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PriMeTiiMe

Best QB Season for a team under .500?

114 posts in this topic

69.3% // 4,546 Yards // 8.06 YPA // 36 TDs (33 Pass, 3 Rush) // 6 INTs // 108.5 QB Rating

With one game to go he will finish just shy of 5,000 passing yards while having a chance at getting 40 TD's. Doing all this while being the most pressured QB in the NFL and having been sacked 41 times, Having the 27th ranked rushing offense and the 27th ranked Defense. Team has 17 drops and the Coaching at all facets of the game is terrible. We probably have the worst return special teams in the league giving us horrendous starting field position every game of every year. The play-calling has not been much better. Started off okay after the Philly game but from Cleveland to now its been horrendous. How a coordinator does not know that a QB Sneak is an easy TD/First down when you only need 1 yard or less is beyond me. Then of course the injuries all over the board to key players has not helped.

Simple Question, Is this the best QB season ever for a team that will be finish under .500? I know the most popular answer will be one of the Drew Brees 7-9 seasons (He had 5 of them w/ the Aints) but if you look at all his numbers from any of those seasons I don't think their better than Ryan's numbers this year (Keep in mind Ryan still has 1 more game to play)

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The bad return game you mentioned is part of the reason his total yards are somewhat inflated.

I am not giving Ryan a total pass on the play calling. Matt has enough clout to call his own audibles and make some situational calls. He just doesn't have that killer instinct. There isn't anything wrong with being Mr Nice Guy if you have a Shanahan or Sean Payton calling your offense - unfortunately we are 2 years removed from this.

Bottom line is there are things you can do to make up for weak aspects of your team. Our O-line "Looked" much better with Shanahan as our OC, because he made the right calls to account for it.

 

There is no way we should have a losing season with all of the talent we have on this team - especially offensively. We should be outscoring teams left and right. We all know what happened to our defense, but we still have 3 highly (1 of which is supremely) talented WR's, an above average TE, one of the fastest RB's in the league with great hands, a top 10 QB and we can't outscore other teams? The Browns? The Bengals?

Ryan may statistically be having a great season, but the biggest stat is winning and I will not make excuses for him because there aren't any.

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11 minutes ago, Falcon Man™ said:

Ryan may statistically be having a great season, but the biggest stat is winning and I will not make excuses for him because there aren't any.

So, with all of those 7-9 seasons, Brees must suck then, right?

Winning is a team stat, not a QB stat.  You can have a crap QB on a good team and win a Superbowl.  (Trent Dilfer)  You can have one of the best QB's of all time and never win a Superbowl.  (Dan Marino) 

Matt Ryan is statistically one of the best ever, but has never played with a defense that pulls its own weight.  His offensive lines, throughout his career, have been suspect.  The one year where he had a somewhat decent OL, he went to the Superbowl, despite the defense being unable to play with any consistency.

Maybe when Ryan finally retires, and the team goes back to being a perennial loser, fans will finally appreciate what they had in this guy.

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2 minutes ago, robertap said:

Winning is a team stat, not a QB stat.  You can have a crap QB on a good team and win a Superbowl.  (Trent Dilfer)  You can have one of the best QB's of all time and never win a Superbowl.  (Dan Marino) 

Exactly.

Case in Point:
64.7% // 4,095 Yards // 7.74 YPA // 20 TDs // 12 INTs // 91.4 QB Rating
69.3% // 4,546 Yards // 8.06 YPA // 36 TDs // 6 INTs // 108.5 QB Rating

Option 1 went 10-6 and won a playoff game. 2017 Matt Ryan
Option 2 is currently 6-9. 2018 Matt Ryan

It's a team game and right now Ryan's team is TERRIBLE

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44 minutes ago, Falcon Man™ said:

The bad return game you mentioned is part of the reason his total yards are somewhat inflated.

I am not giving Ryan a total pass on the play calling. Matt has enough clout to call his own audibles and make some situational calls. He just doesn't have that killer instinct. There isn't anything wrong with being Mr Nice Guy if you have a Shanahan or Sean Payton calling your offense - unfortunately we are 2 years removed from this.

Bottom line is there are things you can do to make up for weak aspects of your team. Our O-line "Looked" much better with Shanahan as our OC, because he made the right calls to account for it.

