Falconsin2012

Our DC Next Year: allowed just 16 ppg

57 posts in this topic

And his name is Marquand Manuel.  I believe Manuel struggled with the middle of his defense going on IR.  Most young DC’s would have found 2018 taxing.  I guarantee he learned some tough yet valuable lessons.  Do I wish he brought more pressure: of course.  Is he perfect: no.  But here is my case for him.  Over the last 15 games where he has had a healthy Deion Jones to lead his defense, this is what his defense has surrendered, in order:

1. 20 points

2. 20 points

3. 7 points

4.  31 points

5.  20 points

6.  14 points

7.  17 points

8.  21 points

9.  23 points

10 10 points

11.  13 points (playoffs vs Rams)

12.  15 points (playoffs vs Eagles)

13.  18 points

14.  14 points

15.  10 points

For those not mathematically inclined, that’s just 16.8 ppg.  And we played Saints 3 times , SB champion twice, Rams, Seattle etc.  With our offense, this kind of defense is enough to win a Super Bowl.  I say bring him back.  Possibly Sark as well and see if continuity,  a good draft along with healthy bodies brings us a special 2019.

 

Edited by Falconsin2012

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27 minutes ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

I think you make some good points, but the issue I have is:  What happens if DJ gets hurt again next year?  He'll utilize his completely soft schemes, and we'll be right where we were this year. I don't want him back, but I'm not going to be overly sad if he does come back.  

Assuming worst case scenarios in is not an ideal tactic.  When healthy, this is what his defense produces on the field.  16.8 ppg over 15 games.  It’s enough for me

red falcon and Stryka like this

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On 12/27/2018 at 0:07 PM, Boise Falcon Fan said:

I think you make some good points, but the issue I have is:  What happens if DJ gets hurt again next year?  He'll utilize his completely soft schemes, and we'll be right where we were this year. I don't want him back, but I'm not going to be overly sad if he does come back.  

+1.....your defensive scheme can't be "hope DJ doesn't get hurt"

Edited by #55
wrong spelling

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Not making significant injuries a scapegoat but the F O not making the move to get a big earth mover DT, Vic not playing to his potential, TD and DQ not having strong depth and Alford not having a good year, coupled with the injuries we should give him another year.

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I don't have a problem with giving Manuel one more year, considering all the injuries we had on defense.  I think he made the most of what he had, with a respectable 16.9 points per game allowed. 
I'm just not a fan of his soft defense (prevent, if you like), and loved it when we started loading the box and getting after the QB in these last few games! 
I will say this, though, if he's replaced with what's considered an upgrade, I won't be that disappointed to see him go...


 

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9 minutes ago, FalconJim said:


I don't have a problem with giving Manuel one more year, considering all the injuries we had on defense.  I think he made the most of what he had, with a respectable 16.9 points per game allowed. 
I'm just not a fan of his soft defense (prevent, if you like), and loved it when we started loading the box and getting after the QB in these last few games! 
I will say this, though, if he's replaced with what's considered an upgrade, I won't be that disappointed to see him go...


 

I agree, he should be more aggressive.  But as fans we can’t peek behind the curtains.  We don’t know limited his playbook was with so many leaders stripped away overnight.  

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18 minutes ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

Am I missing something?

Jones played all 17 games last year + 5 this year (4 if you don't include the Eagles game he got hurt in)

So why are you only doing the last 15? I am guessing the other 6-7 games hurt his averages

I’m using a trend since the Patriots game last year.  That’s when our defense took shape.  I included the Eagles this year. Did not include his first 2 weeks back as he was getting his legs back again.  

But if you want to include the 26 points vs Ravens and 34 vs Packers, it brings his ppg average up to a whooping 18.2 ppg.  Still good enough.

And if you want to include all 2017 and all 5 games this year, the average is 18.3 ppg

Edited by Falconsin2012

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8 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

I’m using a trend since the Patriots game last year.  That’s when our defense took shape.  I included the Eagles this year. Did not include his first 2 weeks back as he was getting his legs back again.  

But if you want to include the 26 points vs Ravens and 34 vs Packers, it brings his ppg average up to a whooping 18.2 ppg.  Still good enough.

And if you want to include all 2017 and all 5 games this year, the average is 18.3 ppg

Gotcha. That makes sense, and honestly didn't drop the averages much. My biggest issue with him is how long QBs have to throw nearly every down. I know he can't make our pass rushers get pressure but I have seen teams with less talented fronts constantly in teams backfield. He is way too timid to blitz or get creative. 

