by not being aggressive (of course). Math was the real reason that was the wrong call: the Falcons would have had a better chance of winning even if they failed to convert the fourth down. 

Kyle Shanahan took the brunt of the blame for the Super Bowl collapse. But Quinn should have overruled his coordinator at any of the many points when it was obvious that the Falcons were being too aggressive with a big lead. Quinn didn’t do it because he tends to think that being aggressive always is the right approach. 

About the worst decision in that game, trying to pass when the Falcons were in position to kick the winning field goal, Quinn said: “I don’t disagree with the call. As it turns out, the outcome (a sack) is what gets you.” Once again, Quinn was talking about bad results when his bad decisions were the obvious issue. 

Quinn is an aggressive coach by nature. He likes for his players to “totally go for it” and he wants to do the same as a coach. That’s fine as a guiding philosophy, but it leads to bad decisions in specific situations. 

Quinn has said that game in San Francisco made him coach more aggressively going forward. But making sound decisions when circumstances call for is smart, not conservative. You cannot blow a huge lead in the Super Bowl with over-aggressive game management and sincerely believe that the “outcome” was the only issue. 

Game management is hard for NFL head coaches, who must process a lot of information in real time. They are thinking about what’s happened before, what’s happening now and how it impacts what they will do next.  It’s crucial to get it right because margins are so thin in the NFL, which engineers parity in player talent among its teams.

Quinn’s history shows that his circuits can get fried by so much responsibility. Now, on top of those duties, he’ll run the defense during games. This is a bad move for Quinn and the Falcons.

oh is the second hometown newspaper of the saints. it's not the ideal situation but I'm OK with it

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21 minutes ago, TheUsualStuff said:

Dude needs to have an assistant head coach to handle those sort of duties anyway, but maybe limiting his time to really bounce scenarios around in his head will make it better. 

He has an Assistant Head Coach: Raheem Morris

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58 minutes ago, Shiney_McShine said:

https://www.ajc.com/blog/mike-check/bad-idea-for-dan-quinn-shaky-game-manager-add-coordinator-his-falcons-duties/9GbC4mDBQDHdlrERjbuv9I/

 

It was an addendum to the big announcement. Falcons coach Dan Quinn dismissed his three coordinators, and by the way, “Quinn will assume the responsibility of defensive coordinator.” 

That shouldn’t be an aside. It is just as significant as Quinn’s decision to can coordinators Steve Sarkisian, Marquand Manuel and Keith Armstrong. It’s also a bad idea. 

Quinn obviously can do the job. He proved himself as a top coordinator in Seattle, where his 2013 defense was an all-time great unit. The Falcons played better defense once Quinn took over the play-calling during their Super Bowl run. 

But Quinn as coordinator is bad for the Falcons because it adds to his responsibilities during games. Managing games is Quinn’s greatest weakness. He’s adding more to a plate that already seems too full for him. 

.

The bolded says it’s a smart move.  Play to our strengths.  Quinn is gifted at calling a defense but struggled with in-game decisions.  Why would we want to remove his greatest asset just to work on a weakness.  Have Morris assume more game day responsibility as Assistant Head Coach.  But Quinn’s defensive prowess is an asset.  Use it

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Im already annoyed with this take by the media and this fam base... we all begged for him to call the defense from day 1.. we got 9 games with pretty solud results outside of the SB collapse.. everyone should be happy he’s stepping up to a make or break deal.. 

put up or shut up and ship out... thats whats on the line and hes gonna take ownership finally

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33 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1969 said:

Or maybe getting him more involved in the game will give him a better sense of what is happening thus better decisions. 

More involved in the game? What HAS he been doing? :lol:

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14 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

The bolded says it’s a smart move.  Play to our strengths.  Quinn is gifted at calling a defense but struggled with in-game decisions.  Why would we want to remove his greatest asset just to work on a weakness.  Have Morris assume more game day responsibility as Assistant Head Coach.  But Quinn’s defensive prowess is an asset.  Use it

Agree. The problem is Quinn himself usually doesn't recognize the decision(s) made were blunders because he was "totally going for it" instead of staying in the moment and using common sense. That might be a part of HC duties he feels is one of his strengths. He'd be much better served just handling the defense on game day and giving the strategic and time management decisions to Raheem.

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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

Agree. The problem is Quinn himself usually doesn't recognize the decision(s) made were blunders because he was "totally going for it" instead of staying in the moment and using common sense. That might be a part of HC duties he feels is one of his strengths. He'd be much better served just handling the defense on game day and giving the strategic and time management decisions to Raheem.

He just needs to continue maturing and try to remove passion from his decisions.  Honestly, he should have an answer for any in-game decision before the game is played.  That’s the objective at least.

Belichick in SB 49 didn’t call a TO at the end cause he prepared his players.  Trusted his preparation.   He worked through the situation before the game started and knew chaos worked in his favor.  Quinn needs to know the answers to the test before taking it

Edited by Falconsin2012
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1 minute ago, Falconsin2012 said:

He just needs to continue maturing and try to remove passion from his decisions.  Honestly, he should have an answer for any in-game decision before the game is played.  That’s the objective at least

I've said this before. Somebody needs to give/teach Quinn "the book" on football game management, like baseball managers have a book of tried-and-true tactics for all the many specific recurring situations in games.

Dumb moves that significantly contribute to losses are not acceptable. Especially now considering he's had several years to get the nuances figured out.

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32 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

Agree. The problem is Quinn himself usually doesn't recognize the decision(s) made were blunders because he was "totally going for it" instead of staying in the moment and using common sense. That might be a part of HC duties he feels is one of his strengths. He'd be much better served just handling the defense on game day and giving the strategic and time management decisions to Raheem.

Raheem was worse in Tampa. I will take DQ over him. 

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