 

There is no way we should have a losing season with all of the talent we have on this team - especially offensively. We should be outscoring teams left and right. We all know what happened to our defense, but we still have 3 highly (1 of which is supremely) talented WR's, an above average TE, one of the fastest RB's in the league with great hands, a top 10 QB and we can't outscore other teams? The Browns? The Bengals?

Ryan may statistically be having a great season, but the biggest stat is winning and I will not make excuses for him because there aren't any.

so much fail

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13 minutes ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

Exactly.

Case in Point:
64.7% // 4,095 Yards // 7.74 YPA // 20 TDs // 12 INTs // 91.4 QB Rating
69.3% // 4,546 Yards // 8.06 YPA // 36 TDs // 6 INTs // 108.5 QB Rating

Option 1 went 10-6 and won a playoff game. 2017 Matt Ryan
Option 2 is currently 6-9. 2018 Matt Ryan

It's a team game and right now Ryan's team is TERRIBLE

But..but...QB's carry teams!

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This is a hard question to answer given how QB stats have changed over the last few decades (accuracy has gone up, interceptions way down).  Marino went 6-10 in 1988 but led the league in completions-354 and yards-4434.  He also had an 8-8 record in 1986 and led league in completions-378, TDs-44, and yards-4746.

Others like Boomer Esiason, Warren Moon, and even Philip Rivers recently have done pretty good while their team has been bad.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MariDa00.htm

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10 minutes ago, jlrfalcon said:

This is a hard question to answer given how QB stats have changed over the last few decades (accuracy has gone up, interceptions way down).  Marino went 6-10 in 1988 but led the league in completions-354 and yards-4434.  He also had an 8-8 record in 1986 and led league in completions-378, TDs-44, and yards-4746.

Others like Boomer Esiason, Warren Moon, and even Philip Rivers recently have done pretty good while their team has been bad.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MariDa00.htm

Marino threw 23 INTs in each of those seasons you mentioned.  That's a huge number.  If Matt Ryan threw 23 INTs in a season, Falcons fans would lose their mind.

Yes there are QBs that have had really good stats in losing seasons.  I don't know that there are many QBs with the overall performance that Ryan has put up this year with a losing season though. 

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Maybe Dan Fouts in 84.  Only played 13 games, but would have finished with 4,700 yards.  Did have 13 interceptions though.  But 4,700 yards in 1984?  Unheard of by anyone not named Dan Fouts...still the most under appreciated player ever.

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20 minutes ago, jay1k2 said:

But..but...QB's carry teams!

lol.

They certainly can elevate a team but theirs very few in history that are like Brady or P. Manning where if that guy is your QB you won't have a losing season. Ryan never will be in that category and their are very few all-time that are.

Brees is spoken as one of the best QBs ever yet he has 8 seasons at .500 or worse. 

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1 minute ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Maybe Dan Fouts in 84.  Only played 13 games, but would have finished with 4,700 yards.  Did have 13 interceptions though.  But 4,700 yards in 1984?  Unheard of by anyone not named Dan Fouts...still the most under appreciated player ever.

Great candidate. This was a legit question and that's a great one I did not think of.

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4 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Maybe Dan Fouts in 84.  Only played 13 games, but would have finished with 4,700 yards.  Did have 13 interceptions though.  But 4,700 yards in 1984?  Unheard of by anyone not named Dan Fouts...still the most under appreciated player ever.

He actually threw 19 TDs and 17 INTs though. 

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46 minutes ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

Exactly.

Case in Point:
64.7% // 4,095 Yards // 7.74 YPA // 20 TDs // 12 INTs // 91.4 QB Rating
69.3% // 4,546 Yards // 8.06 YPA // 36 TDs // 6 INTs // 108.5 QB Rating

Option 1 went 10-6 and won a playoff game. 2017 Matt Ryan
Option 2 is currently 6-9. 2018 Matt Ryan

It's a team game and right now Ryan's team is TERRIBLE

The players are mostly average to good/excellent, but we have pretty much the worst coaching staff and coordinators in the NFL.

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Just now, Peyton said:

He actually threw 19 TDs and 17 INTs though. 

That was so long ago that I am mixing up seasons myself. His 4700 yard season they were 11-5 and he threw 30 TDs. (a ton of INTs too). 

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1 minute ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

lol.

They certainly can elevate a team but theirs very few in history that are like Brady or P. Manning where if that guy is your QB you won't have a losing season. Ryan never will be in that category and their are very few all-time that are.

