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Carter

January 2019 UGA Recruiting - Sugar and Spice!

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Elam, Cross, Seither is what I’m hoping for. 

Really don’t know if that’s how we will finish but that’s what I hope. I wouldn’t let Pickens sign, but we probably will if he wants to. It sounds unlikely he will qualify, but they may want to sign him so he can be an initial counter in 2019 instead of whenever he gets eligible via JUCO or prep.

We will need to take probably 4 WR and 4 or 5 DL in 2020. If we can limit our DB need in 2020 to maybe 2 or 3 then I think it would help numbers-wise with fitting in the big influx we need at WR and DL.

We will have 6 seniors on the DL this year. Netori Johnson making the switch over to DL helps with the impact of losing 6. We already have 3 stud DL committed for 2020.

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9 hours ago, Carter said:

Elam, Cross, Seither is what I’m hoping for. 

 

I'd be more inclined to take elam, seither and either mar, or another wr that will qualify.  I feel like we are pretty good at safety, with the addition, in this class, of cine, and potentially stevenson ending up at safety.  For that matter, if campbell continues to struggle in coverage, he would make a badazz safety.  

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3 hours ago, Turkeydawg said:

I'd be more inclined to take elam, seither and either mar, or another wr that will qualify.  I feel like we are pretty good at safety, with the addition, in this class, of cine, and potentially stevenson ending up at safety.  For that matter, if campbell continues to struggle in coverage, he would make a badazz safety.  

Think we need both guys and I think Kirby feels the same imo. We may not get either of them. With Campbell and Stevenson listed as corners, our safety spots are basically only 2 deep. JR Reed is a senior, Lecounte is a junior, then we have Otis Reese and Chris Smith as sophomores.

With Cine coming in as the only freshman at safety, I just don’t love that depth situation (or class separation) with the potential of Lecounte to go pro if we have a big season and he improves. Before you scoff at his tackling, consider Reshad Jones as a sophomore and then as a junior... after whiffing on a bunch of tackles he followed it up with a great season and decided to declare early. Jones played out of his mind against Tech that year and has been a very good pro. I’d love to see that kind of turnaround for Lecounte and have him return as a senior, but just can’t count on that and we’re not going to get a safety in 2020 that’s as good as Nick Cross.

I do think Campbell is likely to end up at safety. He could improve a ton at corner but I really think he’s best suited for safety. That still puts pressure on class separation though as we’d have 3 in one class followed up with only Cine at this point and maybe 1-2 in 2020 that imo will not be close to how good Cine and Cross are. Lejond Cavazos has potential but he’s not on their level imo and he might be the best safety we sign for 2020.

Corner is less of a concern but class separation is really the driving factor I think and Elam is an elite prospect. We also need to compensate in 2020 for big departures from WR and DL in particular, so DB I think needs to be addressed with the best players we can get now. We will probably only take 2-3 DBs max in 2020.

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13 hours ago, Carter said:

Elam, Cross, Seither is what I’m hoping for. 

Really don’t know if that’s how we will finish but that’s what I hope. I wouldn’t let Pickens sign, but we probably will if he wants to. It sounds unlikely he will qualify, but they may want to sign him so he can be an initial counter in 2019 instead of whenever he gets eligible via JUCO or prep.

We will need to take probably 4 WR and 4 or 5 DL in 2020. If we can limit our DB need in 2020 to maybe 2 or 3 then I think it would help numbers-wise with fitting in the big influx we need at WR and DL.

We will have 6 seniors on the DL this year. Netori Johnson making the switch over to DL helps with the impact of losing 6. We already have 3 stud DL committed for 2020.

Why would we not just let Pickens sign Grant in Aid docs securing his spot... it would seem to be a mistake to pull a Nadab Joseph move 2 years in a row. We will be able to back count an EE into the spot regardless as long as he doesn't sign an NLI, so it doesn't make sense that we'd be worried about 1-2 years down the road.

Edited by fibonaccisquared
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5 minutes ago, fibonaccisquared said:

Why would we not just let Pickens sign Grant in Aid docs securing his spot... it would seem to be a mistake to pull a Nadab Joseph move 2 years in a row. We will be able to back count an EE into the spot regardless as long as he doesn't sign an NLI, so it doesn't make sense that we'd be worried about 1-2 years down the road.

Just thinking out loud so to speak. I have no idea. We’re pursuing Pickens hard, had sent him a NLI to sign on early signing day... and yet it’s still looking unlikely he will qualify. So I dunno man... I wouldn’t let him sign the NLI but it seems like we will if he wants to.

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8 minutes ago, Carter said:

Think we need both guys and I think Kirby feels the same imo. We may not get either of them. With Campbell and Stevenson listed as corners, our safety spots are basically only 2 deep. JR Reed is a senior, Lecounte is a junior, then we have Otis Reese and Chris Smith as sophomores.