I also attribute our piss poor tackling and angles to him. Not all on him, But as the DC when you see your guys constantly missing tackles and taking the wrong angle you would think he would get that fixed.

Edited by PriMeTiiMe

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1 minute ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

Gotcha. That makes sense, and honestly didn't drop the averages much. My biggest issue with him is how long QBs have to throw nearly every down. I know he can't make our pass rushers get pressure but I have seen teams with less talented fronts constantly in teams backfield. He is way too timid to blitz or get creative. 

I also attribute our piss poor tackling and angles to him. Not all on him, But as the DC when you see your guys constantly missing tackles and taking the wrong angle you would think he would get that fixed.

^ This. 

Manuel needs to go. I can forgive losses because of injuries. I can’t forgive losses due to lack of gameplanning/scheming. A good DC is able to maneuver pieces in a way that makes them at least serviceable. 

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1 hour ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Assuming worst case scenarios in is not an ideal tactic.  When healthy, this is what his defense produces on the field.  16.8 ppg over 15 games.  It’s enough for me

Prepare for the worse. I kinda feel the same way as you. To me though it was the constant lack of pressure. I could have completed a few passes facing our rush. I think he may have not given the replacements enough credit and was playing way too soft at times. I think we should only consider what we did against good teams. Those are the ones we have to beat to win a championship. 

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2 hours ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

Am I missing something?

Jones played all 17 games last year + 5 this year (4 if you don't include the Eagles game he got hurt in)

So why are you only doing the last 15? I am guessing the other 6-7 games hurt his averages

Solid post...

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1 hour ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

Eh. Manual isn't aggressive enough. People keep pointing to points allowed per game. But the team still finished 13th in sacks, 17th in forced fumbles, and 29th in interceptions in 2017. Pretty weak

Wed definitely need more turnovers...

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Marquand Manuel is only in his second season as a DC, and has been DQ's protege since Florida. The defenses we've seen so far under MM and DQ are better than any other defense I've ever seen us field. It's funny how quickly people get used to the status quo. 

Our team was absolutely riddled with injuries in every level of our defense, and a majority of those injuries were to our best players on the team. You don't just pull another Grady Jarret off the bench, you don't just promote another Deion Jones from the practice squad. These guys are serious talents that you literally build an entire defense around and that other teams scheme to work around them. People claiming we should have better depth are being unrealistic.

MM is gonna be around for a minute, and that's a good thing because I think he's still got a lot of room to grow. Our team lost a lot of spirit this season from all of our leaders getting hurt and it's been great to see the defense coming back around. I'm greatly encouraged by the adjustments we've made so far as all the blitzing and changing up personnel. We're gonna end the season on a high note and it's going to carry into next season and that's more important than drafting a few spots higher.

Edited by ATLskinjob

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5 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Assuming worst case scenarios in is not an ideal tactic.  When healthy, this is what his defense produces on the field.  16.8 ppg over 15 games.  It’s enough for me

 

5 hours ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

I think you make some good points, but the issue I have is:  What happens if DJ gets hurt again next year?  He'll utilize his completely soft schemes, and we'll be right where we were this year. I don't want him back, but I'm not going to be overly sad if he does come back.  

If we lose our best players we will lose no matter who is coaching unless it's Bill Bellicheck.

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54 minutes ago, ATLskinjob said:

Marquand Manuel is only in his second season as a DC, and has been DQ's protege since Florida. The defenses we've seen so far under MM and DQ are better than any other defense I've ever seen us field. It's funny how quickly people get used to the status quo. 

Our team was absolutely riddled with injuries in every level of our defense, and a majority of those injuries were to our best players on the team. You don't just pull another Grady Jarret off the bench, you don't just promote another Deion Jones from the practice squad. These guys are serious talents that you literally build an entire defense around and that other teams scheme to work around them. People claiming we should have better depth are being unrealistic.

MM is gonna be around for a minute, and that's a good thing because I think he's still got a lot of room to grow. Our team lost a lot of spirit this season from all of our leaders getting hurt and it's been great to see the defense coming back around. I'm greatly encouraged by the adjustments we've made so far as all the blitzing and changing up personnel. We're gonna end the season on a high note and it's going to carry into next season and that's more important than drafting a few spots higher.

Good post...I also agree that Sunday will be telling.  Hold the Bucs under 24 points and we are trending how we want heading into the off season 

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