Brees is spoken as one of the best QBs ever yet he has 8 seasons at .500 or worse. 

I don't think think Brady has never had a losing season because of him. More so that he has a great head coach that knows how to build a competent defense and team year after year.

We've had several wins coached away. 

Tom Brady has never had a **** defense and suspect olines year after year.

65.4% // 4,105 Yards // 7.64 YPA // 25 TDs // 11 INTs // 95.4 QB Rating - Tom Brady. Team record 10-5

69.3% // 4,546 Yards // 8.06 YPA // 36 TDs // 6 INTs // 108.5 QB Rating - Matt Ryan. Team record 6-9

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1 minute ago, PokerSteve said:

The players are mostly average to good, but we have pretty much the worst coaching staff and coordinators in the NFL.

When healthy maybe.

Our O-Line is in shambles which completely destroys the run game and puts Ryan under constant pressure. And Our defense has regressed badly. This team has a lot of work to do this offseason. God forbid we lose Grady.

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33 minutes ago, Peyton said:

He actually threw 19 TDs and 17 INTs though. 

Good catch.  Over 1:1 TD/INT was really good back then. Consider Stabler had more interceptions than touchdowns and Bradshaw was 1:1

 

Fouts ‘81 season is still one of the best seasons ever and the genesis of modern quarterback play IMO

4,800 yards, 33 touchdowns and 17 interceptions.  

 

Edited by Falconsin2012

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9 minutes ago, likeriver said:

To make it more quantifiable I bet no other qb has come close to 33 TDs/6 INTs while going 6-9

You can’t really use that stat because nobody has ever done that on winning or losing teams until recently.  You could literally stab receivers mid route without getting a flag in the 70’s & 80’s

Edited by Falconsin2012
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Just now, Falconsin2012 said:

You can’t really use that stat because nobody has ever done that on winning or losing teams until recently.  You could literally stab receivers mid route without getting a flag in the 70’s & 80’s

1978 was the year the rules were changed. Offenses have just gotten more sophisticated and harder to stop.  Officials still let defensive backs get away with all kinds of grabbing.

It is true though, TD to INT ratios have gone way up.  Offenses are winning.

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1 hour ago, Falcon Man™ said:

The bad return game you mentioned is part of the reason his total yards are somewhat inflated.

I am not giving Ryan a total pass on the play calling. Matt has enough clout to call his own audibles and make some situational calls. He just doesn't have that killer instinct. There isn't anything wrong with being Mr Nice Guy if you have a Shanahan or Sean Payton calling your offense - unfortunately we are 2 years removed from this.

Bottom line is there are things you can do to make up for weak aspects of your team. Our O-line "Looked" much better with Shanahan as our OC, because he made the right calls to account for it.

 

There is no way we should have a losing season with all of the talent we have on this team - especially offensively. We should be outscoring teams left and right. We all know what happened to our defense, but we still have 3 highly (1 of which is supremely) talented WR's, an above average TE, one of the fastest RB's in the league with great hands, a top 10 QB and we can't outscore other teams? The Browns? The Bengals?

Ryan may statistically be having a great season, but the biggest stat is winning and I will not make excuses for him because there aren't any.

"He just doesn't have that killer instinct."  That is a terrible take.  I would argue that he is one of the most competitive players in the league.  Not just QB's, players!  This guy has the desire to be the best and to win. He is not the problem...

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1 hour ago, The Great American said:

Let's keep this Ryan's stats on the down low.  League officials could hear about this and issue a random drug test. 

 

100%.  These "Random" test are a complete joke, and they make the league look bad.

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1 hour ago, robertap said:

So, with all of those 7-9 seasons, Brees must suck then, right?

Winning is a team stat, not a QB stat.  You can have a crap QB on a good team and win a Superbowl.  (Trent Dilfer)  You can have one of the best QB's of all time and never win a Superbowl.  (Dan Marino) 

Matt Ryan is statistically one of the best ever, but has never played with a defense that pulls its own weight.  His offensive lines, throughout his career, have been suspect.  The one year where he had a somewhat decent OL, he went to the Superbowl, despite the defense being unable to play with any consistency.

Maybe when Ryan finally retires, and the team goes back to being a perennial loser, fans will finally appreciate what they had in this guy.

Very well stated...

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