With Cine coming in as the only freshman at safety, I just don’t love that depth situation (or class separation) with the potential of Lecounte to go pro if we have a big season and he improves. Before you scoff at his tackling, consider Reshad Jones as a sophomore and then as a junior... after whiffing on a bunch of tackles he followed it up with a great season and decided to declare early. Jones played out of his mind against Tech that year and has been a very good pro. I’d love to see that kind of turnaround for Lecounte and have him return as a senior, but just can’t count on that and we’re not going to get a safety in 2020 that’s as good as Nick Cross.

I do think Campbell is likely to end up at safety. He could improve a ton at corner but I really think he’s best suited for safety. That still puts pressure on class separation though as we’d have 3 in one class followed up with only Cine at this point and maybe 1-2 in 2020 that imo will not be close to how good Cine and Cross are. Lejond Cavazos has potential but he’s not on their level imo and he might be the best safety we sign for 2020.

Corner is less of a concern but class separation is really the driving factor I think and Elam is an elite prospect. We also need to compensate in 2020 for big departures from WR and DL in particular, so DB I think needs to be addressed with the best players we can get now. We will probably only take 2-3 DBs max in 2020.

You would have to think with the 2 deep we have at safety, that if Wilson takes the Star role, then Webb, or Mcghee will be moved to safety.  Webb has to see the field more and Wilson is someone that our staff obviously has total faith in.  Speed is someone else who could fill a role outside of cb.

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1 minute ago, Carter said:

Just thinking out loud so to speak. I have no idea. We’re pursuing Pickens hard, had sent him a NLI to sign on early signing day... and yet it’s still looking unlikely he will qualify. So I dunno man... I wouldn’t let him sign the NLI but it seems like we will if he wants to.

Rusty said we have 6-7 guys fighting for what appears to be 2 spots.  We will recruit several guys up until the last minute.  I would think if it's only 2, you go with elam and seither.

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Just now, Carter said:

Just thinking out loud so to speak. I have no idea. We’re pursuing Pickens hard, had sent him a NLI to sign on early signing day... and yet it’s still looking unlikely he will qualify. So I dunno man... I wouldn’t let him sign the NLI but it seems like we will if he wants to.

Bleh... I just can't fathom that Kirby and co know less than I do about the levers and switches and buttons they have to push and pull to control this stuff, but it seems like a surreal misstep in back to back seasons... Like the only value it gives you is in the class ranking if he signs an NLI... but Kirby has said over and over that we don't care about those... 

Otherwise, aid paperwork would seemingly be enough unless you're worried that if he late qualifies that someone else may still steal him away? But at that point, did you really recruit him well enough?

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2 hours ago, fibonaccisquared said:

Bleh... I just can't fathom that Kirby and co know less than I do about the levers and switches and buttons they have to push and pull to control this stuff, but it seems like a surreal misstep in back to back seasons... Like the only value it gives you is in the class ranking if he signs an NLI... but Kirby has said over and over that we don't care about those... 

Otherwise, aid paperwork would seemingly be enough unless you're worried that if he late qualifies that someone else may still steal him away? But at that point, did you really recruit him well enough?

I'm about 99.9999% sure that signing a GIA counts towards the 25-man limit, just like an NLI would.

 

Yeah, here you go. Straight from the NCAA Handbook:

 

13.9.2.3 Limitation on Number of National Letter of Intent/Offer of Financial Aid Signings—Bowl Subdivision Football. [FBS] In bowl subdivision football, there shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of prospective student-athletes who may sign a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid and student-athletes who may sign a financial aid agreement for the first time. [D] (Adopted: 1/16/10 effective 8/1/10, Revised: 1/14/12 effective 8/1/12, 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)

13.9.2.3.1 Application. [FBS] A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided in the fall term of an academic year shall count toward the annual limit on signings for that academic year. A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided during the second or third term of the academic year may count toward the limit for that academic year or the limit for the next academic year. (Adopted: 1/14/12 effective 8/1/12, Revised: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)

13.9.2.3.2 Exception—Agreement After One Year. [FBS] A student-athlete who has been in residence at the certifying institution for at least one academic year may sign a financial aid agreement for the first time without counting toward the annual limit on signings. (Adopted: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17, Revised: 4/25/18 effective 8/1/18)

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4 hours ago, Turkeydawg said:

Rusty said we have 6-7 guys fighting for what appears to be 2 spots.  We will recruit several guys up until the last minute.  I would think if it's only 2, you go with elam and seither.

rusty has also said he isn't clear how many spots we have left and he is basically guessing.  i believe we have 4 spots left and will take 3 and save the final spot for a graduate transfer.  that's just my opinion. 

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2 hours ago, ATLBrave said:

I'm about 99.9999% sure that signing a GIA counts towards the 25-man limit, just like an NLI would.

 

Yeah, here you go. Straight from the NCAA Handbook:

 

13.9.2.3 Limitation on Number of National Letter of Intent/Offer of Financial Aid Signings—Bowl Subdivision Football. [FBS] In bowl subdivision football, there shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of prospective student-athletes who may sign a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid and student-athletes who may sign a financial aid agreement for the first time. [D] (Adopted: 1/16/10 effective 8/1/10, Revised: 1/14/12 effective 8/1/12, 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)

13.9.2.3.1 Application. [FBS] A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided in the fall term of an academic year shall count toward the annual limit on signings for that academic year. A prospective student-athlete who signs a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid or a student-athlete who signs a financial aid agreement that specifies financial aid will be initially provided during the second or third term of the academic year may count toward the limit for that academic year or the limit for the next academic year. (Adopted: 1/14/12 effective 8/1/12, Revised: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17)

13.9.2.3.2 Exception—Agreement After One Year. [FBS] A student-athlete who has been in residence at the certifying institution for at least one academic year may sign a financial aid agreement for the first time without counting toward the annual limit on signings. (Adopted: 4/26/17 effective 8/1/17 for signings that occur on or after 8/1/17, Revised: 4/25/18 effective 8/1/18)

So how on earth does that work if the GIA paperwork can be signed at multiple universities?

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16 minutes ago, fibonaccisquared said:

So how on earth does that work if the GIA paperwork can be signed at multiple universities?

Great question. Some of what I’m about to say is general knowledge, so I apologize in advance, but the NLI is a whole separate entity from the NCAA. The NLI binds a kid to the school he signs with, whereas the a grant-in-aid (GIA) does the inverse. Typically they are signed in conjunction with each other.

An NLI is only binding for a year, as are most GIA’s, making it essentially a quid pro quo agreement. However, even though both are considered “binding” agreements, the NLI is the only one that has any real teeth are far as the kid is concerned. The GIA holds the school responsible for providing a scholarship if the kid enrolls and attends classes on their campus. As stated in those rules I posted above, both take away spot, technically, but they hold hostage, for lack of a better phrase, different parties. 

Since a GIA doesn’t restrict movement of the kid, if they’re smart, they’ll sign that instead of an NLI. The latter obviously protects a coach/school a lot more, so that’s why they push them so much and it’s such a common phrase. Hopefully I didn’t ever too off course there and answered your question adequately. Let me know if I didn’t!

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12 minutes ago, ATLBrave said:

Great question. Some of what I’m about to say is general knowledge, so I apologize in advance, but the NLI is a whole separate entity from the NCAA. The NLI binds a kid to the school he signs with, whereas the a grant-in-aid (GIA) does the inverse. Typically they are signed in conjunction with each other.

An NLI is only binding for a year, as are most GIA’s, making it essentially a quid pro quo agreement. However, even though both are considered “binding” agreements, the NLI is the only one that has any real teeth are far as the kid is concerned. The GIA holds the school responsible for providing a scholarship if the kid enrolls and attends classes on their campus. As stated in those rules I posted above, both take away spot, technically, but they hold hostage, for lack of a better phrase, different parties. 

Since a GIA doesn’t restrict movement of the kid, if they’re smart, they’ll sign that instead of an NLI. The latter obviously protects a coach/school a lot more, so that’s why they push them so much and it’s such a common phrase. Hopefully I didn’t ever too off course there and answered your question adequately. Let me know if I didn’t!

Yeah, I understand the legal difference between the two... what I can't square away is the following (lets use Haselwood as an example). It was written that he signed GIA paperwork with multiple schools (or at least was going to)...

The way that snippet from the rulebook was written implies that just signing the GIA would cause him to count as an initial counter for any school who he signed with. This seems unlikely though, as I can't imagine any school would take that signature and lose a spot were he to elect to go elsewhere... so either 1) under the new rules, schools likely aren't going to actually allow GIA paperwork or 2) these rules are somehow incomplete and GIA initial counter status wouldn't apply if the student didn't attend your school? Though if this is the case, it would seem to extend to kids that don't qualify either?

Mostly thinking out loud here, but just can't seem to square away the fact that a kid can sign GIA with more than one school *AND* the idea that just signing a GIA causes them to become an initial counter.

Edited by fibonaccisquared

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19 minutes ago, fibonaccisquared said:

Yeah, I understand the legal difference between the two... what I can't square away is the following (lets use Haselwood as an example). It was written that he signed GIA paperwork with multiple schools (or at least was going to)...

The way that snippet from the rulebook was written implies that just signing the GIA would cause him to count as an initial counter for any school who he signed with. This seems unlikely though, as I can't imagine any school would take that signature and lose a spot were he to elect to go elsewhere... so either 1) under the new rules, schools likely aren't going to actually allow GIA paperwork or 2) these rules are somehow incomplete and GIA initial counter status wouldn't apply if the student didn't attend your school? Though if this is the case, it would seem to extend to kids that don't qualify either?

Mostly thinking out loud here, but just can't seem to square away the fact that a kid can sign GIA with more than one school *AND* the idea that just signing a GIA causes them to become an initial counter.

I don't think any school would not let a player sign a GIA if it counted against their 25.. the reason being as you know we have had plenty of players sign with as many as 3 to 4 schools GIA requests while the player still hasn't committed to one school.  the only time it counts is when a player enrolls and receives benefits.. it is treated differently than an NLI when it comes to the 25 scholarship limit.  that's why only NLI is accepted while you can sign many GIAs.  whatever the rule states i know hazelwood is not costing us an initial counter in our 25.  

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4 minutes ago, SacFalcFan said:

I don't think any school would not let a player sign a GIA if it counted against their 25.. the reason being as you know we have had plenty of players sign with as many as 3 to 4 schools GIA requests while the player still hasn't committed to one school.  the only time it counts is when a player enrolls and receives benefits.. it is treated differently than an NLI when it comes to the 25 scholarship limit.  that's why only NLI is accepted while you can sign many GIAs.  whatever the rule states i know hazelwood is not costing us an initial counter in our 25.  

Right, which is why I don't think having Pickens sign Financial Aid paperwork would cost us an IC slot unless he qualifies. I have a feeling that rule is written in that way to account for athletes who don't sign an NLI and instead only sign financial aid paperwork. We are committed to holding a spot for them, but they are not required to select us... as such, if they fail to qualify and enroll elsewhere it should be treated similarly... at least from a purely logical standpoint that's the way I see it. Granted, the NCAA is rarely if ever completely logical in their approach.

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I will say, I worked in basketball where our signings rules were a little more cut and dry than Football, so while I might understand the hardline stuff, it does get to be more nuanced. Did some more research and the way the NCAA interprets it is obviously different than how it’s written (as seen above), where it means NLI counters, not just counters in general. So Fib was right earlier. My bad. 

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4 minutes ago, fibonaccisquared said:

Right, which is why I don't think having Pickens sign Financial Aid paperwork would cost us an IC slot unless he qualifies. I have a feeling that rule is written in that way to account for athletes who don't sign an NLI and instead only sign financial aid paperwork. We are committed to holding a spot for them, but they are not required to select us... as such, if they fail to qualify and enroll elsewhere it should be treated similarly... at least from a purely logical standpoint that's the way I see it. Granted, the NCAA is rarely if ever completely logical in their approach.

you are correct if financial aid paperwork is signed it does not count against our initial 25 counter.  it would only count if the player enrolls and receives benefits.  one reason why teams though want a player to sign an NLI is it (as atlbrave said) limits the player to said school for 1 year.  they will do that if there is a player who is very close to qualifying or it helps them if they place a kid in juco.  most juco's will make sure if a player has signed an nli with a school they only allow that school to recruit that player.  it's an unwritten rule per say, but it's something that juco staffs adhere to.  

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After skipping the visit a week ago, it is confirmed Houston, TX based OT and Texas commit Javonne Shepherd is on campus at UGA today.

I have no idea how we will finish this class lol

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47 minutes ago, Carter said:

After skipping the visit a week ago, it is confirmed Houston, TX based OT and Texas commit Javonne Shepherd is on campus at UGA today.

I have no idea how we will finish this class lol

i think he was in town yesterday and today and then is headed to alabama for the weekend.

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35 minutes ago, VA F.O. said:

Zach Evans in Athens for the weekend, as well as 5* Kelee Ringo

Meanwhile, CBs coming for Bigsby to SC

All the Bigsby stuff is coming from USCe people and we've seen how that goes. That said we're after some big time backs so some of these guys are going to end up elsewhere.

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It's really crazy to see the national reach that we are having. Had a 5 star CB in from Arizona. A five star and 4 star RB from Texas. Getting audiences with RB's from California  and TE's from Las Vegas. This is a bold new world guys.

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15 minutes ago, Ransack said:

It's really crazy to see the national reach that we are having. Had a 5 star CB in from Arizona. A five star and 4 star RB from Texas. Getting audiences with RB's from California  and TE's from Las Vegas. This is a bold new world guys.

Once we win it all, this will become the standard, but with a more consistent base of local state athletes than any other contenders

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